Digital Voice | FTTC>FTTP BTLine ?

If anyone has an idea on what happens in this situation I'd appreciate you help.

I have BT Line (as I originally needed it for Broadband)

That broadband is with another Company (now been upgraded to Fibre to the Cabinet.)

I don't use BT For any calls or even have a actual physical Phone, as I use a mobile phone.

OK, that's the scene set, now BT comes along with this digital Voice and copper line discontinuing. . .

My Questiona are:
1. What actually happens when they come to remove the copper / terminate? my BT LIne?
2. Will my broadband still work from the other company (ie they leave the copper from the cabinet to my premises)
3. Will I have to get broadband with BT?
4. Will I have to cancel and restart a "new" FTTC / FTTP with my broandband supplier?


Maybe I should just get Fibre to the Premies now - and then they don't matter.
(I was going to before but something came up)
Maybe I should just let them install the fibre to my premisses (if thats what they do?), then get BB elsewhere, saving an installation fee?

Anyhoo, if anyone has more info on what's in store please let me know.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

Anyhoo, if anyone has more info on what's in store please let me know.

At some point (likely end 2024 or early 2025) you will be asked to choose if you move the line completely to the internet provider or you give up internet and leave the line with BT Retail as a voice only line. The internet provider may choose to offer voice services, but some will not (e.g. Plusnet). If you want internet and voice you will need to then move to a new combined company for both.

If the internet company offers voice, they will move your phone number to the router and you will plug your “landline” phone or DECT base station into the router, and no longer the socket on the wall.

Separated voice & internet services has been an expensive way of buying broadband and voice for a while, so probably a lot of people in the UK are no longer in this position.

End of PSTN in 2025 has nothing to do with end of the copper line. Only if your town has FTTP and sufficient coverage will Openreach look at ending support of the copper. Unlikely for much of the country by 2025.

Digital Voice is only a service if you take BT’s Broadband, you won’t get this if you use a different internet company (e.g. Plusnet, TalkTalk, Vodafone etc).

Edited by jchamier (Mon 27-Nov-23 19:06:41)

Do you mean you pay separate bills to different providers for "line rental" and "broadband"?

Your broadband provider will contact you some time closer to Dec 2025 to say that they will need to cease your service, unless you migrate it to a new offering. That's because the broadband is linked to the underlying analogue phone service, and that service will be ceased.

Since analogue phone lines are no longer available for sale (since 5 Sep 2023), it's not possible to migrate the existing phone service to anyone else. So you will have to work with your ISP to choose the best way to migrate you to SOGEA, which is broadband without analogue voice. The chances are that they will be able to do it in a way that doesn't result in you losing service for an extended period of time.

The best time to do this will be at contract renewal time.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

Maybe I should just get Fibre to the Premies now - and then they don't matter.
(I was going to before but something came up)

If that option is available to you, then yes, that's by far the safest and easiest solution, and future-proofs your connection. You can even run the fibre and copper in parallel for a while, for maximum certainty.

Note that if you have *Openreach* FTTP available to you, *and* your exchange is in a "copper stop sell" area, then you won't be able to migrate the copper service to SOGEA anyway; the only option available to you will be to take FTTP.

If you're talking about FTTP being available from an alternative network provider (Altnet) then think carefully about whether they provide a reliable, good quality service, before choosing them. Some small altnets don't have a clue about how to run an ISP. Whilst the fibre itself may be reliable, the rest of their network may not be. Do your research.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

Maybe I should just let them install the fibre to my premisses (if thats what they do?), then get BB elsewhere, saving an installation fee?

You generally won't have to pay an installation fee for FTTP: although some ISPs charge a small setup fee this would apply whether or not you already had an FTTP line. Just order it. The ISP swallows the Openreach installation charge; it's one reason why you're likely to be locked into a 12-24 month contract. (Some providers have 1-month rolling contracts, but then you do pay a hefty setup fee)

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

1. What actually happens when they come to remove the copper / terminate? my BT LIne?

Your copper line won't be removed. The dialtone on the line will stop in Dec 2025, and the ceasing of that service will in turn trigger the ceasing of the attached broadband. But you can always re-order broadband, from the same or different ISP (unless you're in a copper stop-sell area and have Openreach FTTP available to order)

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

2. Will my broadband still work from the other company (ie they leave the copper from the cabinet to my premises)

The copper remains. Always. But as explained above, the broadband will be terminated unless you've migrated it to a SOGEA-based service before then.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

3. Will I have to get broadband with BT?
4. Will I have to cancel and restart a "new" FTTC / FTTP with my broandband supplier?

