Fibre in half the street - what can I do now?

After waiting for years to get fibre installed in my road, OpenReach had my property listed as "Work completed by Dec 23."

They have indeed installed fibre, but only for one side of the street - those houses are all served by telephone poles, whereas my side of the street is served from underground.

So while my neighbours are now getting installations for fibre, OpenReach have told me they there are no plans to install for my address and I should look at Fibre on Demand. Having a 30s look at that told me it's prohibitively expensive.

I'm trying to speak to OpenRech but that is proving difficult. I am tempted to try and rally some neighbour support, but I don't know what for.

I live in an urban area, but there are no other providers available expect for FTTC.

Anyone else faced similar issues - what did you do?

I have a similar problem. Parts of our village centre have fibre but others (including our road) do not. We are 'have nots' on a long-established development surrounded by 'haves'. BT/OR say 'no plans at present etc.`
We have ADSL and Virgin but I do not wish to be forced into using Virgin I am used to having virtually no issues in the fifteen years I have been with our existing ISP.

If enough neighbours are interested it may be worth looking into a "Community Fibre Project" (CFP) with openreach. Although it's not a quick solution.
We had dreadful VDSL connection to a group of 5 houses, we all agreed to fund a CFP with openreach for them to make FTTP fibre available to our properties, they had to run about a mile of fibre bothe underground and across some poles. Cost was nowhere near as bad as the FTTP on demand stories I have read about. Cost us about £2000 each two years ago. Depends what other work is going on and how it fits with other plans.
We've been about to get Gigabit connections for 2 years now and FTTP has been great even though we only opted for a 75/20 package. It's much better than the 13/1 we used to be able to get on VDSL.

The problem for me is that because Virgin Media is installed all round the village (we had it for TV only when the children were young) I suspect even OR may not upgrade to fibre totally, unless they have an obligation to do so. Many local residents are OK with Virgin because of the high speeds currently available even though their service and reliability is not brilliant (and that is putting it politely!)

I can't see any other company bothering with Virgin being so well-established.

In reply to a post by Dumbo9834:

After waiting for years to get fibre installed in my road, OpenReach had my property listed as "Work completed by Dec 23."

what does openreach's website say for your address?

In reply to a post by Dumbo9834:

They have indeed installed fibre, but only for one side of the street - those houses are all served by telephone poles, whereas my side of the street is served from underground.

Fibre can be provide to your property via those poles.

In reply to a post by Dumbo9834:

So while my neighbours are now getting installations for fibre, OpenReach have told me they there are no plans to install for my address and I should look at Fibre on Demand. Having a 30s look at that told me it's prohibitively expensive.

They might be correct or there might be a database issue. Others have been in the same position and openreach have said no because of the either ducting issues or direct buried cables.

You do need to explain "opposite side of the road" How many properties are there? We don't know what tree to bark up at till we get more info from you.

what does openreach's website say for your address?

Since the start of the new year, Openreach's website says for my property "Not Yet Available", whereas before it stated that "build work was to be completed by Dec '23" (words to that effect).

You do need to explain "opposite side of the road" How many properties are there? We don't know what tree to bark up at till we get more info from you.

My street is a standard set-up, well established, it is not a new build area. It is an urban area, 15 minutes walk to a city centre.

There are approx 50 properties on the road. The even numbered houses are served by poles, the odd numbered houses (including myself) are served underground. My phoneline comes up from the ground into the house by the side of the front door.

The even numbered houses are now able to order fibre upto 1Gbs, and I have seen two installations for this take place in the last 2 weeks already.

It would seem that the provision has only been made for those houses that are currently served via telegraph poles, despite the fact a pole is directly opposite my front door (on the other side of the road).

If I am to search my address on an ISP website, only FTTC is available up to 36mb.

Edited by Dumbo9834 (Wed 03-Jan-24 18:05:13)

Are these 1970s-ish builds with direct buried cable, or do you have ducts?

Is that the community fibre voucher scheme via Openreach?

I have seen that and the postcode dose not qualify, presumably because we are not in a remote location.

I also couldn't stomach paying that sort of money, when a house on the other side of the road gets it for nothing.

It's so close I could probably connect to my neighbours router...

Are these 1970s-ish builds with direct buried cable, or do you have ducts?

1990s - I am unsure if it is buried or ducts, how would I know?

My phone line entry looks something like this.

Edited by Dumbo9834 (Wed 03-Jan-24 18:21:12)

You'll be ducted then. I would guess FTTP will be along shortly and whoever from Openreach told you that there are no plans was mistaken.

