FTTP speeds measurement - via browser or specific app?

I am in a new build home which came with an Openreach FTTP connection complete with an ONT installed. I chose the full 900 package with Zen but have been disappointed at the speeds I have been getting. Zen's technical support have been getting me to carry out various diagnostic tests including connecting direct from my desktop PC by ethernet cable to the ONT so bypassing my wiring and the Zen Fritz router.
Yesterday, initiated by Zen, two guys from Openreach came. They changed the ONT, re-spliced the connection outside the house and made various other checks including the fibre network routing. This has improved speeds considerably. I have now found this morning that running a speed test through a browser (Edge or Chrome) with just the one tab open and no other apps running gives much slower speeds than if I use the dedicated Speedtest.net app which I have only just discovered. This has left me confused as Zen itself has a browser based link on its website to a customised version of Speedtest.net. What should I believe? How can I really check if I am getting the speeds that I am paying for?

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

I am in a new build home which came with an Openreach FTTP connection complete with an ONT installed. I chose the full 900 package with Zen but have been disappointed at the speeds I have been getting. Zen's technical support have been getting me to carry out various diagnostic tests including connecting direct from my desktop PC by ethernet cable to the ONT so bypassing my wiring and the Zen Fritz router.
Yesterday, initiated by Zen, two guys from Openreach came. They changed the ONT, re-spliced the connection outside the house and made various other checks including the fibre network routing. This has improved speeds considerably. I have now found this morning that running a speed test through a browser (Edge or Chrome) with just the one tab open and no other apps running gives much slower speeds than if I use the dedicated Speedtest.net app which I have only just discovered. This has left me confused as Zen itself has a browser based link on its website to a customised version of Speedtest.net. What should I believe? How can I really check if I am getting the speeds that I am paying for?

Download a large file of a known size (for example from the TBB main site) and time how long it takes.

You haven't actually told us the speed you are receiving via the speed tests.

Also various speed tests will give differing results, depending on the time of day and backhaul etc. also remember that many smaller sites (in general) have connectivity of only 1gbit.

Ftp, which is used to transfer files, is probably the most efficient way to download large files and even then speeds may fluctuate. The max you will see on a public ftp server is an 8gb linux iso file which won't stress a gigabit connection.

I took made several test within a few minutes. The official Zen test at http://speedtest.zen.co.uk/ gave a best result of 375Mbps, using speedtest.net got 408Mbps. Switching straight to the Speedtest app I attained an average of 714Mbps and a peak of 913 over 8 tests in quick succession.
It has been suggested to me that a browser test will just d/l a single thread whereas the desktop app might try multiple threads to saturate the bandwidth.
Given that ISPs such as Zen guarantee a minimum d/l speed it surprises me that there isn't a definitive test across the industry by which this is measured.
I have concentrated on the download speeds as the upload has been consistent across all the tests close to 100.
I appreciate that having never had a really good internet connection before, I am on a steep learning curve,.

Speedtest.net does not provide the speed test for Zen.
The speedtest for Zen is provided by Think Broadband.
May be worth testing the Think Broadband test directly as that does single and multi thread, also the speedtest.net website gives the option for single or multi thread

Thanks
Dan

Hi,

Have you tried using the CLl version of the speedtest from Speedtest.net? I use that even on my Ubuntu box as it uses less overhead than even the app. One question that you do not answer is (IMHO @ least...): what OS are you using? Windows 10/11? A flavour of Linux? Android?? Once you answer that question you might get some better answers.

HTH,

Thanks for your advice. I am running Windows 11 Pro 22H2 (fully patched and up to date). Sadly, as far as I can see the CLI version of Speedtest is not available for the Windows environment.

@ChrisWillsher,

I have the CLI on my Windows 10 tablet & laptop (all fully up-to-date). So there is a CLI for WIndows (here is the link for the x64 Windows Command Line Interface). It definitely works as I use it nearly every day...

HTH,

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

I took made several test within a few minutes. The official Zen test at http://speedtest.zen.co.uk/ gave a best result of 375Mbps, using speedtest.net got 408Mbps. Switching straight to the Speedtest app I attained an average of 714Mbps and a peak of 913 over 8 tests in quick succession.

is this done on the same device or different?

