Broadband Monitor Help

Hi,
I have been having a lot of trouble with my Sky broadband which is FTTC, I am 200 yards away from the exchange and less than 30 yards from the cabinet. I usually get a constant 78Mb download and Sky garauntee my speed at 61.9 Mb download.
Since late March my speed has dropped to 37Mb download every 24 hours and what I have to do is go into the routers maintenance settings and disconnect/reconnect the session to get my speed back up and then 24 hours later it drops again. I always tested on a cabled and wifi connection, w and after 2 Sky engineer visits and an Open Reach engineer visit nothing can be found wrong at my end, both the Open Reach and second Sky engineer told me that it was a through put fault and needed an Open Reach network engineer to fix it however all Sky have done is used their own network team to monitor the line and said that there is nothing wrong and have blamed my setup at home for the fault. On the last phone call to Sky the advisor insisted that it is a WiFi fault and constantly confused WiFi with an ethernet connection 🙄
So someone on the Sky community forum pointed me to this site and I have been running a broadband monitor but to be honest I haven't got a clue what I am looking at. I was hoping that someone here could look at the graph and tell me what's happening?
Thanks for any help.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Edited by Del1701 (Sun 28-May-23 08:57:28)

That BQM is awful. Is there noise on the phone line?

My guess (and it is a guess) is that one of the wires in the pair feeding your house has a fault, hence the halving of your synch speed.

This would be an Openreach issue.

Thanks for your quick reply, Open Reach tested my line and said there was nothing wrong, they said that I have a constant 78Mb to the phone socket, they checked the line from the socket to the exchange and it was good 🤔

If the fault is intermittent, as it seems to be, the line could quite possibly test good when the fault isn't occurring.

I had a similar problem years ago, it was a high resistance fault. Corrosion on one leg of the line.

Check for noise when it happens. I ended up recording it to prove to the engineer what was happening.

Are you using an IPv4 or IPv6 address for your BQM?

Edit: If you're not sure then check if it starts with something like "2a02:" then its IPv6

Edited by deleted (Sun 28-May-23 10:04:03)

Although there are a lot more dropped packets (red) on that graph than there ought to be, my feeling is that that will disappear if you can get rid of the virtually solid blue- this means that the average time your router is taking to respond to a ping is greater than 150mSec (graph maximum) for some reason, and occasionally takes more than 500mSec (ie treated as a dropped packet), but otherwise seems to be working properly. Just very slowly

Why it's doing that is a good question... but an obvious point is rather than just disconnecting/reconnecting, have you tried rebooting the router? That 24 hour interval could suggest that some (probably internal) task the router performs at that interval is getting itself stuck and hogging the CPU, if so then rebooting may clear it.

The way you connect isn't entirely clear- you say: "I always tested on a cabled and wifi connection", I think you need to eliminate wifi entirely (preferably by switching it off) to see if that has any effect. If it does then it will at least tell you where to look!

And an obvious suggestion- can you try another router?

A remote possibility that occurs to me is that you could be subject to a DOS attack, but I've no idea how to check for that.

Hi Bill

I am concerned its not the router responding to the ping but a device on there network (via IPv6).

Hopefully the OP will be able to confirm.

If it's an IPv6 BQM then agreed, but do Sky support IPv6? I'm not sure.

In reply to a post by billford:

If it's an IPv6 BQM then agreed, but do Sky support IPv6? I'm not sure.

Yes, they were one of the first. The big consumer ISP that still doesn't is Virgin Media.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 28-May-23 10:53:53)

Ah, I didn't know that, thanks.

Where did the Android tablet come from, have I missed something?

Ugh, ignore that bit, crossing two threads 😳

Hi Bill,
The graph starts with 2a02 so that's ipv6?
I have reset the router 4 times, rebooted the router with the engineers here, and the Sky WiFi engineer couldn't find anything wrong over WiFi, no devices miss behaving. The router does this even with a cabled connection plus its a new router from Sky that I have only had for 3 weeks and is doing exactly the same thing as my old router, the only difference now is that I have 5 less devices connected to this new router because I never set them up to it, trying to fault find.
How do I turn off WiFi at the router? Or should I just turn off all WiFi devices instead and check?

Been there, done that myself- you are forgiven

In reply to a post by Del1701:

The graph starts with 2a02 so that's ipv6?

Yes, so you can forget most of what I suggested (for the moment, anyway).