Not what you want to hear but what you describe is kinda how it's meant to work. Unfortunately nobody is giving you reasons why but I suspect there's little you can do.
Openreach want to cover the maximum number of properties they can as quickly as they can as cheap as they can.

An example scenario. They probably planned to rollout to your whole street. The job was surveyed and budgeted. As with most addresses they were keeping the current deployment method where possible (overhead or underground).
Overhead deployment went fine and is enabled.
The underground deployment hit an issue, perhaps a duct collapse or blockage. It's location might mean an expensive fix and now your side of the street is over budget. It is dropped from plans for now
Openreach move on to the next area.
(Or they might be waiting for surveys/permits to overcome and issues with the underground sections and will indeed be back).

Everywhere they start rolling out has to have an end somewhere. Expensive to cover homes and streets are skipped from the rollout and might be covered later if budgets allow it.
There are thousands of streets right next to FTTP with none themselves, or with half streets done.

Doing it like they have is the only reason they are passing/enabling 75,000+ homes every week with new FTTP.

Edited by j0hn83 (Thu 04-Jan-24 02:06:00)

I can understand the logistics behind your explanation, it makes a lot of sense. However, what happens if thousands of homes/premises are not fibre enabled when copper is switched off over the next two years? Presumably only some, like myself, will have the option of signing up with Virgin Media for example.

Openreach copper pairs are not being discontinued , it’s the PSTN ( publicly switched telephone network) that is , service over copper pairs for some will be around for quite some time , but by December 2025 anyone wanting a telephone service will not be using the PSTN but an all IP network.

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 04-Jan-24 08:14:15)

In reply to a post by Davewill:

what happens if thousands of homes/premises are not fibre enabled when copper is switched off over the next two years?

This is a very very very common misconception, as has been said its NOT the copper thats is being switched off, its some of the equipment in the BT telephone exchange (the PSTN if you're even still connected to it), your provider will switch the voice component to a Voice Over IP (VOIP) telephone service still using those same copper cables.

Talk to your neighbour and have an extra fibre intsall in their attic. Then a point to point bigabit link to your house - hardware cost £150

Thanks.

Makes sense, and it sort of what I thought.

Street behind me is all underground and they have fibre.

I guess we're just unlucky. Feels like a lottery.

Thanks - will investigate this

It is a bit of a lottery but a very large percentage of the country are winning it - whilst we hear about issues like yours on here they are the minority - not helpful for you but from a statistical perspective I would enter a lottery that has this high a chance of winning.

It will not be easy but can be achieved, just needs the patience to do it. However, I would suggest trying to get further details about if/when you may get service.

In reply to a post by Dumbo9834:

Street behind me is all underground and they have fibre.

Then its most likely a collapse duct and that they haven't put the underground properties into any "to do list" - yet!

Yes I understand the cost dilema, we were initially entitled to vouchers under the scheme - but, by the time we all agreed to share the cost, the scheme had changed - the boundary had moved - we no longer qualified.
Depends how bad your current connection is, how long before it becomes available anyway (which there is no way of telling) and how the cost impacts you financially - I look back and think we were lucky - the costs wasn't that bad, we all had poor internet, we all agreed we needed a better connection and we didn't think it likely OR would put in the infrastructure otherwise.
I wish we had done it much sooner.
Virgin Media had already done nearby houses/estate but decided it was not worth doing the extra 100m to get to us.

I guess you pays your money and takes your choice -- or not!

Despite having thirty years experience setting up and running computer systems and regarding myself as reasonably technically savvy I have to confess that I am totally confused by the ‘great copper switch-off’.

From my well-respected ISP: “Unless Fibre becomes available on the Openreach Network, I'm afraid you would have to change providers as ADSL will no longer be available which is what you are on currently”.

From Openreach: “If you're out of contract and already on a copper product, you may be able to continue your existing copper-based services in special circumstances - speak to your communications provider if you're not sure”.

From PCJM40: In reply to a post by Davewill:
what happens if thousands of homes/premises are not fibre enabled when copper is switched off over the next two years?
This is a very very very common misconception, as has been said its NOT the copper thats is being switched off, its some of the equipment in the BT telephone exchange (the PSTN if you're even still connected to it), your provider will switch the voice component to a Voice Over IP (VOIP) telephone service still using those same copper cables.

ADSL customers will need to be migrated to SOTAP (if available from your provider) or SOGEA (if available from Openreach) and FTTC customers will need to be migrated to SOGEA. Both SOTAP and SOGEA use copper cable from the street cabinet. You may need to change provider if your current one wants to get out of copper products.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Despite having thirty years experience setting up and running computer systems and regarding myself as reasonably technically savvy I have to confess that I am totally confused by the ‘great copper switch-off’.

