Parents Consider move from FTTC to FTTP

I apologize if this is the wrong section.

I am asking these questions for my parents.

Currently they are with Plus.Net on FTTC top package upto 76Mbps they have anytime calls package as well (Mother refuses to use mobile and they have BT wireless phones 3 set which do the caller guad/screening etc as well)

Plus.Net deal expires Dec and everytime my parents come to renew they get screwed over price wise but due to not really understanding this they just take the deals if you can call them that.

CityFibre last year installed & activated the FTTP (Vodafone only provider)

The questions are

1. Will the landline phone number they have had for close to 50 years be able to be moved to FTTP?
2. will these phones still work including the screening function?
3. CityFibre wont answer this question when Vodafone exclusive deal expires or how long its for (NN3 9UY is postcode) strange why they refuse to even discus it other locations it was clear if 12-18 etc.
4. Another question CityFibre wont give an answer to the install area which was built around 30 years ago had ducts for cable/BT and points in the house for those (virgin had to re duct when taking over the cable and installed a point on path outside each home) the BT one will this be used to get the cable from the path to the home? other older areas around this one they installed like Virgin ports in the ground outside each house but not in this area..


Thank you for the help

CityFibre is completely separate infrastructure to OpenReach and therefore both can run in the same house without interfering with each other.

The reason I mention this is because your parents could keep a standard phone line rental with a provider (Pulse8 could be a good option for low cost rental and calls) and use CityFibre for the broadband.

If they want to use CityFibre for phone then I am not sure if Voda/CityFibre offer this themselves - their website suggests they do but it would require them to use the ISPs router (probably not an issue). They could choose to sign up for a VoIP service themselves, port the number over to the VoIP service and then get adapters that allow you to plug standard phones into a VoIP adapter to use the handsets. Take a look in the VoIP forum on here for more info and if you have specific questions around VoIP.

Can't answer question 3 for you. Question 4 is they will probably use the ducts if they can. It isn't the only way an altnet like CityFibre can deliver (they could install poles but I think this is much less likely with CityFibre than some other altnets). If the duct is Virgin's rather than OpenReach's then I am not sure if CityFibre have any agreement with Virgin to use their ducts.

Thanks for the reply.

I know CityFibre is separate to Openreach but they can share ducts right in areas which will only provide one service?

The phone lines will all be going digital wont they in next 5 years? and wouldn't Openreach have already replaced to fibre if they was going to in that area it would appear the digital will only be via CityFibre with provider using that network.

Cost is an issue if they was to keep phone on one network and internet on another phone lines on Openreach networks with unlimited package is looking to be £25+ per month and then got to pay more for internet not really an option is it when say Voda is £38 for 900Mbps and unlimited calls (£30 without phone) and as said if correct about bit above wont they need to switch in time anyway.

Connecting through routers is not an issue its the phone features that matter the call screening etc and all three phones will work fine.

No poles in area or near by and the cabinet is only a 10 meters away from their house on the other side of the road.

I don't think they would use virgin ducts if that was the case I would expect virgin to want a deal to provide the service not allow Voda only also why in the other areas would they install the other ports on the ground they could use virgin ones.

If people are unsure what I am on about here is examples

this is what they have on house currently bt/openreach https://image.ibb.co/cZ8d2Q/IMG_3008.jpg

other areas have these but not mine https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9... they was installed when laying the cables.

If the details are not clear I am happy to try fill in any info to help answer all the questions

For copper lines OpenReach will provide "digital voice" over a copper service (ADSL or VDSL) even if the person doesn't have broadband with them - that is what will happen by 2025 if FTTP isn't installed. So, it would mean moving to a digital service but that service could still be with OpenReach.

I would strongly suggest as well looking at Pulse8 phone options - they are generally much cheaper than BT and most other providers but you are correct that it may still be cheaper to go with VodaFone.

However, there will be relatively few people statistically who are on the forum using CityFibre VodaFone. The VodaFone service is digital and connects via a socket on the back of the router from what I can see on their site. However, whether that will work with your parents specific handsets is not something I can answer. Do their handsets have one base station then they all then connect to wirelessly? If they do then chances are fairly decent that it would still work (my old wireless handsets like this work just fine with BT Digital Voice.

The location of the cabinet is irrelevant - CityFibre don't use OpenReach cabinets. They probably will use the BT duct though unless they find problems.

Vodafone *do* provide digital voice on the router. That is, they will take over your number, and give you a router with an analogue telephony port that you can plug your existing phone(s) into.

The call screening features of the phone may not work: it depends on whether it's using caller ID, or it's just a recorded message. And since you're now getting both internet and telephony from the same provider, there are risks of losing the phone number the next time they switch service provider.

