Question regarding BT Openreach FTTP installation

I'm building a house and have been in talks with Openreach to get FTTP. But I'm not sure what I have to do in terms of laying ducting down etc.

I know I'm supposed to have a joint box built. Does this mean I have to lay ducting from the room I wish to have the modem right to the joint box - this is the PDF that the openreach rep provided me:
https://www.openreach.com/content/dam/openreach/open...

I was planning to put all my networking gear under the stair. I've got CAT6 ports in every room where I'll require wired internet and will be using a patch panel, which will then connect to a network switch, which will subsequently obtain 'internet' from the BT router/modem.

As this will be all discreet and hidden away, I wanted to keep it that way so the BT engineers could feed the Fibre cable directly to this site.

I was planning on laying down 20mm pipe/conduit from the stair closet all the way to the outside of the property to facilitate that. Or should I extend the conduit to inside that junction box?

I had hoped the process of getting FTTP would be painless but it seems all the work has to be done by the developer!

You’ve only got a relatively small part of the overall picture with the JBs guide. The full suite of guides and handbooks can be found here:

https://www.openreach.com/building-developers-and-pr...

If I was you I would go back to the rep, they should have explained a lot more than just saying about a JB (hopefully they suggested a modular Stakkabox). You need ducting from the JB to the outside wall of the property, I would recommend 'BT duct 56' which is 54mm grey ducting. If you don't want the ONT put on the hallway or lounge wall you will also need an OFS fibre cable (used by most developers) run from the outside wall to under the stairs before you plasterboard the walls/ceilings of your new house. I would recommend installing one of these subject to the length you need https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314125683499

There is so much you need to know before you start doing this.

If you want your network equipment under the stairs away from external walls then bury duct 56 to wherever the connection outside your boundary is going to be, but then also run duct between this location and your under stairs location.

You can't duct right into your house because any gas leaks or water that fills the duct is going to come up into your house, but by using ducting rather than simply running the fibre cable it means that any altnet using PIA can install, you can have the fibre cable replaced in future if there are faults etc.

See page 20 of the new sites fibre handbook for an idea of what I am talking about.

Its not me who needs advice so best direct your posts to the OP

Thank you - you have all explained this much better than the BT engineer.

I'll lay conduit from stair case to outside property, and then I'll use BT's ducting to facilitate access from just outside the property to the junction box.

Would a 32mm conduit be sufficient for future proofing purposes? I'll be running 32mm conduit from under the stairs (network area) to nearest wall where the engineer can feed wires from the BTjunction box. I could buy a bigger conduit if needed however.

Does anyone know what kind of Fibre Optic cable BT use? OS1? OS2? OM1/2/3?

OS2 is rated to run at 400G.

I could feed this through the conduit as suggested above if it simplifies the installation for the Openreach engineer:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314125683499

32mm will be more than enough. Don't bother buying any fibre cable, just leave a draw string in the conduit.

Could you clarity if you putting the conduit in the slab from under the stairs to the outside wall or if its going up and over and down through the fabric of the building as this may affect the advice you're given?

In reply to a post by RAY21:

Would a 32mm conduit be sufficient for future proofing purposes? I'll be running 32mm conduit from under the stairs (network area) to nearest wall where the engineer can feed wires from the BTjunction box. I could buy a bigger conduit if needed however.

Does anyone know what kind of Fibre Optic cable BT use? OS1? OS2? OM1/2/3?

OS2 is rated to run at 400G.

I could feed this through the conduit as suggested above if it simplifies the installation for the Openreach engineer:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/314125683499

32mm sufficient.

Openreach drop cable is ITU-T G657.B3 bend-insensitive fibre. Whether it’s rated to 400G or 800G is irrelevant. The optical bandwidth is enormous actually well beyond terrabit on current technology.

Don’t worry you’ll be fine. Leave a decent drawrope. No sharp elbows. Secure any flexi conduit from “bunching” inside cavities.

All conduits (especially those which egress into public networks) should always be properly duct sealed using an appropriate duct sealing foam collar and mastic sealant. I found out the hard way. When our house (still under reconstruction) was closed and evacuated when gas was detected leaking in through open conduit. Culprit was the next door neighbour three doors away. It cost me a few grand in loss and expense and reworks. Lesson learned.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

32mm sufficient.