It's actually very straightforward, but there are two separate projects which people confuse: PSTN switchoff which happens nationally in December 2025, and copper switchoff which happens area by area with no final deadline.

PSTN switchoff = no analogue dialtone on your line: the voice exchanges are being turned off. Since 5 September 2023 you have no longer been able to order an analogue voice line, or order a combination of (analogue voice + separate broadband on top). Instead, all new services are data only: on copper this means FTTC (SOGEA), or ADSL (SOTAP) only where FTTC is not available. If your service provider also offers voice then it's digital voice over the broadband; this means you have to plug your phone into the router, not into the master socket. But for many people, the broadband itself will still be delivered over copper, so the router plugs into the master socket.

Copper switchoff happens only in exchange areas which have a "copper stop sell" in place. This happens when an exchange area reaches 75% FTTP availability, but only applies to those properties where FTTP is actually available to order. If that's you, then you'll no longer be able to order or modify FTTC or ADSL services; you'll have to migrate to FTTP. (Which is no bad thing for you, of course). See https://www.openreach.com/fibre-broadband/retiring-t...

Openreach publish updated lists of the copper stop sell areas every few months.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

From my well-respected ISP: “Unless Fibre becomes available on the Openreach Network, I'm afraid you would have to change providers as ADSL will no longer be available which is what you are on currently”.

This varies by provider. Some have their own ADSL equipment in exchanges, and some use BT Wholesale ADSL, and some choose not to offer ADSL at all, since it's a very tiny proportion of customers now.

I expect that your "well-respected" ISP would offer you FTTC (SOGEA), which is available to over 95% of the country, but maybe it's not available to you: this could be if you're on an Exchange Only line, or your cabinet isn't FTTC enabled, it has reached capacity, or you're too far from the cabinet for FTTC to work well.

If you give some more specifics about what provider you're on and why you want to retain ADSL, we may be able to advise on options.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

From Openreach: “If you're out of contract and already on a copper product, you may be able to continue your existing copper-based services in special circumstances - speak to your communications provider if you're not sure”.

Two possibiliities I can think of here:

1. You're in a copper stop-sell area, FTTP is available to your property, but you are an FTTP refusenik. In that case you'll need very special circumstances to avoid moving to FTTP. FTTP Is Good For You™.

2. You're using an analogue voice line and you're a vulnerable person who doesn't want to move to digital voice (e.g. because you have incompatible health alarm system). There is a new transition product designed to keep your voice line running. However this probably doesn't apply to you because you already have broadband (ADSL).

Again, if you give more specifics of what you want and why, we may be able to advise.

@candlerb brilliantly written and it should be sticky'd. ❤

Also

FTTP Is Good For You™

is sooooo true.

also known as

FigFu™

😁🙈😁

I am eager to go to fibre, although ADSL is fine for our current needs the extra speed would be useful. The problem (see my original posts) is that despite being on a ‘modern’ development OR have only enabled part of the area and have ‘no plans at present’ to complete the task.

We do have Virgin Media which many of our local residents use but I am reluctant to move from a trouble-free, 30 day contract to Virgin’s somewhat less reliable and relatively expensive service.

We are currently with IDNet (fifteen years and Pipex for ten years before that) and, going forward, require both landline/voice and broadband.
We have no interest in Virgin TV, more than happy with Freeview.

If OR were to complete installing fibre around the village there would be no problem at all!

My street is ducted and we are now surrounded by FTTP, however the street was descoped, and according to a check of the BDUK website, there are no plans to install FTTP services in the next three years. Any install will come out of the BDUK Phase 12 contract which was due to have been awarded in 2023 but hasn’t.

The descoping has been caused by the need to dig 150m of connection between the existing fibre runs and our street. Neither Openreach nor Spring decided to bother so it got dropped until BDUK pay via a new contract. The ducts are fine and were surveyed as clear.

Just because ducts are there doesn’t mean they’ll be used. It’s what else that is needed to get the fibre to those ducts, in my case some groundwork’s, that can stop a project.

In reply to a post by MercuryRH2:

My street is ducted and we are now surrounded by FTTP, however the street was descoped, and according to a check of the BDUK website, there are no plans to install FTTP services in the next three years. Any install will come out of the BDUK Phase 12 contract which was due to have been awarded in 2023 but hasn’t.

Virtually all bduk dev is now done. your council may be one of last still doing it.

you may need to check to see if your postcode is gigabit white

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/project-...

