Query - Fibre from pole or street side?

Hi, could anyone point me to an online checker or suggest a human point of contact to learn whether a residential fibre installation next week will come from the telegraph pole or the street. My elderly mother cannot cope with modern life, and I want to prepare her for what *exactly* to expect. I'd have though Openreach could tell me, but they don't seem very public facing for fielding answers to such questions. Thanks.

In reply to a post by lestar:

Hi, could anyone point me to an online checker or suggest a human point of contact to learn whether a residential fibre installation next week will come from the telegraph pole or the street. My elderly mother cannot cope with modern life, and I want to prepare her for what *exactly* to expect. I'd have though Openreach could tell me, but they don't seem very public facing for fielding answers to such questions. Thanks.

Here is a BT Checker, enter her postcode and select submit, then select the property from the list and select submit.

There should be a line half way down below the table that says

"Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-"

If you post back the remaining details on that line we may be able to advise.

Edited by PCJM40 (Mon 13-Nov-23 22:24:01)

I would say if the pole near your mum has lots of plastic boxes on top, or has a large box stuck to the side, then it is likely to be a pole to property installation, otherwise OR would have had to lay FOC into a little box in front of your mums property, a bit like VM or its predecessors did.

In almost every case , if the existing Openreach copper pair service is overhead then that’s how OR FTTP would be provided, and if underground service, that will be how OR FTTP would be delivered , as a general rule , Openreach don’t install new poles in underground service areas , without first having extensive consultation with the local authority, residents etc, but it’s very rare to even consider this , obviously other providers don’t have to have the same policy.
As pointed out , it’s possible to check the survey notes for addresses that have OR FTTP availability and know the intended installation method

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 15-Nov-23 08:42:47)

Thank you very much, and thank you everyone who replied.

The remaining text stated "Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues."

So, an Over Head line, I can now prepare my mother for what to expect.

Thanks.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Openreach don’t install new poles in underground service areas , without first having extensive consultation with the local authority, residents etc, but it’s very rare to even consider this , obviously other providers don’t have to have the same policy.

Extensive consultation? 😂
It's an A4 piece of paper stuck to the local lamppost. Poles are permitted development and need no permission.

It's correct that as a general rule that FTTP will more than likely follow the existing copper route underground or overground.

However if the copper lines are direct buried or the ducts are full and Openreach need to install some poles for FTTP, they do just that.

In my experience they are no different to other providers with how they deal with consulting over poles.
The 1st my local council knew about the 11 new Openreach poles in my town was when a few residents informed them after reading the notices posted on lampposts.

Openreach simply hit the headlines less than other networks as they have the luxury of an existing nationwide network meaning they have less need to install poles in fully underground areas.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Openreach don’t install new poles in underground service areas , without first having extensive consultation with the local authority, residents etc, but it’s very rare to even consider this , obviously other providers don’t have to have the same policy.

Extensive consultation? 😂
It's an A4 piece of paper stuck to the local lamppost. Poles are permitted development and need no permission.

It's correct that as a general rule that FTTP will more than likely follow the existing copper route underground or overground.

However if the copper lines are direct buried or the ducts are full and Openreach need to install some poles for FTTP, they do just that.

In my experience they are no different to other providers with how they deal with consulting over poles.
The 1st my local council knew about the 11 new Openreach poles in my town was when a few residents informed them after reading the notices posted on lampposts.

Openreach simply hit the headlines less than other networks as they have the luxury of an existing nationwide network meaning they have less need to install poles in fully underground areas.

A pre pole notice is all that’s required in an area that is already served by overhead means , even in these places the local authority is given notice it’s part of the process of putting up a pole , it’s something of a formality, but to claim the council are unaware is wrong , you simply asked the wrong council officer, or more likely you are simply stating nonsense that someone else told you.

In areas that are exclusively underground ( so as far as residential development that’s anything from the 1960’s onwards ) OR don’t simply put up poles with just a pre pole notice in these locations
Perhaps with your extensive experience , you can point to an area where Openreach poles were put in a previously underground service area with some actual evidence , like a link to an article in a reputable source .
In your experience OR are no different to other providers, really , what’s your experience in this area in what way are you qualified to provide any authoritative opinion ?

I’m quoting the actual Openreach policy, there are ‘minor’ exceptions, if a temporary site office ( double stacked portacabins for a road build scheme or commercial building ) a temporary pole could be used , admittedly they occasional remain long after the site is closed , but that’s not the same as a FTTP rollout using poles where non very previous visible

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 18-Nov-23 12:56:45)

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

or more likely you are simply stating nonsense that someone else told you.

You do realise that the local authority are informed after the notice has been put up not before so what John posted was correct. In his case the residents got to the council before the council were informed by Openreach.

Wrong.