Because it's IPv6 it means that tbb are pinging the device you used when you set up the BQM, not the router. Depending what it is and what it's doing it could explain (most of) the problem.

You need to find the router's IP address on the WAN (internet) side, doesn't matter whether you choose the IPv6 or IPv4 one, and edit the BQM to use that. Both addresses will be available somewhere on the router interface, but I can't help with where, I'm afraid. Hopefully that will get rid of the solid blue and will show how the WAN is behaving rather than have your LAN possibly confusing the issue.


eta- you could even set up a second BQM, one using the IPv6 address and the other using the IPv4 one. It's not entirely necessary to do that, but it can come in handy sometimes.


eta2- I gotta go now, so can someone else take over? Ta.

Edited by billford (Sun 28-May-23 11:18:22)

In reply to a post by Del1701:

The graph starts with 2a02 so that's ipv6?

If you want to private message me the IPv6 address setup on your BQM I will let you know what you need to change it too so your router responds which should give you a more realistic view of your connection

I think I have set up the proper graph now to the router via IPP6 Global Adress and IP4 🤞 guess I wait a day to get some results.

I've got the monitor checking my router now on ip6 and ip4 so I'll be back tomorrow morning with it, hopefully someone can see what's possibly happening with it as I have the Sky engineer coming tomorrow afternoon again 😬

Ok looks like your original was a wi-fi connected device on IPv6 as others suggested. This is very much dependent on the wi-fi signal so it may in itself be worth looking into - I don't think that's something you should worry about right now.

Your new IPv4 and IPv6 graphs are I presume to the router and appear 'in sync'. This probably rules out network issues as IP layer. The packetloss isn't too large and your latency chops up a bit (yellow spikes) probably when you're using the Internet. The BQM isn't too bad. It's not going to explain resyncs but it will usually show a pretty solid red line if it happens as it will take a minute or so to re-sync.

Ultimately if Sky have supplied your router then it's kind of their problem - Maybe make sure you have no wi-fi extenders.

Are you connected to the master socket? The first socket in the house?
Have you made sure to disconnect all extension wiring? Others mentioned it here before. If something intermittent is causing interference it may cause the line to resync.

Are you seeing your router re-sync at slower speed for sure? Can Sky see that their end?

I think this is a quite likely cause. I think I got 20Mbps more at my place by disconnecting extension wiring which was causing problems on my FTTC.

seb

Hi seb, I am connected to the master socket and on the first sky engineer visit he replaced the faceplate so I don't have to use filters any more. I do have a Sky booster upstairs to extend the signal to my daughters mini box. Sky say they show a constant 78Mb to my master socket and Open Reach have confirmed this so I don't doubt that but I can't help thinking that Sky might be dropping the speed on purpose if they have over subscribed in my area and are trying to save bandwidth, if that's the right term.

The problem today is that when the sky engineer is here once I or they have disconnected/reconnected the session it will be back up to speed and I won't know for 24 hours if the problem has been fixed.

Does anyone know why the router would automatically drop the throughput speed to half every 24 hours if the fault is with my setup? If I had a faulty device I would of thought that the speed would drop at any time, not at every 24 hours like clock work 🤔 my setup has been the same for years apart from upgrading phones or tablets but there have been no new devices since this began with the old router or this new 3 week old router.

I want to try to be proactive with the engineer visit today and start with the assumption that the fault is at my end so I plan to turn off all connected devices apart from my TV so I can show them a cabled speed test and the connected sky equipment, that way they I don't think they can blame a miss behaving phone or tablet.

I have been on the Sky community forums as well and this fault has been happening to a lot of Sky's customers and none of us have found a solution yet.

So here is my new graph, ip6 to the router, does anything look out of place with it?
Thanks fr everyone's help so far 😉

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/...

Edited by Del1701 (Mon 29-May-23 08:43:41)

In reply to a post by Del1701:

So here is my new graph, ip6 to the router, does anything look out of place with it?

Looks OK to me, so far anyway. The "base level" ping (green) is better than mine (here) and I always thought that mine was quite good for FTTC

Packet loss is higher than it really should be, but not enough to get in a panic about.

Edited by billford (Mon 29-May-23 09:20:32)

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by billford:

If it's an IPv6 BQM then agreed, but do Sky support IPv6? I'm not sure.

Yes, they were one of the first. The big consumer ISP that still doesn't is Virgin Media.

And Talktalk. And Plusnet.