In reply to a post by MercuryRH2:

The descoping has been caused by the need to dig 150m of connection between the existing fibre runs and our street. Neither Openreach nor Spring decided to bother so it got dropped until BDUK pay via a new contract. The ducts are fine and were surveyed as clear.

I suspect it may be more than that. Gpon itself doesn't really just "add on" to an existing fibre strand. Your street may need a new full set of spliter and fibre run back to the aggregation node. What you may have been told is half the story, we can only guess.

In reply to a post by MercuryRH2:

Just because ducts are there doesn’t mean they’ll be used. It’s what else that is needed to get the fibre to those ducts, in my case some groundwork’s, that can stop a project.

Exactly and frustrating at best. In this case, check to see if your street has been classed as gigabit white and report back.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

I am eager to go to fibre, although ADSL is fine for our current needs the extra speed would be useful. The problem (see my original posts) is that despite being on a ‘modern’ development OR have only enabled part of the area and have ‘no plans at present’ to complete the task.

We do have Virgin Media which many of our local residents use but I am reluctant to move from a trouble-free, 30 day contract to Virgin’s somewhat less reliable and relatively expensive service.

We are currently with IDNet (fifteen years and Pipex for ten years before that) and, going forward, require both landline/voice and broadband.
We have no interest in Virgin TV, more than happy with Freeview.

If OR were to complete installing fibre around the village there would be no problem at all!

Have you asked IDNet if they can provide you with a VDSL service to replace the ADSL?

In reply to a post by Davewill:

I am eager to go to fibre, although ADSL is fine for our current needs the extra speed would be useful. The problem (see my original posts) is that despite being on a ‘modern’ development OR have only enabled part of the area and have ‘no plans at present’ to complete the task.

Can you put your address into the BT Wholesale checker: https://www.broadbandchecker.btwholesale.com/ (click "address checker")
and then post back here what you see, with your address masked off obviously? (You can upload a screenshot to a hosting site like imgur then link to it)

The sections of particular interest are:
* VDSL
* G.Fast
* WBC FTTP (ignore "FTTP on demand")
* WBC SOADSL

Also the text at the bottom is useful, it might start something like this:

"FTTP is not available.

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme" (etc)

When you say "I am eager to go to fibre" that supplies another layer of confusion, because it's not clear whether you mean fibre to the cabinet (FTTC = VDSL or G.Fast, sadly also called "fibre broadband" by many ISPs), or fibre to the premise (FTTP, a.k.a. "full fibre")

I have checked with OR a number of times over the past couple of years and the answer is always; only ADSL is available (ADSL 2+ to be pedantic).

BT Wholesale does, unsurprisingly give the same result; “FTTP is not available, The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme.” There are no references to VDSL, G.fast etc.

I use the term fibre loosely because whether to cabinet or premises does not really matter to me. As I said in my other posts my concern is that if OR do not install fibre in our close (although it is available all around us) I will have no option but to sign up with Virgin within the next two years.

My wife and myself are both technically highly experienced but we still prefer to keep a ‘landline’ which we have used for the past seventy years rather than access the internet over our mobile phones. The latter method is not so practical given that we use our desktop computers for both social and business purposes.

So, in your scenario, just sit tight. The only thing that is going to change is that B Wholesale exchange based voices services are being discontinued. When this is due for your particular exchange, you will be offered an internet based voice service … the usual scenario is that your router will be replaced with one that has a PSTN jack on the back of it …. and your ‘land line phone’ will plug into this instead.

Could it be that your current supplier are not embracing this product ?

How about moving to an LLU supplier, their exchange based voice services are not earmarked to be ceased. Port your number over to them, and use their landline services, and their ADSL offering ?

This is where a lot of the confusion lies; will ADSL be discontinued or not? As you say, probably best to 'sit tight' and see what IDNet are offering when the time comes and make a decision then.

I am reluctant to move away from IDNet as they offer a reasonable price, thirty day contract, reliable service and good customer support - what more could one ask?

I am reluctant to move away from IDNet as they offer a reasonable price, thirty day contract, reliable service and good customer support - what more could one ask?

You could ask for clear, concise information about what they will do to retain your custom going forward.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I am reluctant to move away from IDNet as they offer a reasonable price, thirty day contract, reliable service and good customer support - what more could one ask?

You could ask for clear, concise information about what they will do to retain your custom going forward.

That is what I will do, but I will wait until I am advised by them what their plans are. I can't help feeling that, rather like the move to electric cars, there is insufficient joined up thinking.

I would politely suggest, that you don’t wait until your are advised of what their plans are …. taking this option might result in you being cornered. Sort it out ahead of the game.

