FTTC Connection

Can someone tell me what the BT connection protocol is for Fibre to the Cabinet? I think it is PPoE and any device that will connect using that protocol doesn't need a modem and subject to cable/plug type will plug straight to the BT connection point. Is that correct?

Reason I ask is that I'm looking at a Synology RT2600ac and I'm pretty sure that doesn't have a modem but the spec says it will do PPoE for the WAN side so should plug straight in the BT socket. Otherwise I would need something like the Draytek 130 between the socket and the Synology 2600.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

Can someone tell me what the BT connection protocol is for Fibre to the Cabinet? I think it is PPoE and any device that will connect using that protocol doesn't need a modem and subject to cable/plug type will plug straight to the BT connection point. Is that correct?

No. You need a modem for VDSL such as the HG612. A router connected to that would have to supply the PPPoE userid and password. I have a Qotom running OPNsense that does that. A connection to the 2nd ethernet port of the HG612 lets me see the connection details such as the speed etc.

Reason I ask is that I'm looking at a Synology RT2600ac and I'm pretty sure that doesn't have a modem but the spec says it will do PPoE for the WAN side so should plug straight in the BT socket. Otherwise I would need something like the Draytek 130 between the socket and the Synology 2600.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

No. You need a modem for VDSL such as the HG612.

Which are obsolete. A current FTTC/VDSL modem would be the Draytek 130.
https://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-130

Other products are available, e.g. some Zyxel boxes can be configured to act in 'bridge' mode and act as an FTTC/VDSL modem.

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

No. You need a modem for VDSL such as the HG612. A router connected to that would have to supply the PPPoE userid and password. I have a Qotom running OPNsense that does that. A connection to the 2nd ethernet port of the HG612 lets me see the connection details such as the speed etc.

That's a bit of a blow.... I've always had the impression that the BT socket presents as PPoE but obviously I'm wrong. According to the blurb, the Synology 2600 accepts PPoE so I would have thought you put the connection details in there.

I think I've still got an HG612 somewhere but that's outdated so it would mean dropping the money on a Vigor 130 which I think is just about the only stand alone modem around, unless Netgear still do one. The Vigor does seem a popular choice though.

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

That's a bit of a blow.... I've always had the impression that the BT socket presents as PPoE but obviously I'm wrong.

A BT (actually Openreach) telephone point is not a computer connection, it is a telephone connection. This needs a DSL modem to do the conversion from computer to telephone. The cable is not ethernet, but telephone with RJ11 connectors on each end.

An FTTP (full fibre) wall port is already a computer device known as an ONT, this would take your Synology router directly with an ethernet cable with RJ45 connectors on each end.

If you had Virgin Cable you could set their provided box as a modem and also use your Synology router with an ethernet cable using RJ45 connectors.

I think I've still got an HG612 somewhere but that's outdated so it would mean dropping

Try it first, if you get a lot of disconnections you can upgrade. Quite a few people still using HG612 modems successfully, but they can be 10years or more old.

Edited by jchamier (Sun 15-Oct-23 18:44:48)

In reply to a post by Tacitus:

In reply to a post by Michael_Chare:

No. You need a modem for VDSL such as the HG612. A router connected to that would have to supply the PPPoE userid and password. I have a Qotom running OPNsense that does that. A connection to the 2nd ethernet port of the HG612 lets me see the connection details such as the speed etc.

That's a bit of a blow.... I've always had the impression that the BT socket presents as PPoE but obviously I'm wrong.

In the very early days of FTTC, if I remember rightly, it was sold as a service with a managed modem and the demarcation point was the ethernet port. But it soon became a "wires only" service where the service provider had to supply a VDSL modem, which could be either integrated into the router or a separate box (usually the former).

The Openreach master socket has never had an ethernet port though - the modem was a separate box.

Incidentally, the FTTC circuit is a transparent layer 2 service and doesn't care whether the traffic carried is PPPoE or not: that's entirely down to the service provider. Some SPs use PPPoE, and other SPs use IPoE plus DHCP. If the SP you're referring to is BT Retail then it is PPPoE I believe.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

A current FTTC/VDSL modem would be the Draytek 130.
https://www.draytek.co.uk/products/business/vigor-130

The Vigor 130 is difficult to find new, whilst not officially end-of-life as far as I can ascertain I'm not sure it is still being manufactured. The replacement is the Vigor 167.

Thanks the website wasn’t clear.

It's on the EOL list at https://www.draytek.co.uk/information/eol-product-eq...

Yes you're right it's me that's getting confused.

When I first got FTTC which must be near 10 years ago, the ISP modem didn't arrive and the Openreach guy left me with the HG612. I had one of the earlier Apple Airports which does PPoE so I used that as a temporary thing. Somewhere along the line I'd forgotten that I must have plugged it into the HG612 and become convinced that the BT socket is offering PPoE which it doesn't.

I shall have to give the HG612 a go, pony up for a Vigor 167 or look for another piece of kit with built in modem. A Fritz!Box would probably do the job but apart from Amazon there don't appear to be any suppliers in the UK apart from Amazon as Zen only offer them to their own customers.

Wonderful thing memory isn't it

The TP-Link TD-W9970 is availble new, a lot cheaper than drayteks and can be set to modem only mode.
https://www.tp-link.com/uk/support/faq/1332/

You will probably find that the HG612 works fine, I know they are old but I have used one on FTTC for years with no problems. A plus for the HG612 is that with unlocked firmware you can access it to see full line stats. (info on Kitz website) I do have a spare and also a Zyxel VMG8924-B10A which can be used in bridge mode.

I would not consider the Draytek Vigor modems, they are expensive and I don't believe they have the Broadcom modem chipset, which the HG612 has and is generally considered to be better on most FTTC lines.

The TP-Link TD-W9970 has various versions and the latest ones do not have Broadcom chipsets.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

A plus for the HG612 is that with unlocked firmware you can access it to see full line stats. (info on Kitz website)

Thanks for the info. I've managed to dig out the old HG612, it was only used briefly with an Apple Airport until the ISP modem arrived.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

I would not consider the Draytek Vigor modems, they are expensive and I don't believe they have the Broadcom modem chipset, which the HG612 has and is generally considered to be better on most FTTC lines.

Must admit the price did put me off a bit, although I've generally found Draytek kit to be reliable. On my line though the Broadcom chipset does have the edge, although to be fair there's not a lot in it.

In reply to a post by Realalemadrid:

The TP-Link TD-W9970 has various versions and the latest ones do not have Broadcom chipsets.

Never really looked at TP-Link. They've always seemed more style than substance but each to their own..... Billion were once well regarded but you don't hear much of them nowadays.

BT *Business* Hubs can be put into bridge mode and are dirt cheap on eBay for hardware that is brand new. It's not quite as neat as a Draytek modem and will consume more power, but I wouldn't want to be spending big on a VDSL2 modem this late in the service's life.

I have an ZyXel VMG1312-B10A that is going spare and could be had for a very reasonable price. Broadcom chip set and easily accessible stats via a second cable. PM me if you are interested. Been meaning to fleabay it but not quite got round to it yet!