Community Fibre install on exiting FTTP (Openreach)

Hey all,

I have an exisitng FTTP installation (originally FTTPoD, which after three 3 years became standard FTTP). I am currently with Zen and the service has been great. However I have been told we should be getting community fibre within the year and I was wondering, if I went with Community fibre, would they need to run their own fibre cable into my house or can they use the openreach cable?

so the cable running from the telephone pole outside my house to the inernet ONT etc.. I suspect the ONT would be replaced, but I dont see why they would need to run their own fibre cable, but you never know.

It’s a separate drop cable as they are completely independent fibre networks (although CF may use PIA to access Openreach pole and duct infra to get you)

New ONT etc.

Edit - all existing Openreach infra (drop cable and ONT) remains and shouldn’t be disconnected (however you can power down the ONT). It won’t be touched or used by any future CF based install.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 26-Jun-22 12:08:12)

In reply to a post by Snake:

I have an exisitng FTTP installation (originally FTTPoD, which after three 3 years became standard FTTP). I am currently with Zen and the service has been great. However I have been told we should be getting community fibre within the year and I was wondering, if I went with Community fibre, would they need to run their own fibre cable into my house or can they use the openreach cable?

They'd have to run their own fibre cable. They are not, as far as I know, allowed to re-use an existing Openreach drop fibre. In any case, the OR drop fibre has a plug that goes into the OR CBT, whereas altnets can use a different method (with or without connectors).

So most likely scenario is that they will pull their own drop fibre alongside the OR one. If the OR pole is at max capacity, then they might request permission (from OR) to remove the other one at the same time.

Personally I'd keep the OR ONT in place, even if powered off. You never know when you might need it again. Even if you don't, when it comes to sell the property, it could be a plus-point for a buyer that an OR ONT is already there.

Some recent limited permission (on a PoC trial basis) for AltNets to remove copper drops where there is a capacity constraint - but I don’t believe they are allowed to touch an existing Openreach FTTP drop cable.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/06/altnet...

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Snake:

I have an exisitng FTTP installation (originally FTTPoD, which after three 3 years became standard FTTP). I am currently with Zen and the service has been great. However I have been told we should be getting community fibre within the year and I was wondering, if I went with Community fibre, would they need to run their own fibre cable into my house or can they use the openreach cable?

Personally I'd keep the OR ONT in place, even if powered off. You never know when you might need it again. Even if you don't, when it comes to sell the property, it could be a plus-point for a buyer that an OR ONT is already there.

And as the ONT belongs to OR you are supposed to leave it if you move. Leaving it in situ with the fibre plugged in will keep the end the fibre in the green connector clean as well in case you decide to go back

They install separately and the cable will even have Community Fibre printed on it! My building doesn't have Community Fibre yet, it should go live soon.

However, last year the engineers were working in my building and inserting Community Fibre cables, I saw them cabling outside my floor and the cables had Community Fibre printed on them.

I don't have any other FTTP provider. But I do know from watching youtube videos of residential properties that had either Openreach FTTP along with either Community Fibre/Hyperoptic. There were separate ONT sockets for both of these FTTP providers on the walls.

Keep in mind that when you migrate from Zen (Openreach FTTP) you must separately cancel that before signing up to Community Fibre or any other Altnet provider that run their own cable. This applies for FTTC too, this will need to be cancelled separately when switching to an Altnet. Smooth migration is only possible on an existing Openreach FTTP network.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Keep in mind that when you migrate from Zen (Openreach FTTP) you must separately cancel that before signing up to Community Fibre or any other Altnet provider that run their own cable.

I would say: separately cancel your Openreach-based FTTP *after* your Community Fibre or Altnet FTTP is installed and working. Otherwise, if there's any problem with the installation, you will be without service!

There is a new cross-provider migration processing under development, which will make this happen seamlessly, but it won't be live until April 2023:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2021/09/ofcom-...

ah man, I had the fttp cable terminated in my loft comms room, so ill need to get community fibre to do the same, this wont be fun or easy - was hoping they could re-use the OR cable.

Definitely that's the right advice!
I'll certainly be doing that myself. Should Community Fibre go live, I'll first order and see how things are before cancelling TalkTalk.

I've heard instances where the service was showing as live and when a customer ordered they were then told the cabling works weren't fully complete.

I also had this experience myself last year in December, it initially showed that the service was available and I even received an email from one of the guys from Community Fibre saying it went live and to try and offer me a deal.

I said at that time that I was in a middle of the contract with TalkTalk due to end in February. Luckily for me, the service reverted back to "Coming Soon" only a few days later! I'm glad I didn't order, because if I did and the service didn't go live that would've been frustrating.