He appears to be on an EO line, so it’s SOTAP, or sod all.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

That is what I will do, but I will wait until I am advised by them what their plans are. I can't help feeling that, rather like the move to electric cars, there is insufficient joined up thinking.

I wouldn't wait, Plusnet have not been informing their current customers that they no longer offer voice services (since Sept 2023) and come 2025 if you stay with them you will keep internet/data but no voice. You can work this out from their website, but they haven't actually told my family members. (Whom are not concerned, and may move provider before then).

Thanks for the suggestion to make contact ASAP. I have contacted IDNet asking for clarification of their intentions.

As to my concerns regarding Virgin being ultimately my only other option are they as bad as reports suggest? My impression from reviews is that it is customer service rather than reliability which is the main issue.

A simple question.

Can you order virgin fibre today ?

In reply to a post by Davewill:

BT Wholesale does, unsurprisingly give the same result; “FTTP is not available, The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme.” There are no references to VDSL, G.fast etc.

Then either you're on an EO line, or your cabinet has not been ADSL enabled (you can tell by whether your cabinet number is shown). codelook.co.uk is another place you can get a list of all the cabinets on an exchange, but it's not easy to navigate.

OR are not fibre-enabling any more cabinets. This means that for now, all your have available is ADSL. For properties like yours, where neither FTTP nor FTTC are available, then Openreach is making available SOTAP (= naked ADSL without PSTN)

IDNet may or may not offer SOTAP today. If they don't (maybe because they haven't made the necessary changes to their ordering systems), you can hold tight until December 2025. By then IDNet might have started to offer SOTAP - or you might even have FTTP available. But at worst, you'll have to change ISP to one which supports SOTAP, or has their own LLU ADSL equipment in the exchange (e.g. Talktalk, Sky)

Others have mentioned voice service. You haven't said whether you use it, or whether you want to keep your phone number. If you do, this might have some effect on the recommended sequence of steps to migrate. (I don't know whether IDNet offer any sort of voice service currently)

Another question: do you pay for your phone line rental from a different provider, and ADSL from IDNet, or get both from IDNet?

if his line is EO and that he can order virgin fibre - he won't get any help via project gigabit. Hence my question to him.

sit and wait for or to upgrade, or idnet to sotap or go virgin fibre ..


One question that hasn't been asked for Davewill is. What does openreach's checker say ?

Typo.

or your cabinet has not been ADSL* enabled

*FTTC

Just to clarify;

In my earlier posts I said OR have only enabled part of the area and have ‘no plans at present’ to complete the task. (checked numerous times over past two years) Fibre is not available to me.

My phone and broadband are with IDNet. And yes, we do need to keep the same telephone number which we have had for more than forty years.

Going forward we need phone and internet.

Moving to Virgin will be a last resort. IDNet, and Zen & Andrew & Arnold, are among a handful of ISPs who consistantly offer reliability and good customer service.

Edited by Davewill (Sat 06-Jan-24 14:27:46)

In reply to a post by Davewill:

As to my concerns regarding Virgin being ultimately my only other option are they as bad as reports suggest?

No, I'm on Virgin in north east Hampshire, as my only alternative to FTTC which due to aging copper wires had degraded to a slower uplink than I needed for home working. Virgin aren't cheap though. Depending on your area you may be connected with coax cabling (most common) or fibre optcs. Check their website for pricing and offers in your area.

I feel for you - I have just spent over a year on pursuing a complaint to Openreach, which has now finally been resolved with a new pole and the fibre finally made available, something the rest of the street had over a year ago.

So first thing to say is I know how frustrating this can be. However it is the case that build plans can and do change all the time, and there will always be people at the edge of a rollout that will be left out.

In my case things were a bit different as they actually tried to install the fibre to the old pole, digging a new fibre duct into the pavement, only to realise when they had finished that they couldn't access the pole. So they built a new pit and hid the fibre in it! Having spoken to the contractors I had enough information to go back to OR with an escalation because something had clearly gone wrong in the planning, and subsequent engineers who saw the DP in the pit agreed that it shouldn't have been left like that. And there were other issues like the pole being unclimbable due to lean, cables being too low over the road and there not being a wayleave (it was just in someones garden fence) which meant that OR really had no choice but to do something about it.

So if you have any evidence that the contractors have made a mistake and they should have completed the work then you can use that as the basis of a complaint, initially through the fibre enquiry team.

