FTTP providers who don't support voice services.

We have spoken many times on this forum about the flexibility of separating out broadband and voice services when migrating to FTTP but does anyone know what actually happens if you're with say Plusnet or Talk Talk with both a broadband and voice service and you want to migrate to a FTTP services with them? do they provide FTTP and cease both the FTTC and voice services?

I appreciate not everyone is interested in having a voice service but some people are and I'm curious to understand what happens with providers who support voice on FTTC but don't support voice on FTTP and what happens for those customers who are in contract and want to migrate to FTTP and still want to retain a voice service.

If I understand correctly, you're saying that:
* your FTTC+PSTN comes from a particular provider
* ...and you want to migrate to FTTP from the *same* provider (e.g. because you want to do an in-contract migration)
* ...but that provider doesn't offer voice over FTTP
* ...and you want to keep your voice number and move it to a VOIP provider

In that case, you'd have to talk to your existing provider, get them to explain what process they may or may not offer to you, and get *in writing* assurances that your phone number will not be lost (which may not help you much if they screw it up).

I think the best you can hope for is that they will offer to cease the FTTC whilst leaving the PSTN line in place, and move you onto a separate "voice line rental only" package for the PSTN - hopefully without a new long contract term. Then you can migrate and cease the PSTN as a separate activity.

If keeping your number is important, I'd go the other way: get the FTTP installed as a completely new service, running in parallel. Then once that's in place, migrate the PSTN number to a VOIP provider, which as a side effect will cancel both the PSTN line *and* the attached FTTC service.

This does mean that you will be paying for both FTTC and FTTP in parallel for a while (which may be a long time if you have a long FTTC contract) - but it ensures you don't lose your phone number.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

If I understand correctly, you're saying that:
* your FTTC+PSTN comes from a particular provider
* ...and you want to migrate to FTTP from the *same* provider (e.g. because you want to do an in-contract migration)
* ...but that provider doesn't offer voice over FTTP
* ...and you want to keep your voice number and move it to a VOIP provider

The assumption above are correct.

I'm asking as I'm trying to guide a few other people who are in this position, I have already managed to separate out my broadband and voice services but those who I'm helping haven't and won't go through the pain of running the two services in parallel. I was wonder if anyone else had gone through the process as I know before Plusnet started selling FTTP they would allow customers to move to the BT brand without penalty and wasn't sure if that was the case for those wanting to keep a voice service. As Talk Talk have been selling FTTP for a while now I was hoping someone on this forum may have had the experience of what they do in this scenario.

In reply to a post by dect:

I know before Plusnet started selling FTTP they would allow customers to move to the BT brand without penalty and wasn't sure if that was the case for those wanting to keep a voice service.

I'm sure Plusnet -> BT would be fine, as the BT FTTP service by default comes with voice.

It's Plusnet -> Plusnet FTTP and Talktalk -> Talktalk FTTP which could be problematic.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a thread here where someone had done this, but it was with Talktalk Business (who had kept the voice service on the copper) - and yet they still managed to cut it.

Ah yes, I think this was it:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4688986-talk...

I think we will see over time the demise of site based voice communication and in a few years home telephones will be something you’ll only see in Beamish or the Black Country Living museums.

Or possibly Cuckoo Oak exchange.

In reply to a post by spile:

I think we will see over time the demise of site based voice communication and in a few years home telephones will be something you’ll only see in Beamish or the Black Country Living museums.

Reminds me of the Orange launch advertising from 1994, "one day we will call people, not places".

In reply to a post by spile:

I think we will see over time the demise of site based voice communication and in a few years home telephones will be something you’ll only see in Beamish or the Black Country Living museums.

I think it will be as the older generations (me included) depart.

In reply to a post by Rhynchelma:

Or possibly Cuckoo Oak exchange.

🤣

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by spile:

I think we will see over time the demise of site based voice communication and in a few years home telephones will be something you’ll only see in Beamish or the Black Country Living museums.

Reminds me of the Orange launch advertising from 1994, "one day we will call people, not places".

Already made it that way here, VOIP on mobiles with a backup VOIP phone onsite (mainly because I am always on mute so never answer calls), not that there is much point because I am nearly always home when i get called and it runs over Virgin Media (Virgin is so reliable I had an hour of area outage this morning). I only get 3G in my area and its over utilised, its a real struggle if the fixed line network is down.

All 4 networks have warnings for my area saying overutilization "we are aware of the issue we will fix it" etc.
That message has been there for a solid 3 years.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It's Plusnet -> Plusnet FTTP and Talktalk -> Talktalk FTTP which could be problematic.

Totally agree thats why I was trying to find out if anyone has already gone down this path with either provider, I was hoping I could arm the people who I'm trying to help with the facts before they ring as I don't want to be interfering when they are on the call with Talk Talk or Plusnet.

I can't believe if you are already with one of these providers and want to go to FTTP (with them) you have to for go your voice service as that would be a barrier for some folk.

Edited by deleted (Tue 07-Jun-22 14:09:25)

I think you need to insist that they unbundle the FTTC from line rental, i.e. migrate FTTC to FTTP whilst leaving the PSTN service and copper line running. But that becomes a standalone service with its own price, and potentially a new contract.

Giganet explain this quite nicely in their FAQ:
https://www.giganet.uk/faq/phone-line-and-number/

Before BT did digital voice they used to leave the copper line for voice and move the broadband to FTTP. Do Openreach based providers that don't do voice of FTTP not do the same thing?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Before BT did digital voice they used to leave the copper line for voice and move the broadband to FTTP. Do Openreach based providers that don't do voice of FTTP not do the same thing?