Thanks Bill,
So if the problem is at my end why would it show as a throughput fault every 24 hours? This is the bit I don't understand, surely if I had a bad device as soon as I disconnect it the fault would correct itself? Or if it didn't a simple restart of the router would correct it.
Or could sky be being underhanded somehow and issuing commands to the router to do this to save bandwidth so to speak?

When I set up this new router I done a speed test after each device was added to check if it was one of my devices but ithey were all ok 🤔

In reply to a post by Del1701:

So if the problem is at my end why would it show as a throughput fault every 24 hours?

I don't know

You suggest that some other Sky users have a similar problem, so (to me) it sounds like it could be a piece of kit or some aspect of Sky you all have/use in common. The problem is finding it or, if it's Sky, getting them to admit it.

I don't really think Sky would be deliberately halving the bandwidth for a group of users every 24 hours but it's not impossible and I've been wrong before. And a networking expert I'm not, that's well beyond my pay grade

But there are such people on this board, hopefully one of them can come up with something useful 🤞

In reply to a post by candlerb:

And Talktalk. And Plusnet.

I'd forgotten TalkTalk didn't, thought they had now. Plusnet's lack of support is just embarrasing now really given how many trials they did.

Thanks Bill for all your help 👍

Does your router show the VDSL line rate a.k.a. "sync speed"? Also "attainable speed"? If so, what do you see normally, and what do you see when the speed drops?

If the sync speed stays at ~80000 even after the speed drop, it implies that Sky are doing some rate limiting at their BRAS.

Normally, if they got this wrong, it would mean you'd get 40Mbps all the time. But it's conceivable that they set it to the correct profile on initial connection, and after some sort of 24-hour timeout it switches to the wrong profile (*).

The same could apply to the DSLAM profile: it might get set to the right profile on initial connection, and then drop down 24 hours later (e.g. when DLM decides to adjust the line). But in that case, you'd see the sync speed drop down.

Therefore: keep a record of everything you do, with timestamps:
- the measurements of sync speed and attainable speed
- the throughput measurements (e.g. speedtest)
- whenever you reset the session

Over a week or more, this should give a comprehensive picture of what's happening, which they can also cross-reference with logs at their side.

(*) I believe Sky use DHCP, so a possible source of timeout is DHCP lease renewal time. Does your router show the lease on the WAN interface, including the time remaining? If so, that's something else to record periodically. If you see the DHCP lease drop down to a certain value, and then jump up, and at the same time you see the throughput drop, that would be a smoking gun.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Does your router show the VDSL line rate a.k.a. "sync speed"? Also "attainable speed"? If so, what do you see normally, and what do you see when the speed drops?

If the sync speed stays at ~80000 even after the speed drop, it implies that Sky are doing some rate limiting at their BRAS.

Normally, if they got this wrong, it would mean you'd get 40Mbps all the time. But it's conceivable that they set it to the correct profile on initial connection, and after some sort of 24-hour timeout it switches to the wrong profile (*).

The same could apply to the DSLAM profile: it might get set to the right profile on initial connection, and then drop down 24 hours later (e.g. when DLM decides to adjust the line). But in that case, you'd see the sync speed drop down.

Therefore: keep a record of everything you do, with timestamps:
- the measurements of sync speed and attainable speed
- the throughput measurements (e.g. speedtest)
- whenever you reset the session

Over a week or more, this should give a comprehensive picture of what's happening, which they can also cross-reference with logs at their side.

(*) I believe Sky use DHCP, so a possible source of timeout is DHCP lease renewal time. Does your router show the lease on the WAN interface, including the time remaining? If so, that's something else to record periodically. If you see the DHCP lease drop down to a certain value, and then jump up, and at the same time you see the throughput drop, that would be a smoking gun.

Thanks for all info candlerb, the Sky Engineer just left and after all the testing which proved a throughput fault he rebooted all the Sky equipment to make sure it was meshed properly but that didn't solve the problem, used his test router which still never solved the problem so he changed the filter on my socket and bingo my speed went straight back up to where it should be. That's the third new filter I have had since the fault began 🙄
But because it seemed to be fixed now the engineer left me with a spare as a get by if it goes wrong again while I get Sky to come out and replace it with one of their new faceplate filters again.
Now the true test will be in 24 hours if the problem comes back but if it does you have given me a lot of things to check and keep a record of, that's if I can find the info on the router admin page 😬

I don't think Sky would drop a sync speed on purpose. Are you seeing a reduction in your sync speed or just your speed tests?
You should also try to disconnect all extensions from the masker socket as those can interfere with the signal
The booster can probably be ruled out if you're on a cables connection to your router when testing.