However if, as it sounds, the project team have just made a commercial decision that they no longer wish to serve your address because of the costs, there seems little that you can do to challenge it. OR will employ contractors to complete a particular area who are either focussed on installing up poles, or installing in pavement ducts. The latter is much more expensive due to the multitude of problems clearing old ducts out and pulling new cable through. So they may have been able to justify the cost for the contractors for the 'easy' pole installs on one side of the street, but not the expensive contractors for the ducts on your side.

Fibre on Demand may be your only option for now; if you can get several of your neighbours interested then maybe you could afford to pay for a new pole to serve several of the affected houses, fed over a fibre from the poles that do have fibre already? Although unsightly this may be the cheapest and quickest option.

Otherwise you are at ORs mercy - I am sure that they will eventually get back to fit you with fibre when they want to withdraw the copper cable, but if you have good FTTC that could be many years into the future. You might find that an Altnet gets to serve you sooner than OR.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Thanks for the suggestion to make contact ASAP. I have contacted IDNet asking for clarification of their intentions.

As to my concerns regarding Virgin being ultimately my only other option are they as bad as reports suggest? My impression from reviews is that it is customer service rather than reliability which is the main issue.

If you are not in one of their new fibre rollout areas I suggest you have a walk down the road and have a look at the state of some of their co-ax cable cabinets and you should be able to make your own mind up quickly enough. In my area there are several half knocked over, or with open doors meaning that the amps etc. inside are wide open to the elements.

For this reason alone I decided never to go with them, and have held out waiting for the OR fibre.

In reply to a post by Ceejay_Essex:

For this reason alone I decided never to go with them, and have held out waiting for the OR fibre.

It looks bad, but in my own experience the network works reliably even with these cabinet doors open, as these cabinets are majority passive connectors. It does vary by the quality of the original build by one of the 28+ separate companies the Thatcher Govt thought would compete with BT in the late 80s. (Mobile killed that!).

Sticking with ADSL because you don't like Virgin Media is the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. I don't think they are great either, but I don't dislike them more than I dislike having a download speed over 50Mbps.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Sticking with ADSL because you don't like Virgin Media is the definition of cutting your nose off to spite your face. I don't think they are great either, but I don't dislike them more than I dislike having a download speed over 50Mbps.

It is not a case of 'sticking with ADSL', if my current ISP could offer fibre I would have signed up ages ago. The problem with Virgin is that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired, they are expensive and require long contracts.

It is being faced with the probability of a choice of only one supplier which really annoys me, especially after fifteen years of great service from IDNet!

In reply to a post by Davewill:

It is not a case of 'sticking with ADSL', if my current ISP could offer fibre I would have signed up ages ago.

You might be waiting beyond 2026 for OR to infill your street. Also as you have VM, your street will be excluded from project gigabit.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

The problem with Virgin is that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired, they are expensive and require long contracts.

18 months contract is reasonable. they currently have M250 Fibre Broadband only at £27 pm - that is better than OR related offerings.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

It is being faced with the probability of a choice of only one supplier which really annoys me,

that is the only thing against VM atm

note: I'm not trying to sell vm here but pointing out contract length and price

In reply to a post by Davewill:

It is not a case of 'sticking with ADSL', if my current ISP could offer fibre I would have signed up ages ago. The problem with Virgin is that their customer service leaves a lot to be desired, they are expensive and require long contracts.

Similar problem here, but I wasn't on an EO line, but original "fibre" (FTTC) only provided very slow upload, so I have to move to either Virgin Cable or 4G.

It is being faced with the probability of a choice of only one supplier which really annoys me, especially after fifteen years of great service from IDNet!

This is where we want wholesale networks, such as Openreach, Cityfibre and in theory nexfibre, unlike the current virgin media DOCSIS network or the Alt Nets such as Zzoomm, Toob and others. I wouldn't worry for another 3 or 4 years, there is a lot going on and a lot to do. If you urgently need speed now, then you have no option.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

This is where we want wholesale networks, such as Openreach, Cityfibre and in theory nexfibre, unlike the current virgin media DOCSIS network or the Alt Nets such as Zzoomm, Toob and others. I wouldn't worry for another 3 or 4 years, there is a lot going on and a lot to do. If you urgently need speed now, then you have no option.

Hopefully more whole sale networks will appear because its the quickest way to get revenue back from the infrastructure costs.

£27.00 per month, but only for first 18 months. Add phone and call costs (we still use 'landline' for a lot of calls as well as mobiles) and you soon get up to £80.00.

take your phone line to voip.

Which is excellent advice anyway - it will decouple your voice service from your ISP and give you more options for broadband in the future (increasingly, ISPs and altnets are offering broadband without voice).