IMO the better approach is:
1. Take Internet service from Vodafone/Cityfibre. Don't port your existing number; Vodafone will allocate you a new one (that you ignore)
2. Set up a VoIP account with a provider like Sipgate, and test it
3. Migrate your phone number to Sipgate, which will close down both the FTTC service and the phone line.

This is the *safe* way to keep the phone number that they've had for 50 years, and to keep it going forwards. Still no guarantees on the call screening, but you might be able to find a VoIP provider who can duplicate the call screening feature they have, without needing a special phone. And it allows you easy switching of broadband in future, without affecting the phone number. They could even move to a different area - or a different country! - and take their number with them.

Cityfibre may or may not use Openreach ducts, but that's for them to decide. If they use Openreach ducts, then it's a sharing arrangement - it doesn't stop Openreach deploying their own FTTP to the same property later. They *could* dig their own microducts, or install their own poles, even if there are no existing poles. It's unlikely but it does happen.

The phone lines will all be going digital wont they in next 5 years?

Yes, in the next 3 years actually, but that's nothing to do with fibre. Where fibre's not available, users will be switched to digital voice on the router, but the router will still connect via copper using FTTC or ADSL.

However, it does mean that you are going to bite this sooner rather than later. There's little point now keeping the copper line just for phone, as you could just end up with two routers (one on CItyfibre FTTP and one on Openreach copper), and the second one doing nothing but digital voice.

In reply to a post by ian72:

For copper lines OpenReach will provide "digital voice" over a copper service (ADSL or VDSL) even if the person doesn't have broadband with them - that is what will happen by 2025 if FTTP isn't installed. So, it would mean moving to a digital service but that service could still be with OpenReach.

I would strongly suggest as well looking at Pulse8 phone options - they are generally much cheaper than BT and most other providers but you are correct that it may still be cheaper to go with VodaFone.

However, there will be relatively few people statistically who are on the forum using CityFibre VodaFone. The VodaFone service is digital and connects via a socket on the back of the router from what I can see on their site. However, whether that will work with your parents specific handsets is not something I can answer. Do their handsets have one base station then they all then connect to wirelessly? If they do then chances are fairly decent that it would still work (my old wireless handsets like this work just fine with BT Digital Voice.

The location of the cabinet is irrelevant - CityFibre don't use OpenReach cabinets. They probably will use the BT duct though unless they find problems.

I have checked the phones that they use and these are them https://shop.bt.com/products/bt-premium-phone---thre... 3 handsets.

They don't want to really go with Voda but no other option this is why i asked if anyone knew about the term of exclusive deal for the area.

In reply to a post by mortmaru:

Thanks for the reply.

I know CityFibre is separate to Openreach but they can share ducts right in areas which will only provide one service?

Openreach can't share any of Cityfibres infrastructure.

Cityfibre can share Openreach's ducts and poles using their PIA product (physical infrastructure access).
The method they use to install to you isn't optional.

If Cityfibre have chosen to use Openreach's ducts in your street then they will use them.
If they have chosen to dig their own ducts and have left a Toby for you (a small plastic hatch at the boundary of your property) then this is how they will install to your property and the existing Openreach infrastructure would not be an option.

In some areas they use 1 or the other, in other areas they use a mix of both in different streets.

Edited by j0hn83 (Wed 24-Aug-22 16:33:37)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by mortmaru:

Thanks for the reply.

I know CityFibre is separate to Openreach but they can share ducts right in areas which will only provide one service?

Openreach can't share any of Cityfibres infrastructure.

Cityfibre can share Openreach's ducts and poles using their PIA product (physical infrastructure access).
The method they use to install to you isn't optional.

If Cityfibre have chosen to use Openreach's ducts in your street then they will use them.
If they have chosen to dig their own ducts and have left a Toby for you (a small plastic hatch at the boundary of your property) then this is how they will install to your property and the existing Openreach infrastructure would not be an option.

In some areas they use 1 or the other, in other areas they use a mix of both in different streets.

Thanks for the info it looks like they must have used openreach ducts and will do to the house otherwise i cant see how they can install it if no Toby boxes

Virgin installed one outside it's useless for my parents house due to the way property is they would need to dig the front out going down a few meters, they did come out years ago and tried to bodge it thinking they could lift some dirt feed cable only in it didn't work in the end they left it on top of flower beds and claimed it had been connected.

In reply to a post by mortmaru:

The phone lines will all be going digital wont they in next 5 years? and wouldn't Openreach have already replaced to fibre if they was going to in that area it would appear the digital will only be via CityFibre with provider using that network.

Openreach are upgrading around 85% of properties by 2026. They will get around to doing your area.

The phones going digital can still work over your existing telephone like.

Regarding the blocking feature of those phones; as long as the caller id works with the new provider then the blocking will work without any problems.