A pole was erected directly outside our house without any consultation. I checked with the council.

As others have stated there was an A4 notice posted and one can object but if it is required then there is next to no chance of getting it moved or removed.

Part of the process for putting up a new Openreach pole , is a pre pole notice , this states ‘it’s out intention to advise ( then the local authority name is inserted ) , of our intention to locate a pole ( insert the location ) the local authority is advised before the pole is erected ( but obviously after the pre pole notice ) , but it’s deemed consent so there no need to wait any longer than the standard notice period for the council to respond ( it’s unlikely they will ) but that’s not the same as the council stating they knew nothing about it , the council are not required to agree , that is assumed , but if they wanted they could object within the appropriate timescale, unless a pole is required to restore someone back to service, it’s weeks or months potentially between the pre pole notice and the pole actuality going up , it’s also the scheme isn’t implemented so a pre pole notice dusts but a pole never appears.

Its not the ‘law’ that restricts Openreach putting up poles in underground service areas , it’s policy, if a pole appears outside someone’s property, the notice on the actual pole ( not the pre pole notice ) outlines the way to complain , a complaint produces a visit from the planner that decided a pole was needed and the location it were to be placed
If the complaint is justified it could mean the pole is located elsewhere ( basically the complaint results in the ‘selfish’ request of ‘don’t put it outside my house put it outside next door ‘ a justifiable complaint can result in it being removed and an alternative method used ,but a complaint in itself isn’t reason enough to reposition or remove the pole , if the complainant could , for example, produce a planning application / approval for a drop kerb and driveway and this pole would interfere with that , then that the pole would be moved .

An individual pole outside a property, in an area already served by poles is not against OR policy if it were ( for example) to get around dropwire spans being too long , or to gain an acceptable height over a road , but , putting up many poles for a new FTTP network is not OR policy , if it were , then there wouldn’t be any need for excavation in footpaths , toby boxes etc , there wouldn’t be any ‘built to curtilage’ if poles were the go to solution in DIG areas because poles are many times cheaper than retrofitting duct and joint boxes

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 18-Nov-23 19:12:35)

Plenty of poles being installed by Alt Nets that have nothing to do with OR.

And where is the pre-pole notice posted?

If there is no pole in the vicinity then it can't be stuck to a pole.

When it’s Openreach pre pole notices , it could be on a lamppost, a street sign post , a wooden stake driven into the ground with the notice stapled to it , the notice doesn’t need to be at the exact location of the pole , but reasonably close to it , there is always a chance that 5 mins after the notice is placed , a passer by removes it anyway that’s why it’s required to take a photo of the notice in situ and attach it to the survey return, it then becomes part of the pole application and the job pack for the pole erecting people.
TBH , if the notice had ‘outside No.7 Coronation Street’ that may still leave a certain amount of uncertainty for anyone with an interest, at survey the exact location is noted and recorded with a photo , and the survey tools also use a OS map reference to pinpoint the location although it’s always possible that buried services could mean the location changes slightly when the installation team visit .

Should someone complain because of the pre pole notice and get a visit from the planner , this will probably be the first time they know for sure the exact intended location ….it’s also possible the ground will be marked with biodegradable paint ( x marks the spot ) .

Edited by Iniltous (Sun 19-Nov-23 19:41:41)

I currently have a copper VDSL based broadband and I am beginning plans for switching to a fibre to the premise.

I have used the BT Checker link kindly provided by @PCJM40 and it indicates what I suspected, that OpenReach would intend to run the fibre cable from the telephone pole in my street. This is indeed how my current copper landline reaches my house.

I would however much prefer that the new fibre cable be run underneath my footpath to my house. This is partly down to the fact that the copper cable goes to a location in my house that I do not want to use for all this equipment, sockets, etc. and partly as the fibre connection once installed is likely to outlast me if not the house! So getting it the way I want is likely to be a one time opportunity.

Whilst as discussed in this thread getting a new telephone pole is a virtual impossibility - and not what I want, is there anyway to get OpenReach to install via underground duct despite the fact I do currently have a telephone pole connecting to my house?

The underground route to where I want the ONT etc. is next to my front door and the route via my front path underground is short and straight and internally ends up in my under stairs cupboard where I want it. The current route from the telephone pole goes to the upper floor of my house, along the righthand side of my house, and along the back of my house to an upstairs bedroom. Whilst this location is possible it is not desirable to me. Furthermore even if we try going from again the top-right of my house and then down to the ground and try going across to the font left, either this will be a longer route or harder to do underground as it would need to go around a bay window and under the entire width of the front garden and then along the left hand wall past the front door.

If you have a few thousand to spare and several months, you might get OR to run an underground cable but don't hold your breath.


You might be able to get the dropwire termination point moved and from there straight down the wall and then through to where you want the ONT.