If the OP is going through the slab from under the stairs to the front of the property I would personally use the BT duct 56 (54mm) and I would suspect Openreach would also recommend that. I think only putting in 32mm conduit in when you have the chance to put 54mm ducting in is short sighted as the OP may want/need to put other providers fibre cables through it at a later date and I don't think that will be easy.

If the OP is going up and over then there is not much choice really other than settling for the 32mm conduit but I personally would put the Ebay linked fibre cable through as its the exact product developer use when doing new properties although they wouldn't typically put it in a duct/conduit but 'jpm' made a good point earlier in the thread about cable replacement which I hadn't previously considered.

To be clear, I thought the OP meant 32mm conduit internally (as in within the actual dwelling). Which is wholly sufficient for the services from one carrier.

External ducting I agree should really be grey Duct 56 (well for Openreach it should be grey, VMO2 get upset or they used to, pre-PIA, if 'their' duct wasn't green)

I had 3 lots of 56mm ducting installed, from curtilage to 'comms entry' point -to cover all eventualities with Openreach + VM present and accounted for and future Altnets ready in another duct. When you've got the trench open, chucking another duct is pennies to install and future reinstatement with RC and decorative yorkstone paving on top doesn't bear contemplation.

Edited by Pheasant (Tue 08-Nov-22 22:47:20)

I think we are all getting so conditioned to people asking similar questions to this that the stock answer is put a 25mm conduit in with no sharp bends and make sure its got a draw rope.

Edited by deleted (Tue 08-Nov-22 23:02:23)

👍😀

What I will be doing is laying some internal ducting from the network closet under the stairs to the wall adjacent to where my junction box is situated.

I'll use the supplied BT ducting to give access to the outside of the property from the junction box.

I didn't fancy getting leaving an open entry point directly into my network closet from the outside.

I'm currently battling a rat in our house and the last thing I want is some vermin to find it's way in through an accessible hole.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

32mm sufficient.

If the OP is going through the slab from under the stairs to the front of the property I would personally use the BT duct 56 (54mm) and I would suspect Openreach would also recommend that. I think only putting in 32mm conduit in when you have the chance to put 54mm ducting in is short sighted as the OP may want/need to put other providers fibre cables through it at a later date and I don't think that will be easy.

If the OP is going up and over then there is not much choice really other than settling for the 32mm conduit but I personally would put the Ebay linked fibre cable through as its the exact product developer use when doing new properties although they wouldn't typically put it in a duct/conduit but 'jpm' made a good point earlier in the thread about cable replacement which I hadn't previously considered.

The linked ebay cable is far too long. I only require a 5-6m cable max.

In reply to a post by dect:

I think we are all getting so conditioned to people asking similar questions to this that the stock answer is put a 25mm conduit in with no sharp bends and make sure its got a draw rope.

To add for anyone reading in future:
Conduit tends to have swept bends (sometimes called just bends) and elbows - elbows are too tight and should be avoided. Hand pulled bends are normally fine too as te little ridge from fittings is missing.

In reply to a post by RAY21:

The linked ebay cable is far too long. I only require a 5-6m cable max.

Don't get any fibre. As others have said: put in your ~25mm conduit with a draw string, and OR will pull through their own cable and splice it at the CSP. The engineer on the day will be very happy not to have to do any drilling through the wall

The OR installation guy should have these cables with him in various lengths so no need to buy. If you look at the ebay sellers other listings he has other lengths for sale.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

decorative yorkstone paving on top doesn't bear contemplation.

Oi. Give it back Stick with your southern concrete.

In reply to a post by kommando:

The OR installation guy should have these cables with him in various lengths so no need to buy.

Just for the record most Openreach guys I believe use the Dexgreen inside out cables as they are normally surface mounted, these OFS cables are given to developer by Openreach and are a lot better and are installed within the main fabric of the property. If its going in ducting under the slab I would recommend the Dexgreen with the jacket on, if its going within conduit within the fabric I would 100% recommend the OFS cable.

Others clearly think different (not all with any exposure to both cables), but this is my opinion having seen both and I have OFS in my property.

Scoutmoor. It’s lovely stuff 😅

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by kommando:

The OR installation guy should have these cables with him in various lengths so no need to buy.

