Strange FTTP role out issue & help

I have a question into what would be happening with the fibre rollout on my street in LL31.

All CBTs were installed back in January and all the subsequent work looks to have been completed so far.

The road is long and fed from two directions,

The bottom half of the road is fed all overhead and went live to order this week as per the wholesale checker.

The top half of the road is also overhead but hasn’t gone live to order yet.

I’m sitting in the “middle” of all this as it appears, my DP currently serves about 8 copper lines off the top of the pole about numbers 74-86.

Numbers 74 & 76 can order FTTP but numbers 78-86 of which I am one can’t order. All served from the same DP and it has a CBT on it fed from the top of the road which isn’t active to order yet.

The same is happening on the odd numbered side of the road as well from the same DP. Numbers 41 and 43 can order but number 45 can’t.

It all seems rather odd to me. I’ve done some checking on the router the top half of the road is fed from and that street can all order apart from the last two houses. So it looks like there’s a big stretch that can’t order while people around them can.

I can post link to maps and wholesale checkers below

https://ibb.co/ysd2pCN - can order FTTP

https://ibb.co/3dNBTK3 - can’t order FTTP

Any insights into this would be greatly appreciated.

Edited by jlj (Fri 27-May-22 09:30:21)

Well you have possibly been mis labelled in the database.

Use this contact form stating that neighbours can get FTTP but you can't.

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai...

They should reply in 2 or 3 days either telling you the database will be updated or why you have been missed.

Edited by kommando (Fri 27-May-22 09:18:04)

Thanks for getting back, I’ve just filled out the form and done some more digging.

It appears in the even side of the road it’s not live all the way from 78 - 100 but live to order on the wholesale checker either side I of that.

I’d like to think that they wouldn’t of got a third of the street mislabelled in a database but who knows.

In reply to a post by jlj:

I’d like to think that they wouldn’t of got a third of the street mislabelled in a database but who knows.

It is quite possible. The fact that your property shows FTTP on Demand 330/50 (rather than 1000/220) means that your database record hasn't been updated for several years.

It could simply be that they haven’t finished. Despite the fact the visible infrastructure (CBTs etc) has been in place for a while, there are other less visible elements could remain to be done, including exchange work. Might be a little while longer.

Hope ypu quoted the DP number off the pole so that it is easy for them to see you are all off the same DP.

Thanks, I know there still could be work to do. I think I’ve got a grasp on how the build has been going and processes involved.

I had a chat with the openreach chap in the road saying he was doing aggregation nodes about 8 weeks ago. (Obviously we don’t see what happens after this).

What’s confused me in this instance is some off the same pole/DP can order and some can’t, from my checks it looks like on the evens 78-100 can’t order but 76 down to 2 can order. But number 74 and 76 are from the same pole/DP as me.

So something doesn’t look right as surely everyone in the same DP would be in the same situation

I did explain we were on the same DP/Pole but didn’t think to include the DP number in the block of text on the form.

Rather short sighted of me that really. Bet I can’t update it now either.

It doesn’t seem to be making any sense unfortunately as it’s all overhead as well, I know the nodes have been done as spoke to OR when they did it and so much around it is live as well.

So hoping it’s a simple data issue.

Are there enough CBT ports on that pole to serve all the properties which get their copper connections from that pole?

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Are there enough CBT ports on that pole to serve all the properties which get their copper connections from that pole?

Yea no dramas there, it’s an 8 port CBT and 8 houses off the copper side currently but only 2 can order Fttp so must be a simple mistake somewhere

Bear in mind that each port on the CBT has it's own fibre link back to the splitter. Could be some problems in those links that limit the number of live ports. It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that some of the ports are on different splitters and there is an OLT port capacity issue back at the exchange.

One does have to wonder if it would have been cheaper to put the splitters in the CBT saved a whole bunch of splicing costs at the expense of more OLT ports.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

It's not beyond the bounds of possibility that some of the ports are on different splitters and there is an OLT port capacity issue back at the exchange.

No CBT should ever be fed from multiple splitters for any reason. It would break Openreach's systems. When a PON is split the entire CBT is moved to the new tray.

In reply to a post by jabuzzard:

One does have to wonder if it would have been cheaper to put the splitters in the CBT saved a whole bunch of splicing costs at the expense of more OLT ports.

I assume this was considered by Openreach, then by other altnets and dismissed as the approach didn't make sense. In fact, just seen another poster inform that they tried this and stopped a while back.

I am not aware of any PON provider that either have splitter in CBT only or use multiple, cascaded splitters in their builds now.

In the case of XGSPON this would be even more of an issue as the 'standard' segment size for those is 64 premises passed.

Cascaded splitters would keep segment size sane but at the cost of more points of failure wiping out multiple customers. A fusion splice isn't even a 5 minute job and once done they're good for the foreseeable. Presumably offsetting this against costs of alternative approaches ensured Openreach, CityFibre, G.Network, Virgin Media and others took the approach they did. The only time the splitter is next to the CBT is when there is no CBT, but a cabinet with lines of SC connectors to plug into.

Edited by XGS_Is_On (Fri 27-May-22 19:11:51)

In one of the Openreach videos explaining their FTTP installations they specifically say they do not connect ports on the same CBT to different splitters. From this I presume that whilst 1:32 is the maximum split there may well be some splitters which are not fully utilised as a result.