But yes, I was surprised when it was showing live because I didn't see any road works or any activity in my building at that time.

This time I'd have to keep an eye on this again! Also another thing to bear in mind that the lower tier packages of Community Fibre supply a Linksys Dual and Tri-Band router that only has 2 Gigabit Ethernet Ports.

Currently only the 1Gbps and 3Gbps package supply a router with 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports namely the Linksys WiFi 6 and Zyxel WiFi 6.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

another thing to bear in mind that the lower tier packages of Community Fibre supply a Linksys Dual and Tri-Band router that only has 2 Gigabit Ethernet Ports.

You can always connect a gigabit switch of your own. Something like Netgear GS110TP is very nice (SNMP, web and CLI management; PoE output on all ports) - although that's an old model, and some of the newer Netgear "smart" switches have dropped the CLI completely.

At the other extreme, you can pick up a 5-port unmanaged gigabit switch for less than £10.

Either way, having only 2 gigabit ports shouldn't be a major problem.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

another thing to bear in mind that the lower tier packages of Community Fibre supply a Linksys Dual and Tri-Band router that only has 2 Gigabit Ethernet Ports.

You can always connect a gigabit switch of your own. Something like Netgear GS110TP is very nice (SNMP, web and CLI management; PoE output on all ports) - although that's an old model, and some of the newer Netgear "smart" switches have dropped the CLI completely.

At the other extreme, you can pick up a 5-port unmanaged gigabit switch for less than £10.

Either way, having only 2 gigabit ports shouldn't be a major problem.

That's true. But that means I have to buy a new gigabit switch prior to the order of the service. It would be great if I know for certain that the router I'll receive has 4 gigabit ports to start with. Then I'll avoid having the hassle of buying a separate switch.

At home we have 3 computers and Satellite Receiver. If I end up receiving a router with just 2 Ethernet ports. We end up with no internet service for 1 of the computers. Then we have to rush to buy a switch or order online and wait for delivery, which is a hassle we don't want to face.

Netgear GS110TP is quite expensive at £200, I could buy a new gaming router with additional ports instead.

I think I'm going to opt for the Gigabit package with Linksys WiFi 6 to have the 4 ports instead. I'm ready to buy a new router anyway, for FTTP an investment for a new router may be worth it!

The little Ubiquiti 5-port gigabit (USW Flex Mini) switches are great bang for the buck around £25 or so. Manage using a browser or phone app over a free hosted cloud service. PoE powered on Port 1 or via USB. PoE output on other ports.

http://dl.ui.com/ds/usw-flex-mini_ds.pdf

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 28-Jun-22 09:58:21)

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

At home we have 3 computers and Satellite Receiver. If I end up receiving a router with just 2 Ethernet ports. We end up with no internet service for 1 of the computers. Then we have to rush to buy a switch or order online and wait for delivery, which is a hassle we don't want to face.

Amazon next-day delivery - assuming you can survive with one computer on wifi instead of ethernet for a day.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Netgear GS110TP is quite expensive at £200

It was about £100 when I bought mine, so I think this must be end-of-sale model and you're paying a premium to get it. They have plenty of newer models. It was just an example.

What router are you currently using? Could you temporarily turn off the DHCP on it and use it as a dumb switch when the ISP change happens?

In reply to a post by ian72:

What router are you currently using? Could you temporarily turn off the DHCP on it and use it as a dumb switch when the ISP change happens?

I'm currently using TalkTalk Wi-Fi Hub version SG4K100136 (Sagemcom FAST 5364) that has 4 gigabit Ethernet ports. I also have TalkTalks new WiFi Hub Black, which is a (Huawei DG8041W) that also has 4 gigabit ports.

But the problem is that they are locked to TalkTalk FTTC. I won't be able to use them for Community Fibre when they soon come. Not sure if it's possible to use them as a Switch. I have no experience of trying that.

Most of the ISPs on FTTC at least from my experience have 4 LAN ports. The only ISP that I came across with 2 ports is Now Broadband, which I hesitated to switch to. Sky also once were supplying the same router that Now Broadband currently use with 2 ports only but they have since upgraded to a new router to support 4 ports.

As long as you can turn off DHCP in the hub then you can use it just as a switch. You would need 1 of the ports to connect to the new switch giving you 3 extra ports to use. You may also want to turn off the wireless if you are going to use the wireless on the new hub.

This would at the minimum give you time to sort out a cheap gigabit switch if that is what you decide to do. Or, you could use it as a long term solution (although it may possibly use more electric than a basic switch).