Thats what we don't know for sure.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by dect:

I know before Plusnet started selling FTTP they would allow customers to move to the BT brand without penalty and wasn't sure if that was the case for those wanting to keep a voice service.

I'm sure Plusnet -> BT would be fine, as the BT FTTP service by default comes with voice.

It's Plusnet -> Plusnet FTTP and Talktalk -> Talktalk FTTP which could be problematic.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a thread here where someone had done this, but it was with Talktalk Business (who had kept the voice service on the copper) - and yet they still managed to cut it.

Ah yes, I think this was it:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/4688986-talk...

Yes that was me, never did get what I consider an explanation of why service was cut, the 'broken line' doesn't wash with me.
A bit of background for the OP. The reasons for the route I took where, wanting to get internet onto FTTP and ensure phone kept going in middle of pandemic (with limited OR home visits) in an area with very poor mobile service. Now the FTTP is installed I'm not too worried that at end of contract I can transfer to VoIP with minimal disruption.
A completely unexpected problem with my set up, we have always had a poor copper line, when it was FTTC the voice part would start crackling and internet would frequently drop, this was seen on ISP's stats and they would agree to send out OR to fix, now there is nothing showing 'frequent drops' and even when having a phone conversation with them when we both had problems hearing due to crackling, they don't think anything's wrong with line, as this is intermittent it's not getting sorted, sooner I'm out of contract and can go VoIP the better.

In reply to a post by dect:

We have spoken many times on this forum about the flexibility of separating out broadband and voice services when migrating to FTTP but does anyone know what actually happens if you're with say Plusnet or Talk Talk with both a broadband and voice service and you want to migrate to a FTTP services with them? do they provide FTTP and cease both the FTTC and voice services?

I appreciate not everyone is interested in having a voice service but some people are and I'm curious to understand what happens with providers who support voice on FTTC but don't support voice on FTTP and what happens for those customers who are in contract and want to migrate to FTTP and still want to retain a voice service.

With Plusnet FTTP - which has soft-launched for existing (FTTC or ADSL) customers only -if you take the FTTP service, your voice line and FTTC broadband will cease. There's no pathway to extract your landline voice number and port it out to another provider.

There's speculation that Plusnet may launch a 'digital voice' service in the future, but nothing solid. I think TalkTalk have a 'digital voice' solution currently being tested.

If you're an FTTC or ADSL customer with an ISP that doesn't support voice services on FTTP (or at least doesn't yet), then if you want to keep your landline number the easiest and most seamless way of doing so is to upgrade to FTTP with a provider that offers a 'digital voice' service.

Otherwise get FTTP installed as a new and seperate order (rather than an upgrade of your FTTC/ADSL line), then once up and running port your landline number to a VoIP provider which in turn will cease the FTTC/ADSL service as well. (At present this isn't possible with Plusnet, as FTTP is only available as an upgrade to existing customers.)

If you do the above, then care needs to be taken to ensure that the FTTP order is treated as a standalone order, rather than an upgrade of the existing FTTC/ADSL line - I think at least some providers assume it's an upgrade unless told otherwise.

In reply to a post by binary:

if you take the FTTP service, your voice line and FTTC broadband will cease.

So you're 100% sure their is no pathway for an existing Plusnet customer to keep their voice service when migrating to FTTP (either remaining on copper or migrating to the BT brand without penalty)?

The people I'm trying to help are not looking at extracting their voice service to a standalone VOIP provider, we are talking about people who were born during the second world war not those on here who want a more complexed setup. I want to give them the most straight forward solution as currently they are getting less than 1Mbps download

The current situation with Plusnet is just as @Binary states. There is a huge amount of confusion in the Plusnet forum where customers have ordered an upgrade to FTTP expecting to be able to port their phone number to VOIP. They are then told of that this can't be done and to cancel their order, by forum members and staff!

If Plusnet had given more thought to their half-baked FTTP introduction and allowed customers to create a new FTTP account while keeping the old account active it would have saved a lot of problems. They claim that new stand alone FTTP accounts will be offered some time soon but can't say when, .

OK thanks, I'll pop over to the Plusnet forum and take a look at the carnage

I should have gone to the Plusnet forum to begin with, the very first post I read from Gandalf (Plusnet Help Team) says

I'm afraid that due to the way our systems work, we can't upgrade your service to FTTP while keeping your landline number active or port it out. If you're wanting both then you'll need to move to another provider. We can waive termination charges if you choose BT or EE as that provider by calling our Customer Options Team on 0800 013 2632.

So the bold bit is a pathway I can confidently recommend to the people I am trying to help and it may help others who read this forum

I wonder if BT are intending to gradually kill off Plusnet. I moved to BT a couple of years ago when I needed FTTP but still have a cheap sim only phone deal with them.

I don't think so. Plusnet is BT's answer to Talktalk, and there's a *large* amount of business in that space - i.e. cheap as possible.

It is a bit perverse though that Plusnet's customer service is reputedly better than BT's.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

I don't think so. Plusnet is BT's answer to Talktalk, and there's a *large* amount of business in that space - i.e. cheap as possible.

It is a bit perverse though that Plusnet's customer service is reputedly better than BT's.

My understanding is, BT branded retail customers will be eventually be moved to the EE brand as that is considered a better brand than BT nowadays and they can combine mobile and broadband products.