The original BFT deployments used chained splitters but that was abandonded at least 6 years ago in favor of a single level split and intermediate joints between splitter and CBT as required.

This also allows CBT ports to be reallocated for EAD use by disconnecting a fibre in the splitter node and splicing it to a spare upstream fibre back to the aggregation node, and there to one of the P2P BAU spine fibres back to the exchange.

In reply to a post by tdw42:

In one of the Openreach videos explaining their FTTP installations they specifically say they do not connect ports on the same CBT to different splitters

And the obvious reason is it would be a nightmare for provisioning, because the ports on the CBT would not be interchangeable; things would go wrong if the engineer plugged into the "wrong" port on the CBT when connecting a new service.

You say it's only been a week or so since the first went live - when my estate of ~80 premises went live last Christmas oddly some of the houses went live on the BT Wholesale checker about 2 weeks before the rest.

It didn't really seem to align to multiples of 30/32 as in if a splitter was finished before the others (I know they are not always full) but not sure on CBTs as they are underground and I only payed close attention to mine.

Worth a regular check in case they get added.

In reply to a post by kommando:

Well you have possibly been mis labelled in the database.

Use this contact form stating that neighbours can get FTTP but you can't.

https://www.openreach.com/forms/fibre-broadband-avai...

They should reply in 2 or 3 days either telling you the database will be updated or why you have been missed.

Thanks for everyone’s help so far, it appears as if the plot thickens as this is the reply I’ve just had from openreach (in which I clear stated we were connected to the same pole/DP but didn’t supply the DP number unfortunately)

Thanks for your recent enquiry via the Openreach website about getting faster broadband.

I’ve?looked into?your enquiry and can see that the neighbours those are getting fibre to the premises(FTTP) services they might have different distribution point (DP) and your property is included in our one of the future roll out plan.

However, the great news is that we will have some fantastic connectivity options for your home. I can see the equipment you’re connected to is getting an upgrade. This will give you the option of ordering fibre to the premises(FTTP).

Our engineering work is due to start in the beginning of July 2022 and will take several months to complete. I’m sorry we can’t give you a more specific date at this time but once the work is completed you’ll be able to place an order with your chosen service provider.

We’d love to keep you up to date with our progress. To receive any future updates please go to our fibre checker, input your postcode, choose your address from the drop-down, then scroll past the availability information and complete the Gigabit Fibre form and we’ll update you once plans change www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband.

Openreach doesn’t provide phone, broadband or TV services directly to anyone so to get these services you’ll need to contact a service provider to find out about the packages they can offer you and the speeds that you’re likely to get.

I’ve opened another ticket on the same form quoting the DP number so hopefully that gets something moving.

As a further update

Below is a photo of the areas I’ve managed to get data on…

The link lines can all order and the yellow line can’t order. It seems very odd indeed,

https://ibb.co/52Gffcx

they might have different distribution point

And could not be bothered to check !!!

In reply to a post by kommando:

they might have different distribution point

And could not be bothered to check !!!

It certainly smells funny, I’ve replied to it and given them the DP number…

The map I posted seems to make it pretty clear everything around is live just a stretch of houses all with the same postcode not able to order.

Reads to me like they're coming back over the summer to in-fill

In reply to a post by kommando:

they might have different distribution point

And could not be bothered to check !!!

Google Maps: around 4 poles needing CBTs fitted along that stretch of road

Thanks for helping, all of those poles have CBTs fitted including mine which has two address next door live to order so that CBT must be live.

Two of them also have splitters fitted and work completed on them according to the chaps who did the work on them months ago… all CNTs have “tails” fully nailed down not just taped onto the poll like when they were working on them… will glad post pictures of the entire route tomorrow.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by kommando:

they might have different distribution point

And could not be bothered to check !!!

Google Maps: around 4 poles needing CBTs fitted along that stretch of road

First pole with the CBT on is mine the two line going across in front of the camera are able to order but everything else on the picture can’t order yet all from the same DP.

Streaming CBT is served from the Splitter over the road then the fibre goes overhead back up the road to three other poles all of which has CBTs installed.

https://ibb.co/Bg18r1M - Picture of poles CBTs and Splitter…

It honestly looks like a mistake as all visible signs show works complete, but who knows I suppose.

I suppose the issue could be the other way and the two neighbours shouldn’t be able to order and the mistake is that side and there is extra work needed.

Looks like a slight update to the database - No. 78 now showing as FTTPoD still but at 1000/200 speed, I'd keep checking over the next few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if it went available to order soon.

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

Looks like a slight update to the database - No. 78 now showing as FTTPoD still but at 1000/200 speed, I'd keep checking over the next few weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if it went available to order soon.

I’ve just seen that, thanks for pointing it out. I’ve checked lots of addresses on that yellow strip on the map I posted and they all have changed status so to speak in the checker.

I thought it only went to 1000/200 when it was a few days before being available.?

Hopefully my prodding has spotted something… maybe giving myself to much credit.

Have you ordered yet?

In reply to a post by adrenalize_:

Have you ordered yet?

I certainly have my good man, install due the last week of the month.

Want to be off work so I can assist (I mean pester) the engineer doing the install.

Should be easiest job he will have all day.

Not interested in any digital voice etc…

Currently have a vigor 130 and ASUS Wi-Fi 6 Router setup so just a case of using the existing whole for the cable and plugging in the ONT in place of the Vigor 130.

Job done

Nice. Enjoy 👍