Blue Draw Ropes but Not for FTTP?

Does anyone know if Openreach use blue draw ropes for purposes other than delivering FTTP?

There is a duct coming out of the footpath about 30m from my house. The cable running from this duct (terminating at a nearby DP mounted on a wall) has a short blue rope looped around it at the base. The blue rope has been there since before I moved in a year ago and it's pretty grotty.

I've been expecting OR to make FTTP available at my address for the last 6 months. I haven't seen any civils being done on my part of the street; it occurred to me that perhaps the work was completed a while back but the PON hasn't gone live yet. Most of the nearby properties can get FTTP now and I know where their CBTs are. I'm wondering if 'mine' is in the footway box that feeds the roped duct.

Any thoughts welcome. Many thanks!

I think blue polypropylene draw rope is the universal standard for pulling just about *any* cabling by just about anyone through ducts isn't it...? 😂

I wouldn't know! There are lots of ducts around here that don't have any visible draw rope; I thought maybe the blue colour had become a de-facto standard for pulling fibre. A bit like how pavement markings can be coloured for specific utilities.

Anyway, thanks for the reply. Helpful to learn it's probably generic.

Unfortunately in your case it couldn't be any more generic and there is certainly no NJUG colour coding scheme for draw ropes as there is for underground service ducts, pipes etc.

Have you looked at what the Openreach and BT Wholesale checkers report for your property in relation to FTTP?

They use them for anything. There's a blue rope in my duct along with the copper cable, it's been there since the house was built 30 years ago.

What sort of property is this, could it be a wayleave issue?

Yes, the Openreach checker has me in scope for FTTP. The BTW checker shows ADSL only.

I have contacted the OR Fibre Enquiries team a few times. This time last year, Openreach expected FTTP to be available by October 2021. Then last summer they told me I had been descoped entirely, then in November they told me it should be available from February 2022.

Lots of properties nearby went live in the second half of last year but I haven't seen any activity since.

I feel like I'm in limbo at the moment (not an uncommon situation, I know). Just knowing one way or the other would be helpful because I'll stick a 4G antenna on my roof if FTTP isn't coming.

If you’re happy to put up your street and postcode, some kind souls here may be able to shed some light on the matter.

It's a house accessed by a short public footpath that branches off the main street. The existing copper line is ducted all the way from my house, under the footpath and back to the street. Many properties on the street are served by wall-mounted CBTs (my house isn't the only exception - I'm part of a small cluster without FTTP at the moment).

I don't think there would be a wayleave issue if the fibre takes the same route as my existing copper line. However, if OR want to run the fibre up the footpath along the adjacent property's exterior wall then I imagine they would need permission for that? Or maybe it's a matter of getting permission to install another CBT on someone's wall.

My postcode only comprises a couple of addresses so I'd feel iffy sharing it on the thread.

If any such kind soul is inclined to invite me to PM them then I would be extremely grateful.

Thanks for your replies, Pheasant.

In reply to a post by sjmonday:

I feel like I'm in limbo at the moment

So what have you been doing regards broadband up to this point? I am sure like many others you want to know exactly when its coming but don't get yourself into a position where you start believing you're in limbo as the solution is to carry on with your existing plans and if FTTP comes along then happy days.

I have a Huawei B535 4G router and an unlimited data sim. I don't have an active ADSL connection as 4G is marginally faster (7-14Mbps), although the 4G speed can plummet when my town is busy at the weekends.

I hear what you're saying. Getting an external 4G antenna installed to squeeze the most out of my cellular data connection is my plan if FTTP isn't coming, but it would be a shame to make that investment only to have FTTP go live in the coming months.

In reply to a post by sjmonday:

It's a house accessed by a short public footpath that branches off the main street. The existing copper line is ducted all the way from my house, under the footpath and back to the street. Many properties on the street are served by wall-mounted CBTs (my house isn't the only exception - I'm part of a small cluster without FTTP at the moment).

I don't think there would be a wayleave issue if the fibre takes the same route as my existing copper line. However, if OR want to run the fibre up the footpath along the adjacent property's exterior wall then I imagine they would need permission for that? Or maybe it's a matter of getting permission to install another CBT on someone's wall.