If the sync speed (the speed negotiated by your router and the cabinet) drops that's line interfererence.. so it's the router, something nearby, the phone line or extensions (even non broadband extensions..).. I wonder if the face plate isn't working and the extensions are causing an issue if you have some?


Soundsfrom your last post like it may well be the faceplate

In reply to a post by seb:

I don't think Sky would drop a sync speed on purpose. Are you seeing a reduction in your sync speed or just your speed tests?
You should also try to disconnect all extensions from the masker socket as those can interfere with the signal
The booster can probably be ruled out if you're on a cables connection to your router when testing.

If the sync speed (the speed negotiated by your router and the cabinet) drops that's line interfererence.. so it's the router, something nearby, the phone line or extensions (even non broadband extensions..).. I wonder if the face plate isn't working and the extensions are causing an issue if you have some?


Soundsfrom your last post like it may well be the faceplate

Thanks seb,
When the engineer came yesterday I had already turned off and unplugged everything apart from the sky equipment and my TV which is cabled to the router to show him the fault. The strange thing is that the open reach engineer checked the faceplate on the socket and said it was good but he did replace the filter, the next sky engineer then replaced the filter again with Sky's new filters that are now faceplates and then yesterday it was replaced again but the engineer checked the speed before and after he changed it and that was the problem.
I don't know why my filters would keep going wrong and giving me a throughput fault though. I have just checked my speed again and it has dropped from 77Mb download when the engineer was here yesterday to 56.2Mb download this morning, which is below Sky's minimum garaunteed speed to me but only by 5Mb so I'll just keep an eye on it for a day or two and see what happens 😬

Edited by Del1701 (Tue 30-May-23 07:32:57)

Well 24 hours later the fault came back so I got back onto Sky and the advisor I spoke,e to had me go into the router settings and separate the 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz bands because Sky routers and Sky q boxes sync between them and look onto the 5Ghz WiFi spot but it never worked 😞 so tomorrow I have an open reach engineer coming out to check things in my house plus back to the cabinet because Sky now think the faults at the cabinet so fingers crossed it gets sorted tomorrow 🤞

Another update, open reach came out and checked the cabinet, telegraph pole and socket and there's nothing wrong with them, the engineer told me it's a throughput issue which is caused by a hot vp on sky's end and that's why I'm being throttled.
So I phoned sky and told them exactly that, they left me on hold for ages and when the advisor came back they said that the open reach engineer should never of told me that as it is catagorically not their fault, but because of all my engineer visits they are willing to let me out of my contract early 😳 but as a last resort they can send out their top sky engineer to try and fix it, if I'm still not satisfied I can still cancel. Seems to me the open reach engineer was right, but I am waiting for their final engineer just incase they can fix it but I highly doubt it 😒

In reply to a post by Del1701:

Seems to me the open reach engineer was right

I am not convinced the issue lies with Sky, its easy with FTTC faults to throw mud at others so you can quickly get out the door.

This thread has reached the second page without any VDSL stats being retrieved from when the connection is working fine and when it's slow, so all people can do is guess. If the rate isn't falling and the VDSL sync is holding stable then there's not much else Openreach could be responsible for, and I've never heard of the cabinet link back to the OLT running hot.

In reply to a post by jpm:

This thread has reached the second page without any VDSL stats being retrieved from when the connection is working fine and when it's slow, so all people can do is guess. If the rate isn't falling and the VDSL sync is holding stable then there's not much else Openreach could be responsible for, and I've never heard of the cabinet link back to the OLT running hot.

What's the VDSL stats?

In reply to a post by Del1701:

What's the VDSL stats?

Something like this Linky

In reply to a post by dect:

In reply to a post by Del1701:

What's the VDSL stats?

Something like this Linky

Oh the router stats, well my stats show that I have the correct speed going into the router but it's only sending out half speed if that's the info you need.

You need to put the stats in the thread and not just say what you think they mean

Here's my router stats,

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/fTbM6cYv/Smart-Select-20230601-...[/img]

There's nothing there that looks like a fault that an Openreach visit can solve. What speeds are you getting when you test using a device connected via a cable to the Sky router?

I'm getting 37.4 and as I said at the beginning if I turn the router off for half an hour or more or go into the routers maintenace page and disconnecting then reconnect the session my speed goes back up to 78-80 download but that only lasts for 24 hours and I have to repeat the process again.