Just for the record most Openreach guys I believe use the Dexgreen inside out cables as they are normally surface mounted, these OFS cables are given to developer by Openreach and are a lot better and are installed within the main fabric of the property. If its going in ducting under the slab I would recommend the Dexgreen with the jacket on, if its going within conduit within the fabric I would 100% recommend the OFS cable.

Others clearly think different (not all with any exposure to both cables), but this is my opinion having seen both and I have OFS in my property.

What is the difference between the two cables?

Dexgreen branded cable is more or less the latest buy in bulk “general purpose” cable that Openreach fill their stores with for customer connections inside/out connectorised variety being the one installed from the CSP to the ONT location. It’s cheap.

OFS is a global manufacturer of loads of different optical fibre products. Openreach originally used their InvisiLight (Ez-bend) product range for the specific requirements found in multi-dwelling / apartment locations where surface mounted cable with a very small outside diameter and capability to be routed around very tight bends without fear of failure was a necessity. It’s more expensive.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Openreach originally used their InvisiLight (Ez-bend) product range for the specific requirements found in multi-dwelling / apartment locations where surface mounted cable with a very small outside diameter and capability to be routed around very tight bends without fear of failure was a necessity. It’s more expensive.

The OD for the fibre cable currently supplied to developers by Openreach for installation in new builds is 5mm and is a lot more rugged than the Dexgreen without its jacket as that is approx. 2.9mm, the cable used to retro fit flats is a different product.

As the OP is running it in containment, that may in future have another cable (or two) pulled in - imho it’s a good idea to keep the fibre double jacketed to avoid any damage from another cable pull.

If the fibre was surface mounted, different ball game. Slimest is best (notwithstanding of course running double/external sheath indoors is tut tut)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

As the OP is running it in containment, that may in future have another cable (or two) pulled in - imho it’s a good idea to keep the fibre double jacketed to avoid any damage from another cable pull.

Thats why the OFS is the better choice, its as good as the Dexgreen (with its jacket on) but without the issue of the external sheathing being run indoors.

I can tell I'm wasting my time so I will zip it

Do you know if Openreach are generally happy to use a customer-supplied cable?

In reply to a post by jpm:

Do you know if Openreach are generally happy to use a customer-supplied cable?

The OFS fibre cable being discussed here has got 'Property of BT' all the way down it and is available to developers from an FBC.

Edit: If you're thinking of rocking up with a fibre cable from Tandy and hoping Openreach will splice onto it then thats something thats never going to happen (although who am I to say never).

Edited by deleted (Thu 10-Nov-22 09:05:35)

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

32mm sufficient.

If the OP is going through the slab from under the stairs to the front of the property I would personally use the BT duct 56 (54mm) and I would suspect Openreach would also recommend that. I think only putting in 32mm conduit in when you have the chance to put 54mm ducting in is short sighted as the OP may want/need to put other providers fibre cables through it at a later date and I don't think that will be easy.

If the OP is going up and over then there is not much choice really other than settling for the 32mm conduit but I personally would put the Ebay linked fibre cable through as its the exact product developer use when doing new properties although they wouldn't typically put it in a duct/conduit but 'jpm' made a good point earlier in the thread about cable replacement which I hadn't previously considered.

To be honest I could use BT's duct 56 from the closet all the way to the exterior wall of the property, and I'll cover it with a waterproof IP66 outdoor junction box - which the BT engineer can then feed the fibre cable directly into. That's probably the 'cleanest' installation.

Here is my proposed plan
[img]https://i.imgur.com/9Tsj533.jpg[/img]

I'm not even sure why but I also routed 3x OS2 fiber cables to my office as 'future proofing' - I hope this was a good idea lol.

Edited by RAY21 (Fri 11-Nov-22 21:18:32)

I wonder if any of the Openreach guys on here know if stores item 066165 (duct 56 seal) is still available as it may be the best solution for the OP once the fibre cable has been put through the ducting between the front of the property and the under stairs cupboard. I know normally the default for protecting ducting is a 'Duct Plug 1A' but the duct seal should protect against the ingression of water and gas (and hopefully rodents).

Edited by deleted (Fri 11-Nov-22 22:51:23)