Just on nomenclature and how these matters are generally done. You may be confusing wall mounted customer service point (CSP) which are typically grey in colour with their black coloured CBTs (connectorised block terminal) counterparts - the latter are typically not mounted walls of houses (they are in a few limited circumstances) but mostly installed either inside footway chambers or on top of poles.

The CSP is the external connection point for a single dwelling. A CBT is effectively the fibre equivalent of a copper Distribution Point. It serves anywhere from 4 to 12 properties. A drop cable is installed from a CBT to the CSP to serve a single property. This can either be aerial or underground feed. If your copper comes in at either means then generally fibre will follow.

This what a footway mounted CBTs look like (not that you would see them typically). This is what pole mounted CBTs look like.

A CSP on the wall of a house typically looks like this. As the CSP is placed on private property (that of the customer) in a retrofit scenario Openreach will only install the CSP and the drop cable from the street once an order for an FTTP service has been placed by the customer. New build estates these days quite often already have fibre installed so the CSP is present before the occupants move in.

CBTs on the other hand are installed (generally speaking) on Openreach property - that is their poles or chambers. They don’t need anyone’s permission to do this. Wayleaves are required if they are required to mount their infrastructure on private property.

I've checked the reference pics you kindly shared and it is the case here that Openreach have mounted CBTs on property walls.

The 'main street' I referred is the town's High Street. There is a mixture of shops, flats and the odd house (incl. mine). The CBTs are generally installed above shop fronts and next to existing distribution points. Dropwires are routed along walls. There isn't a visible CBT covering the premises in my immediate vicinity, yet. Properties about 50m from me on either side have live FTTP and I can deduce the CBTs to which they're connected.

I obviously couldn't tell you why the CBTs have been installed on walls rather than in the plentiful footway boxes, but that is the approach OR seem to have taken.

Edited by sjmonday (Tue 01-Mar-22 08:59:37)

Interesting. You're not in Salisbury by any chance?

No, St Albans. I think our FTTP rollout is supposed to complete this year.

It seems CBTs mounted on property walls is not unusual, particularly on terraced streets and large subdivided houses.
See this thread with picture of one on a grade II listed building, tangled up with existing copper equipment. I bet Openreach didn't get Listed Building consent for that.

CBT on Wall

Yes I recall that post from Clive with the CBT on the old public records office in his home town. There have been some other folks unhappy with CBTs mounted on the walls of low rise MDUs, also recently posted at ISP review (link below). So yes mounting in this way is not exceptional.

I was aware Openreach had done something similar in Salisbury, but there they’d used different CBTs - a lower profile Corning unit rather than the standard type…

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/talk/threads/massive-cbt...

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

CBT on Wall

Yep, that's exactly what they look like in my part of town.

I'll send another enquiry to the Openreach fibre team now that their new go-live date of February has passed. I'll update this thread if I learn anything interesting.

Thanks for your replies, everyone!

There has been a plot twist.

The reply to my latest enquiry came from Openreach's 'MDU Desk', stating that I need to fill out a fibre interest form and to speak to the freeholder of the building.

This is a surprise since I live in a single-dwelling, detached house. I am also the owner and I know it has never been a MDU.

I replied by email explaining as much but I don't know if actually went to a mailbox. I'll try going the Twitter route if I don't hear anything back.

Openreach followed up with me after I messaged them on Twitter to explain I don't live in a MDU.

Firstly, the estimated start date for the FTTP build for my address has been pushed back again (due to begin between July and September with an estimated duration of 'several months'). I'm actually pleased with this news because I now know it's worth upgrading my mobile broadband setup in the meantime.

Secondly, Openreach said the MDU thing wasn't wholly a mistake on their part. Although they acknowledged I don't live in a MDU and I shouldn't have been sent the fibre EoI forms, they said 'part of their network is internal' and therefore the build to my house will be done by their own MDU team. All the other FTTP rollout work I've seen going on in town has been done by local contractors. If OR need a first-party team to do my bit for some reason then it makes sense it's not running on the same timescale.