Sequence is:

1. Order Virgin with no phone number or a new phone number. *Don't* ask them to migrate your existing number, and *don't* give notice of cancellation to IDNet.
2. Set up a SIP account and test it (you'll usually get a dummy number for this too).
3. Once Virgin is live and you've tested SIP over it, tell your SIP provider to port the number
4. When the number port completes, this will cancel the ADSL service linked to the original phone number

Useful advice but, we must keep our existing phone number which we have had for more than forty years and where do I go to set up a SIP account? Also, why not just set up VOIP with IDNet?

In reply to a post by Taras:

Also as you have VM, your street will be excluded from project gigabit.

I don't know how Project Gigabit is relevant in this instance but my street has VM and CityFibre, the latter using some BT ducting, and I have just been notified that it has been added to BT Openreach's build plan.

Your street will be classed as gigabit black - ie with multiple gigabit suppliers .

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Useful advice but, we must keep our existing phone number which we have had for more than forty years and where do I go to set up a SIP account? Also, why not just set up VOIP with IDNet?

I think you are over-thinking things and finding it hard to understand the advice which so many people are giving.

We still haven't heard whether IDNet can offer you a VDSL service through the existing copper network which is probably going to be in situ for many years to come. If they can and can offer equivalent services then all your problems potentially go away if you make that transfer.

Whichever way you go forward, going to a SIP service for your landline will enable you to transfer your cherished landline number to that service so you will not lose the number. There are a number of SIP providers, some of which are internet providers supplying an add-on SIP service which may or may not require use of the providers infrastructure and some are purely VoIP phone providers. There is a whole board on this Forum (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip.html) discussing the subject.

The thinking behind moving your number to an independent VoIP provider is to unlink your number from an internet service. Then if you ever wish to change your "phone" provider you can do it without the possible complication of losing your internet connection if phone and internet are linked.

From the outside looking in it would be good if you could stop over-thinking and stressing, take a step back and give your brain time to assimilate the information that has been given; it really isn't as complicated as you seem to be making it.

We still haven't heard whether IDNet can offer you a VDSL service through the existing copper network

99% sure the OP is on an EO line.

Agree with all you say though

He has said adsl - so that fits into your percentage projection well. OR will have to deal with the EO lines at some stage, but i suspect post '26!

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

The thinking behind moving your number to an independent VoIP provider is to unlink your number from an internet service. Then if you ever wish to change your "phone" provider you can do it without the possible complication of losing your internet connection if phone and internet are linked.

I did this when I moved from Plusnet FTTC to Virgin Media in 2018 for two reasons:
1) Its a lot cheaper
2) I can now get my "home phone" calls on my mobile wherever I go
3) I get free voicemail that turns the messages into WAV files in my email

I used AAISP's voip with Acrobits app on my iPhone.

I could have paid Virgin to do the voice service, but they were charging silly money for this, and the phone has to be connected to the virgin hub, which would put the phone in an annoying place in my flat.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Moving to Virgin will be a last resort. IDNet, and Zen & Andrew & Arnold, are among a handful of ISPs who consistantly offer reliability and good customer service.

As to my concerns regarding Virgin being ultimately my only other option are they as bad as reports suggest?

No they are not.
Virgin had massive congestion problems for many years. They would continue to sell their highest speed packages in already oversubscribed areas.
Things are much much better performance wise particularly in new areas with fibre.
There can be some localised issues on older coax areas.
It's the customer service that still isn't the best.

The UK broadband market is very different to 5-15 years ago.
OFCOM require providers advertise packages at the average peak time speed.

IDNet & A&A still offer a brilliant service but you couldn't pay me to move back to Zen.
They have grown quite a bit over the last few years and customer service is nowhere near what it was.
They have big problems with many of their 550Mb+ connections over the Openreach network that have been ongoing for probably over a year now that they seem to have very little interest fixing.
Still better than most for customer service but nowhere near the ISP they used to be.

“Anyone else faced similar issues - what did you do?”

Switched to 4G and then 5G. neighbours are doing the same as they lose patience with openreach

We have long standing extremely unreliable copper infrastructure and they will not replace the knackered cables with new. So it’s a regular event for driveways, verges & roads to be constantly excavated to find faults.

We are the back of the queue for fibre, truly the premises passed, totally passed & ignored, first for FTTC and now FTTP.

Despite being in a fibre first location, Fibre, in any form remains a very, very, very distant prospect.

Edited by M100 (Mon 08-Jan-24 13:27:20)

In reply to a post by GonePostal:

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Useful advice but, we must keep our existing phone number which we have had for more than forty years and where do I go to set up a SIP account? Also, why not just set up VOIP with IDNet?