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

It has been suggested to me that a browser test will just d/l a single thread whereas the desktop app might try multiple threads to saturate the bandwidth.

That is simply untrue. A modern browser on a mac or pc can use many threads and multiple network connections

Many thanks. That's brilliant. What a difference. Speedtest.net multi ~390, Speedtest app 534 and Speedtest/Ookla CLI 840Mbps. I'll never believe a web based test again! All three tests run within the same 3 minute period with nothing else running.

All on same Dell Optiplex desktop PC with great care taken to ensure nothing else was using the bandwidth.

are you using the pre install web browser..

if you are - uninstall and re-install

Thanks. I have done this for both Edge and Chrome but both give similar figures. The Speedtest app and the CLI version of Speedtest seem to give higher and at first look a better guide to the actaul speed you are getting in pure terms.

what anti virus are you using ?

ESET. I tried with the real time protection paused but did not see any obvious difference.

ok, try, shut down eset completely by quitting the program. then try chrome in safe mode

Open Run box by pressing Windows+ R keys together on your keyboard. · In the text box, type in: chrome.exe -incognito · Press Enter or click OK.

then go to the same speed test.

That definitely gives higher readings. I then re-enabled Eset and still got similar readings with both Chrome and Edge in incognito modes than in standard browser format. All very interesting. I have learned quite a lot today!

you may have a browser extension enabled which could be part of an issue ..

As its a dell, it may have unwanted apps which is causing some of the issue. As you done the cli/shell test and reported that its ok i'm reluctant to suggest running windows with limited start up programs.

Is the slower anticipated speed affecting your use of the internet?

If doing via browser disable a/v web injection, and tbb and/or fast.com I would use for basic testing.

Both are able to do single threaded tests (tbb does it automatically as well as multi threaded). fast.com is netflix network.

Thanks for all the advice and help I have received today. Since logging the issue with Zen I have gone througfh hoops to eliminate all possible causes of poor speeds. The engineer from Openreach has been excellent and extremely thorough. This evening he used Openreach equipment to log into Openreach's own network (isolated from Zen's servers) direct from the ONT and recorded speeds above 980Mbps. When he put the network back to Zen the speed dropped considerably. He has reported this back to Zen and suggested a Zen backhaul issue might be to blame. Zen support has confirmed to me this evening that they will now investigate as it is clearly not an issue with my setup of the fibre connection but is within the scope of Zen's competence.
I will now await further developments. I would hate to leave Zen and go to BT because Zen cannot honour their speed guarantee and I feel sure they won't let that happen.

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

Thanks for all the advice and help I have received today. Since logging the issue with Zen I have gone througfh hoops to eliminate all possible causes of poor speeds. The engineer from Openreach has been excellent and extremely thorough. This evening he used Openreach equipment to log into Openreach's own network (isolated from Zen's servers) direct from the ONT and recorded speeds above 980Mbps. When he put the network back to Zen the speed dropped considerably. He has reported this back to Zen and suggested a Zen backhaul issue might be to blame. Zen support has confirmed to me this evening that they will now investigate as it is clearly not an issue with my setup of the fibre connection but is within the scope of Zen's competence.
I will now await further developments. I would hate to leave Zen and go to BT because Zen cannot honour their speed guarantee and I feel sure they won't let that happen.

If you look at the Zen board on this Forum you will see that there is an ongoing saga of poor speeds recorded through their network. IIRC, they have also now modified their Ts & Cs and only guarantee to provide service at about half of the headline rate so they may well be honouring that even with your reduced speeds. That could leave you with a hefty bill if you decide to leave mid-contract.

Best of luck with them.

Not really. As I have lived with speeds of around 2Mbps for many years in a rural backwater I decided that now I had a fast fibre service I would indulge myself with the fastest available to see what it is like. I was the lead for a community fibre partnership in the village where we lived but left just as everyone was getting connected up. Pure self indulgence on my part, not necessity I confess,

Yes, I am aware of some of these issues. Point noted! Thanks. Time will tell.