I'd be interested - purely out of curiosity - if anyone has thoughts on the meaning of 'internal' in this context. My house does have a DP in the utility cupboard, courtesy of its previous life as a small office. It all seems pretty simple if that's the reason, though; the cable comes in through a wide duct and I'm under the assumption fibre will take the same route if possible.

In reply to a post by sjmonday:

My house does have a DP in the utility cupboard, courtesy of its previous life as a small office.

Doesn’t sound like you’re a “vanilla” resi install - at least in the minds of OR

In reply to a post by sjmonday:

they said 'part of their network is internal' and therefore the build to my house will be done by their own MDU team.
...
I'd be interested - purely out of curiosity - if anyone has thoughts on the meaning of 'internal' in this context. My house does have a DP in the utility cupboard, courtesy of its previous life as a small office.

A DP is part of Openreach's network, and isn't normally inside the customer premises. That's what I imagine they mean by "Internal".

It'll be interesting to see what the MDU team do. If they follow the old topology then they might put a splitter node in your house, and you'll have a dedicated PON that you can provision up to 32 separate fibre services on

Hopefully they'll have more sense, and reconfigure your property as residential served by one port on a CBT outside somewhere.

Either way, this is a "non-standard" piece of design work.

Thank you, both.

Having my own PON would be a great curio but probably overkill for a household that just needs to make video calls and watch Netflix, haha. There's also barely space in the utility cupboard for even an ONT.

I'll let you know how OR end up building it, assuming I stay in scope.

Whole PON..? Easy there tiger. That would be very generous for a single connection. You may get 4/30 ths of one

I hope there will be a rethink once the guys turn up from Openreach MDU team (probably after some head scratching and a few phone calls), its not uncommon in some parts of the UK to have an internal copper DP in commercial properties but as its no longer a commercial property its now overkill. The fact that there is a separate team to do the work implies to me they are planning on doing something different than what they would for a typical residential property.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It'll be interesting to see what the MDU team do. If they follow the old topology then they might put a splitter node in your house, and you'll have a dedicated PON that you can provision up to 32 separate fibre services on

Following the old topology the OP would end up with a CBT in their property (that's the DP bit), not a Splitter Node.

There's very little chance they are installing a Splitter in someone's property, and not a hope in hell's chance that a single address will get an entire OLT port to themselves.

I've seen a fair few comms cupboards in MDU's. Some with multiple CBT's installed inside them. They have all had their a Splitter Nodes installed externally, underground, in a nearby jointbox.
I've never actually seen a Splitter Node installed internally, though I don't doubt it does happen.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Following the old topology the OP would end up with a CBT in their property (that's the DP bit), not a Splitter Node.

This is true. Still, a CBT inside the house would be an interesting addition

I have an internal CSP in our utility cupboard .
Remember you need twin power sockets in your utility cupboard, (I have 8 )

If you’re seeing multiple blue ropes in the area at the base of poles then chances are this is the FTTP build.

My Boss just had a leased line put in - for over a month they have blue rope going through where the cable went - so that's a good sign no?

In reply to a post by Username26:

My Boss just had a leased line put in - for over a month they have blue rope going through where the cable went - so that's a good sign no?

Not if you are waiting for FTTP. The leased line and FTTP networks are completely separate; someone in your area getting a leased line does not increase your chances of getting FTTP.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Username26:

My Boss just had a leased line put in - for over a month they have blue rope going through where the cable went - so that's a good sign no?

Not if you are waiting for FTTP. The leased line and FTTP networks are completely separate; someone in your area getting a leased line does not increase your chances of getting FTTP.

I never said it did. I said that if there is blue rope then there is a good chance they are waiting to put fibre through as they have already done some of the civil work - In his case it's because the CBT was not ready.

Candlerb’s point is that ‘blue rope’ isn’t a clear sign of FTTP … it is equally used for copper too.

It's just a rope in a pipe, it doesn't help to read into it too much. If someone puts a new rope in a duct then all you can deduce is that they are planning on pulling something through there in the future.