Moving your broadband to BT is one option available to you, and arguably might give you a slightly lower risk of service interruption - at the cost of being locked into a 24 month contract with BT. But to be honest, any decent ISP should be able to manage this takeover for you; that is, they will replace the two separate services with one new service. This could be your existing ISP, or a new one.

Ceasing the line completely before taking the new service is very drastic, not necessary, and guarantees you an outage which could be a couple of weeks.

As candlerb quite rightly answered all of your questions, they won't remove your copper line just yet!
1. The copper stays in place for FTTC but instead you are going to get SOGEA, which is a Single Order Generic Ethernet Access. This means broadband without analogue telephone service. You'll of-course still need the copper as the FTTC service is still being delivered part copper.

Like for example I'm on Digital Voice with BT FTTC. What I'm getting at the moment is basically SOGEA. Plugging telephone into the master faceplate socket has no dial tone. But connecting an old vintage telephone to the router works! You also get this new Alexa wireless phone that registers with the router.
When absolutely 100% of all of the UK gets upgraded to FTTP then this copper line will be defunct. There will come a time when FTTC as a service will be retired, just like some ISPs are retiring ADSL. The same way there's hardly any dial-up services any more.

When all packages eventually migrate to FTTP only, I suppose then it will be safe to tear away the copper. But this is a step by step gradual process. Only analogue phone is being retired by December 2025.

2. Your broadband will still work, the ISPs will just migrate to Digital Voice just like what BT are doing. Possibly upgrading their supplied routers with a telephone port. FTTC will remain for many more years to come while the UK is being upgraded to FTTP. Obviously there's no way Openreach will remove the copper without first building those areas with Full Fibre as that will leave people without broadband.

3. I'm sure you won't be stuck with BT only. There will be more and more ISPs that will offer Digital Voice as part of the FTTC package. Simply the analogue phone service will no longer be supplied. But if you wish you can still migrate to Digital Voice and retain your old telephone number! I migrated from TalkTalk FTTC analogue phone to BT FTTC+Digital Voice 15 months ago. I simply entered my landline number during migration and the service was smoothly switched. The migration happened seamlessly.

However, if I were to now switch to an Altnet FTTP service like Community Fibre without a VOIP telephone service as part of the package and cancel BT FTTC then I'll lose my phone number. But like you, I don't care about the landline as I too use mobile phone for calls instead.

4. Only if you are migrating from FTTC to FTTP. If you already have FTTP available and you plan to take that then you'll have to cancel FTTC separately. But if you are on FTTC analogue phone most likely the ISP will simply cancel your analogue phone service and turn your service into SOGEA+Digital Voice automatically without interruption to your broadband service.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

However, if I were to now switch to an Altnet FTTP service like Community Fibre without a VOIP telephone service as part of the package and cancel BT FTTC then I'll lose my phone number. But like you, I don't care about the landline as I too use mobile phone for calls instead.

Once again incomplete and inaccurate information. You can retain your phone number if you wish by transferring to an independent VOiP provider like Sipgate or Voipfone

Thanks for all the replies, didn't know about [Single Order Generic Ethernet Access]
and, er honestly still a little confused.

Could I have terminated my unwanted BT line once I went onto FTTC?
(I just assumed I needed a "phone number & account with BT" to enable the ISP.)

Anyway that's of no consequence. best to look forward
I'm kind of grandfarthered in to a fixed priced with Zen,rolling contract which I can get out of any month, but all their current offers are quite pricey in comparison to others, and I'd be locked into a 18-month contract.
(I suppose that's going to be the case anywhere)

Another thing, as I have FTTC - I assume that means I can't get FTTP via a separate provider at the same time? (as that would help with any issues or downtime)

Not really sure what the best option is.
I just want FTTP, (No BT or phone No.) and a safe switch over. I'll have a think about it over the holidays during one of the mince pie induced torpor and see if it becomes clear.