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

Thanks for all the advice and help I have received today. Since logging the issue with Zen I have gone througfh hoops to eliminate all possible causes of poor speeds. The engineer from Openreach has been excellent and extremely thorough. This evening he used Openreach equipment to log into Openreach's own network (isolated from Zen's servers) direct from the ONT and recorded speeds above 980Mbps. When he put the network back to Zen the speed dropped considerably. He has reported this back to Zen and suggested a Zen backhaul issue might be to blame. Zen support has confirmed to me this evening that they will now investigate as it is clearly not an issue with my setup of the fibre connection but is within the scope of Zen's competence.
I will now await further developments. I would hate to leave Zen and go to BT because Zen cannot honour their speed guarantee and I feel sure they won't let that happen.

Its a very odd form of fault investigation from Zen, as I assume they will get billed from the visit, given that they have many open tickets already with back haul issues, they just throwing money away at this point on these wasted call outs.

it may not even be the back haul, and but the server config at zen(or lack of network kit). Its very hard from the outside to guess, as both a bottleneck inside of zen and a lack of peering back haul will create the above issues.

Thanks. After the Openreach engineer proved the line was OK by connecting the ONT to the BTW servers, he told Zen that the problem was down to their network. I now await news from Zen.
This morning I have taken the step to make a formal declaration to Zen that they are not meeting the minimum guaranteed service level so the 30 day clock will start ticking.
From what I read elsewhere, most speed problems relate to the GEA connection Zen now uses. I cannot see what my service uses but apparently there are three that they can link you to, BTW, TTB and their own "Plexus".
This morning my d/l speed couldn't even make it to 100 and I'm on the 900 package.

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

most speed problems relate to the GEA connection Zen now uses. I cannot see what my service uses but apparently there are three that they can link you to, BTW, TTB and their own "Plexus".

Most of the previous issues have been related to when users were quietly migrated off of BTW to Plexus, I do not know of any users who have had the issue satisfactory resolved while still stay on Plexus, most of the time Zen have moved affected users back to BTW. There are users who have reported the issue has disappeared but Zen does not seem to know what fixed it. I believe users who have been migrated will see an entry in when they login to the Zen portal and check any processed orders.

I realise you are not getting your full speed but you might be better off, less stress, holding back on the constant speed testing. If your household is being affected by the lower speed then bagder them to sort something out.

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

most speed problems relate to the GEA connection Zen now uses. I cannot see what my service uses but apparently there are three that they can link you to, BTW, TTB and their own "Plexus".

Most of the previous issues have been related to when users were quietly migrated off of BTW to Plexus, I do not know of any users who have had the issue satisfactory resolved while still stay on Plexus, most of the time Zen have moved affected users back to BTW. There are users who have reported the issue has disappeared but Zen does not seem to know what fixed it. I believe users who have been migrated will see an entry in when they login to the Zen portal and check any processed orders.

I knew that some zen users where having issues but not to this extent! Thats a mess and a half, and not easy solution.

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

most speed problems relate to the GEA connection Zen now uses. I cannot see what my service uses but apparently there are three that they can link you to, BTW, TTB and their own "Plexus".

Most of the previous issues have been related to when users were quietly migrated off of BTW to Plexus, I do not know of any users who have had the issue satisfactory resolved while still stay on Plexus, most of the time Zen have moved affected users back to BTW. There are users who have reported the issue has disappeared but Zen does not seem to know what fixed it. I believe users who have been migrated will see an entry in when they login to the Zen portal and check any processed orders.

I knew that some zen users where having issues but not to this extent! Thats a mess and a half, and not easy solution.

Oh, they can have far worse. they will eventually start ignoring you by promising a return phone call and never actually making one.

If they move you off the cr***py backhaul, be assured that they'll move you back onto it in a few months, unannounced. If they promise not to do so, they will anyway.

Counting the days until my contract expires.

Update - Zen technical support has been in contact today. Although they can find nothing wrong, they are going to move me over the BTW. Told it will take about 10 days. It would appear to me that Zen has an issue with its own backhaul arrangements. Maybe this does not effect those on slower packages? I am determined to get the speeds that I am paying for, whether I need them or not, otherwise I will reluctantly move from Zen which I have been with in various homes almost since the business was started.
I'll report back once the change has been made.

From previous experience:

Plan on being cut off ob the day of moving to BTW. Their internal moving of login "stuff" needed to be manually done on both times that they reverted me.

