Swish Fibre

Swish Fibre are installing in various parts of our town (Banbury) and, as is to be expected, there are a lot of conflicting views (and, as is usual for social media, everyone "thinks" they're right).

We have one person (me) who suggests Swish are installing their own cabinets and fibres but, where possible, have a way-leave to use Openreach poles and ducting.

We have others who are insisting Swish are doing nothing more than leasing Openreach lines; but that argument isn't backed up by us having two different fleets of vans parked at various locations... Swish ones, where their cabinets are popping up and Openreach ones, in other parts of town, where fibres were coiled up, on poles, months ago).

Anyone know who is right?
Is Swish just another reseller of Openreach installed lines; or is it a completely different roll-out, that just happens to use Openreach poles & ducts?

The latter.

They are also doing Brackley at the moment. They seem to mostly be using openreach ducting where they can but not exclusively even within the same estate. For example Humphries Drive is nearly a mile long and forms the back-bone of my estate built in the 90s. For some reason they chose to lay their own ducting along about 200 yards of pavement about half way up. Mostly all they've done on our estate though is dig out additional chambers and link them to the nearest openreach chamber. I assume those are for an aggregation node (if that's the term) and the final connections will be run through openreach ducting as/when properties sign up.

In older parts they've installed ducting along the full length of the pavement then run spurs off for each property with a small access cover. These parts of Brackley - built in the 80s - do have openreach access covers but they are much smaller and less frequent than ours so presumably the existing ducting is just too small to take additional fibre.

They haven't yet done anything in the newer estates which already have openreach FTTP. It'll be interesting to see if they bother or if they just consider that a waste of time.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The latter.

So I'm right... different companies, different products, different roll-outs, it's just Swish happen to be using some ducts & poles "owned" by Openreach.

Hopefully someone from Swish will come along to clarify the situation; as the person I'm arguing with (over on a local Facebook group) is 100% adamant (although he's changed his story from "Openreach are doing the hardware upgrades and Swish lease the lines from Openreach"... whatever "hardware upgrades" means... to "other providers are installing but its not exclusive hardware, openreach agree to them installing but the hardware becomes infrastructure thus owned by open reach").

He seems to be suggesting that because Openreach "allow" other companies to use their poles & ducts; that everything installed by those companies, now belongs to Openreach (the conclusion being; Swish are paying to have all the fibre, cabinets, ONTs installed - using OR ducts & poles, where possible - and then have to pay OR to lease the lines Swish have just paid to install).
That sounds like a very poor business model.

I actually wonder if it's somewhere between the two points of view.
I cannot believe any company (e.g. Swish) would be stupid enough to start a major roll-out, across 12 counties, pay for all the equipment, fibres, ducts, ONTs, etc.; then be put in a position of having to pay for all of that, from just the monthly rental, minus whatever OR charge for leasing fibre lines (because, as he reckons, Swish have paid for the install, but OR actually own all of the infrastructure... fibres, nodes, cabinets, ducts, etc. that Swish paid to install... makes zero sense to me )

I'm sure the man is wrong and has completely misunderstood what "Openreach communications provider status, which allows the use of existing Openreach infrastructure (telegraph poles & underground ducting) to distribute Full Fibre." means.

... But it would be nice to hear it from the horse's mouth (i.e. someone from Swish).
You know what people are like, these days, on Facebook... absolutely everyone assumes they're 100% correct, about everything (I'm doing the same as he is... he's convinced he is correct; I'm convinced Swish are not simply leasing lines owned by OR... regardless of whether Swish are paying for those lines, then gifting them to OR, so Swish can pay to lease them back

Edited by adebov (Sat 12-Nov-22 22:11:23)

You could always contact Chris @ Swish Fibre via this forums

In reply to a post by dect:

You could always contact Chris @ Swish Fibre via this forums

I've done that, thanks.
It would be good to get the correct, accurate and true story (as this guy on Facebook could be damaging Swish's business in Banbury; if enough people read his claims about the Swish product basically being a resold OR product) since he claims everything that Swish install, automatically becomes the property of OR, because OR are "allowing" Swish to use their ducts!

Worth reading up on PIA the Openreach product that other companies buy to use the OR poles and ducts.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Worth reading up on PIA the Openreach product that other companies buy to use the OR poles and ducts.

I think that's where the Facebook guy is getting confused.
I think he's assuming that because some (not all) of Swish's fibres are going in OR ducts (and on OR poles) that fibre *must* belong to OR.

As I understand it; companies pay a licensing fee, to Openreach, allowing them to use OR ducts & poles, but the fibre installed by the non-OR company (in this case; Swish) remains the property of that company.
It doesn't mean the fibres in those ducts (and on those poles) suddenly becomes the property of OR (otherwise; why would part of the license fee cover rights for companies to maintain equipment on OR poles... if that equipment became the property of OR, as soon as it was installed... surely; if something is the property of OR; it would be up to OR, to maintain it).

I don't think, unless I'm wrong, the PIA compels companies to pay for a license, pay to install cables/fibres/etc. then, as part of the PIA licensing, those cables & fibres are no longer owned by the company that installed them (and are handed over to OR and have to be leased back by the installing company).

Isn't the PIA licensing all about facilitating shared access (for ducts & poles) to ease roll-out of products, rather than being a mechanism for OR to get free stuff.

It may well be Swish are using 'Cablelink' (i.e. OR fibres) to get back to the exchange... so he may be partly correct (if Swish are not linking back to exchanges... but there are so many large round ducts being installed in Banbury... sort of 6" black tubes, along dual carriageways and right up to the area where Swish are installing most of their properties; it's possible Swish are going all the way, or almost all the way from their field equipment, back to the exchange).

So; if Swish are using OR's Cablelink product; it will probably transpire the kit out on the streets and into people's homes, will be Swish owned fibres, ONTs in the homes, aggregation points, etc. and the final 'hop' back from main BT cabinet(s) to the exchange, could be OR fibres...
... a hybrid product; rather than the 100% OR fibre infrastructure product that's offered by BT, Plusnet, EE, Sky, etc.

You're over thinking it, PIA is a Openreach product so Altnets can use BT ducting/poles to facilitate their own cabling. They also add where necessary their own ducting/chambers/poles but Openreach cannot uses these even if they link two Openreach chambers that weren't linked before.

Edited by deleted (Sun 13-Nov-22 10:19:45)

In reply to a post by adebov:

the person I'm arguing with (over on a local Facebook group) is 100% adamant

And they are 100% wrong.
https://xkcd.com/386/