Thanks again for the help, most useful. [getting old]

You can get FTTP via a different provider than your FTTC. It is certainly possible. The only risk is ensuring the FTTP provider is aware it is a new provide and not a replacement of the FTTC as there was a report a few weeks back from someone that the provider had assumed they were taking over the service and the old provider received a notification that the FTTC was to be ceased.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

Could I have terminated my unwanted BT line once I went onto FTTC?
(I just assumed I needed a "phone number & account with BT" to enable the ISP.)

No.

The service you are using now comprises two Openreach services: Wholesale Line Rental (WLR) and an FTTC broadband "transition" product which requires a linked WLR line.

Your phone bill goes to BT who in turn pay for the WLR; your ISP bill goes to your ISP who pay for the FTTC transition product.

However, if you cease the WLR service, it *automatically* ceases the attached FTTC on the same line, even though it's from a different company. (Openreach notifies the ISP that the service has been ceased, the ISP stops billing you, and may charge you a hefty penalty for terminating the service before the end of your contract)

With SOGEA there's a single order (SO) which activates broadband on the line, and you're paying for it all in one go.

(People think that the WLR is paying for a phone service, but really it's paying for a copper line, and the voice component is a very tiny proportion of this. This is why SOGEA is only pennies less at wholesale than WLR+FTTC)

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

I'm kind of grandfarthered in to a fixed priced with Zen,rolling contract which I can get out of any month, but all their current offers are quite pricey in comparison to others, and I'd be locked into a 18-month contract.
(I suppose that's going to be the case anywhere)

Yes, but do phone them up and talk to them. It's possible they will agree to switch you to SOGEA and retain the current price-for-life - I think I read someone on the forum reporting this. And even if they don't, you can just leave things as they are, and maybe they'll offer you a better deal closer to disconnection date.

It's also worth asking what they might offer for a move to FTTP.

In reply to a post by TransmitThis:

Another thing, as I have FTTC - I assume that means I can't get FTTP via a separate provider at the same time? (as that would help with any issues or downtime)

Absolutely you can! Just as you can have multiple copper lines installed for broadband, from different providers.

Good luck!

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

However, if I were to now switch to an Altnet FTTP service like Community Fibre without a VOIP telephone service as part of the package and cancel BT FTTC then I'll lose my phone number. But like you, I don't care about the landline as I too use mobile phone for calls instead.

Once again incomplete and inaccurate information. You can retain your phone number if you wish by transferring to an independent VOiP provider like Sipgate or Voipfone

Thanks for clarifying, I've heard of that but completely forgot of that option. But it's actually quite expensive transferring to a third party VOIP. Their services are £5-£20 a month!

Not to mention, I'd have to remain on BT FTTC for the time being. You can't simultaneously switch and at the same time retain phone number. This is only possible on the existing Openreach FTTP network or existing FTTC network where the transfer can be taken over from their end.

If you try to switch to an Altnet FTTP provider from either FTTC or Openreach FTTP the migration process is not straightforward. You have to keep hold of your current provider for a few days or else you will lose your number. You also have to manually cancel your existing service.

If I switch to Community Fibre I have only 2 options to choose their phone service for £2 extra a month or like you say switch to an independent VOIP. But I'll have to wait for a few days and keep existing BT service before migration.

This is the only obstacle we will have to go through. If I had Openreach FTTP then perhaps the procedure would be simpler. This is why having a mobile sim service from the likes of RWG is a far better option! For £2 a month you can get 750MB data 150 minutes and texts or for £20 year upfront, which is what I recently paid I get 250 minutes and texts+2GB a month. That's equivalent to £1.66 a month and is a better choice than any VOIP service you get.

Digital Voice is good if it's part of the broadband package but if you have to pay significantly extra then it isn't worth it. Losing phone number is no big deal. For 99% of the users broadband speeds and reliability are the number 1 priority when switching provider. Most people will not really care about losing their phone service.

For 99% of the users broadband speeds and reliability are the number 1 priority when switching provider. Most people will not really care about losing their phone service

84% of statistics are made up on the spot...

I suspect that is not a realistic statistic. There are a fair number of people who would have had the same number for years and have shared that number with lots of friends, family and companies. For some of us (like me) the landline is less important and I dropped it completely last year and the house is now solely mobile but for others the landline number is almost a part of their identity - and I suspect a lot more than 1% of the country fall into that group.