Plan on having to repeat these steps in approximately three months when they move you back to their backhaul.

Good luck.

I now have an activation date for the transfer to BTW.
The process seems rather complicated and seems to involve cancelling the existing service (with details of how much the "cancellation" costs) and "re-provisioning", whatever that means.
I naively thought they could just flick a switch! What do I know?

So, I have been migrated to BTW by Zen. The end result is that the speeds are even worse than before. Zen states their diagnostics can find nothing wrong and as the service is now provided by BTW, they will need to register a "fault" with their supplier.
Whilst I could live with the speeds I am getting, I am paying for a 900Mbps service and getting 300 at best. I struggle to understand how the fibre networks operate at the higher levels. I was advised to run a trace command but struggle understand what the information tells me. Running a tracert command shows a surprising number of "hops". Can anyone help?
Tracing route to dns.google [8.8.8.8]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 2 ms 2 ms 3 ms fritz.box [192.168.178.1]
2 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms vt1.cor2.lond2.ptn.zen.net.uk [51.148.72.24]
3 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms lag-8.p1.ixn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.188]
4 18 ms 17 ms 17 ms lag-2.p1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.132]
5 19 ms 16 ms 17 ms lag-1.br1.thn-lon.zen.net.uk [51.148.73.153]
6 20 ms 18 ms 20 ms 72.14.223.28
7 20 ms 18 ms 20 ms 209.85.249.187
8 21 ms 20 ms 20 ms 172.253.66.87
9 21 ms 17 ms 18 ms dns.google [8.8.8.8]

Trace complete.

Is that on a cabled connection?
The latency is pretty horrible TBH and I used to get much better than that (8-10ms) on FTTC.

traceroute to 8.8.8.8 (8.8.8.8), 64 hops max, 52 byte packets
1 x.x.x.x 0.833 ms 0.465 ms 0.413 ms
2 31.x.x.x 3.402 ms 3.934 ms 3.570 ms
3 10.240.10.187 (10.240.10.187) 4.101 ms 3.990 ms 4.261 ms
4 72.14.204.96 (72.14.204.96) 4.432 ms 4.610 ms 4.420 ms
5 * * *
6 dns.google (8.8.8.8) 4.525 ms 3.642 ms 4.465 ms

Do you think your router is responsive enough?

BTW I get <>1gbit on Swish from pretty much any wired client to fast.com or Speedtest etc from a browser which is Brave on Mac or Brave or Edge on Windows.

I am in the process of multiple BTW->ZenBackhaul->BTW-> ZenBackhaul->BTW->ZenBackhaul->BTW (I think)

Originally it was fine on BTW, rubbish on ZenBackhaul.

Now I have told them that enough is enough and arranged transfer to A&A. At least they sort any problems out.

Apparently they're (Zen) the #1

Wow.

Fibre to the house. Installed by Openreach themselves to a new build property. FritzBox connected direct to the ONT. The LAN Cat 6 cabling is via a Ubiquiti switch but I have tried all combinations to eliminate any issues due to my setup. Before I was migrated to BTW, I could connect the desktop PC direct to the ONT LAN socket and login to Zen via PPPOE but whilst I can still connect this way and register on their system, since moving to BTW it no longer gets an internet connection.
It has to be a Zen network issue but so far, they have not found anything wrong. I am getting a consistent speed of around 300 d/l and 50 u/l.

And I am getting 17 Mbps down if lucky and 100+ up

Good luck. IMO you'll need it with Zen. One hand does not know what the other is doing.

I can see me ending up doing something similar. I am reluctant to move from Zen as I like the FritzBox and also have AVM Fritz VOIP phones. It is useful to be able to control the phones and phonebook all from logging into the router.

This morning my faith in Zen has been restored. They have just reported that they have "found a misconfiguration in the network for your connection and have now rectified this".
My speeds have increased by a factor of 3. ~930Mbps download and ~100Mbps upload on my first few tests.
Needless to say, I shall be keeping a watch for a while to make sure this is maintained. It took a while but we seem to have got there in the end. They must have realised that I wasn't going to give up.

In reply to a post by chriswillsher:

This morning my faith in Zen has been restored.

One swallow doesn't make a Summer 😎