BT and EE actually have different core networks (?)

Went to a friend's flat over the weekend. He recently got EE installed. Out of curiosity, I ran a traceroute on a game server (94.199.215.74) we play.

EE:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.50.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 172.16.10.181
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 213.121.98.128
5 7 ms 4 ms 2 ms 87.237.20.130
6 3 ms 2 ms 3 ms 87.237.21.58
7 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms ae2-2021.fra20.core-backbone.com [80.255.14.6]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 101 ms 18 ms 23 ms fra11.cc1.as48314.net [45.91.100.239]
10 19 ms 26 ms 26 ms fra4.cc1.as48314.net [45.91.100.38]
11 16 ms 15 ms 15 ms 94.199.215.74

BT:
1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 192.168.50.1
2 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 172.16.10.238
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 5 ms 5 ms 5 ms 62.172.102.76
5 6 ms 5 ms 5 ms peer3-et0-1-9.redbus.ukcore.bt.net [62.172.102.25]
6 6 ms 7 ms 5 ms 195.99.126.245
7 32 ms 28 ms 27 ms ae5-11.RT.IRX.FKT.DE.retn.net [87.245.232.253]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 27 ms 25 ms 22 ms fra11.cc1.as48314.net [45.91.100.239]
10 31 ms 22 ms 22 ms fra4.cc1.as48314.net [45.91.100.38]
11 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms 94.199.215.74

Ignore the difference in ping since we live in different areas. 87.237.20.130 / 87.237.21.58 seem to be allocated to EE (ASN 12576), so they actually run different core networks?

Not really. Neither of them have their own network. They both use BT Wholesale for backhaul.

Any differences you see will simply be you both routing from different areas. Some of the hops are also transparent.

Different IP's will also route differently. My connection route to a server I rent in Netherlands frequently changes with an IP change (I'm on EE).

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 11-Dec-23 19:24:05)

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Not really. Neither of them have their own network. They both use BT Wholesale for backhaul.

This is only somewhat accurate. They both use BT Wholesale for backhaul between the Openreach handover point and their preferred Point of Presence, however they do operate separate core networks: BT is AS2856 and EE is AS12576.

In reply to a post by behuk:

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

Not really. Neither of them have their own network. They both use BT Wholesale for backhaul.

This is only somewhat accurate. They both use BT Wholesale for backhaul between the Openreach handover point and their preferred Point of Presence, however they do operate separate core networks: BT is AS2856 and EE is AS12576.

I refer you to my current IP allocation (again, I'm with EE).

https://ibb.co/Ssgcjyq

ASN Information for 86.174.53.*
ASN: 2856
Organization: British Telecommunications PLC

They share many IP blocks across the BT Group, as do Plusnet.

Having your own ASN doesn't necessarily mean you have a physical network of your own. You can use your own ASN while moving your traffic over other people's networks.

BT and EE (the Broadband ISP's) have an LNS. That's about the extent of their network. They use Openreach for the local access network, BT Wholesale for the backhaul to their LNS, then it's off their network. BT Group owns enough that they don't need their own network to handle their broadband traffic.

Edited by j0hn83 (Mon 11-Dec-23 20:38:59)

I suspect this is part of the amalgamation -- but they definitely have, and at times use, separate core networks. OP demonstrates this nicely with two traceroutes -- one going via Core Backbone (who only AS12576 are peered with) and one going via RETN (who only AS2856 are peered with).

In reply to a post by Otuuu:

so they actually run different core networks?

They did as they were independent, and EE had both a broadband network (“Orange Broadband”) and two mobile networks with internet access (Orange) and T-Mobile.

The capacity of all three will be needed given the number of customers across BT Broadband, EE Broadband and EE mobile, so it doesn’t surprise me they have 3 networks all owned by British Telecommunications Plc.

Does it matter?

For me that's not a problem, so just curious.

News said that BT users would "assimilate into the EE" soon, before, my understanding was that BT and EE shared the "exactly same" infrastructure, but it turns out I was wrong. xD

In reply to a post by Otuuu:

News said that BT users would "assimilate into the EE" soon, before, my understanding was that BT and EE shared the "exactly same" infrastructure, but it turns out I was wrong. xD

Ahh marketing vs technical!! I suspect if there is any integration it will take years, as it does with any acquisition or divestiture in corporate IT. These large capacity networks are a whole other ball game.