Ordering FTTP at a non-served address

Along similar lines to my recent post (SOGEA from Zen) for premises which have never had an Openreach/BT service, how do you order FTTP at premises where it should be available?

In this case FTTP has recently been installed in a village and is live. The premises on either side show up in the wholesale checker as 'Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues' and 'Single Dwelling Unit Business OH Feed with no anticipated issues' with 'FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.' for both.

However, for this one premises using the DN/ALID/UPRN Checker and entering the UPRN returns 'Data can not be returned for the UPRN Provided.'. Using the Address Checker, entering the postcode and selecting the premises returns 'Your address has been successfully matched; however we cannot determine ADSL availability at this address. Please try the Telephone Number or Postcode Checker.'.

Your service provider should be able to resolve this for you. They will have a process to deal with this sort of stuff with Openreach - getting "silver" addresses fixed to "gold".

If you get no joy with your chosen SP - and don't want to order service from a better one - then there's also an Openreach contact form here:
https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai...

Choose "I cannot get fibre but by neighbours can". No guarantees with this one though.

tdw42nd the

The OR form and checker is the way to go as they are the only people able to correct the database for FTTP. If you have a picture of the dwelling and the Pole attach this and quote the DP number and the addresses either side. In all the cases i know of they have been quick to add the missing address, ( week to 10 days, but on two occasions within a working day!)

The ISP has had a response "Unfortunately Openreach have rejected this request as the address is not registered with royal mail."

It is a community hall so doesn't receive mail, and they don't particularly want to. From an Openreach Address Management Best Practices document I found silver addresses come from multiple sources - PAF, OS AddressBase Premium, and Pointer (for NI) so the address exists in their system, they just won't change the availability flag. It seems like another case of one part of the organisation not knowing their own processes.

From the document:

NAD
The NAD system is the Openreach master database for England, Northern Ireland and Scotland addresses, and is maintained against addresses held by Royal Mail, Ordnance Survey and Pointer. Our Address Matching Dialogue Service sources its addresses from the NAD.

AddressBase Premium
Address Base Premium (ABP) is a geographic dataset of addresses, properties and land areas where services are provided. The data set is created from Local Authorities and Local Land & Property Gazetteers where the assignment of the UPRN (a unique identifier of each premise) is a statute obligation, Royal Mail Postal Files (PAF), VOA (Valuation Office Agency) data, IS (Improvement Service) data and OS (Ordnance Survey) data.
The data is collated, matched, quality checked and sent through a data hub to OS who then assign a geographical location to each record in the ABP data set. In addition to the circa 29m postal addresses (PAF) it includes another circa 8m addresses which are Objects Without Postal Addresses (OWPAs) e.g. substations, church halls, masts and Multiple Occupancies Without Postal Addresses (MOWPAs) e.g. a Victorian property converted into multiple flats but with one delivery point (front door).

In reply to a post by tdw42:

It is a community hall so doesn't receive mail, and they don't particularly want to.

But you say it has never had a telephone service?

As a result, it could be that no CBT port was reserved for it during FTTP planning - effectively excluding it from FTTP.

The Openreach "can't get fibre but my neighbours can" page is probably a reasonable way forward now. But please, *do* be up-front with them: explain that this is a community hall, not a regular house.

Things would have been more obvious if you'd said this in your original post.

Just an update on this.

After submitting an enquiry via the Openreach form there was a response two days later saying the matter had to be looked into further.
Updates every week or so along the lines of "apologies for the delay, we are experiencing unprecedented amounts of enquiries at the moment" for the next month.
The next response indicated the enquiry had been passed to a case handler, shortly followed by a request for pretty much the same information as initially provided.
An update six days later indicating there was an error in the records which was actioned to be updated.
A final update a week later stating the changes had been completed and fibre was available to order.

So the form works but it can take some time, over six weeks in this case.

The wholesale checker now shows 'FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered' but the install process is 'KCI2 Assure', almost certainly due to the service information 'Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed potential Line of sight problems'. I suspect this is due to the overhead mains distribution in the area so will have to see what issues that raises during installation.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

It is a community hall so doesn't receive mail, and they don't particularly want to.

I see you have sorted your issue.

However, you really should get the address of the Community Hall registered with the Royal Mail.

Their database is used for lots of purposes not just delivering mail.

https://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail/up...

In reply to a post by gt94sss2:

However, you really should get the address of the Community Hall registered with the Royal Mail.

Their database is used for lots of purposes not just delivering mail.

https://www.royalmail.com/personal/receiving-mail/up...

It shouldn't be, there are perfectly good databases for non-postal premises and other objects.

Unique Property Reference Numbers (UPRNs) are allocated by local authorities and Ordnance Survey.
Local authorities have the statutory permission to name and number every street and property in Great Britain and also allocate UPRNs to other objects.
Ordnance Survey identifies features in the landscape that might not have a ‘normal' address and includes them in its AddressBase products.

Openreach take data from multiple databases, to quote their Best practice guide to Address Management
"Address Matching is a pre-order Dialogue Service exposed to CPs which helps to streamline the ordering process by using addresses recognised by Openreach systems, or by creating temporary addresses. This dialogue service queries the Openreach NAD system and presents addresses known to Openreach and addresses in the Postal Address File (PAF), AddressBase Premium (ABP) or Pointer which are unknown to Openreach in order to identify whether a service request is against an existing known/matched or new address."
and
"Openreach maintains a version of the Postal and non-Postal addresses and displays updated addresses through the Address Matching Dialogue Services. Openreach receives and processes PAF updates 6 days a week from Royal Mail, and non-PAF updates every 6 weeks from Ordnance Survey / Pointer, with these updates exposed to our customers for both Gold and Silver addresses. Unique Property Reference Number (UPRN) and Site Classification attributes within an address are also processed and exposed every 6 weeks in line with updates from Ordnance Survey / Pointer."

So people in Openreach and at communication providers insisting on their being a PAF entry is incorrect, likely due to lack of training.

Presumably this sort of issue only crops up in the quite rare cases of certain non-residential properties, as you’re dealing with?

Or perhaps in the case of new resi subdivisions / new builds where the developer hasn’t followed due process and/or local authority has slipped up.

Yes, I suspect it will mostly be older non-residential premises and/or where data entry from original paper records has been done incorrectly, or as you say subdivisions or new builds where processes have not been followed.

As an aside I should have entitled this topic differently indicating it is 'non-residential premises which had never had a service' as 'non-served' has a specific meaning to Openreach per this reference "In the case of non-served premises such as street furniture e.g. traffic lights, street cabinets, lifts, ATM pods adjacent to or outside a premise, petrol station next to a supermarket, car park kiosks or gas governors which are contained within the ‘PremisesName’, we recommend that you also provide the exact postcode for urban areas and the nearest serving postcode for rural areas."