I think you are over-thinking things and finding it hard to understand the advice which so many people are giving.

We still haven't heard whether IDNet can offer you a VDSL service through the existing copper network which is probably going to be in situ for many years to come. If they can and can offer equivalent services then all your problems potentially go away if you make that transfer.

Whichever way you go forward, going to a SIP service for your landline will enable you to transfer your cherished landline number to that service so you will not lose the number. There are a number of SIP providers, some of which are internet providers supplying an add-on SIP service which may or may not require use of the providers infrastructure and some are purely VoIP phone providers. There is a whole board on this Forum (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/voip.html) discussing the subject.

The thinking behind moving your number to an independent VoIP provider is to unlink your number from an internet service. Then if you ever wish to change your "phone" provider you can do it without the possible complication of losing your internet connection if phone and internet are linked.

From the outside looking in it would be good if you could stop over-thinking and stressing, take a step back and give your brain time to assimilate the information that has been given; it really isn't as complicated as you seem to be making it.

I am not ‘overthinking’ the problem. It is very simple as explained in my original posts. If OR do not make fibre available (FTTC or FTTP) and ADSL becomes no longer an option I will have to sign up with Virgin which I would do with some reluctance. I cannot see any other course of action, unless of course I am missing something.

Whilst I am grateful for all the advice members are offering, when it comes to internet connections there are so many acronyms involved it does become difficult to follow up suggestions without knowing what they all mean. In addition there is a lot of mis-information in the public domain; “BT switching off copper” and similar headlines do not help.

Having said all that. these conversations have made me think; do we really need a ‘landline’ at all? The primary reason for keeping the phone is, quite simply, the habit formed of seventy years familiarity. My wife and myself use our mobiles a lot; texting, WhatsApp (particularly friends and family) and phone calls.
All banking, business requirements, browsing, emails and letters etc. are done using two desktops.

To summarise; thank you all for your input; having now spent many hours exploring various options I think the simplest answer may be to ditch the landline and switch to Virgin for internet only at some point in the next year or so.

Edited by Davewill (Mon 08-Jan-24 17:58:20)

In reply to a post by Davewill:

I am not ‘overthinking’ the problem. It is very simple as explained in my original posts. If OR do not make fibre available (FTTC or FTTP) and ADSL becomes no longer an option I will have to sign up with Virgin which I would do with some reluctance. I cannot see any other course of action, unless of course I am missing something.

ADSL is not being withdrawn: this option will always remain for you, for as long as FTTC and FTTP are not available.

However, IDNet today may not be in a position to sell you SOTAP (=ADSL without analogue phone).

Wait until mid-2025. If at that point IDNet still tell you that they cannot supply SOTAP, then change ISP. Also, there's a reasonable chance that Openreach FTTP will be available by then, which IDNet definitely can supply you with.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Having said all that. these conversations have made me think; do we really need a ‘landline’ at all? The primary reason for keeping the phone is, quite simply, the habit formed of seventy years familiarity. My wife and myself use our mobiles a lot; texting, WhatsApp (particularly friends and family) and phone calls.
All banking, business requirements, browsing, emails and letters etc. are done using two desktops.

The physical copper line will always exist, obviously, to deliver your ADSL.

Whether you want to keep your existing "landline" phone number is entirely up to you. If everyone calls you on your mobile already, then you probably don't need it.

If you want to hedge your bets, you can move your phone number to a SIP provider like A&A - you'll pay £1.44 per month (plus the porting charge) - or a forwarding service like numberpeople.co.uk, where you'll pay a few pence per minute to have calls to your landline number forwarded to your mobile. Then after a few years, if you find you no longer need it, you can quietly drop it.

However, moving your phone number *will* cause your loss of ADSL service, so don't do it until you're ready for that.

(Aside: it used to be possible to avoid this by migrating your line and ADSL to A&A, and then use their "renumber and port out" service to move the number to SIP without ceasing the line. But since Sep 2023, where you can no longer order or modify a landline, it may no longer be possible. You can check with them, if this is of interest to you)

Dave, we aren't pressuring you to go to virgin. I accept that some of my replies have blunt, but they were done to explain that IDNet may not be able to fulfil what you need. And yes it is a need. But also that things may or may not happen and that you have virgin media already there. Also theres nothing stopping you from doing 18months with VM and leaving. And as @candlerb said, Openreach may have sorted the infill by then. Then you can go back to IDNet as a new customer with hopefully lower prices.

I hate bringing in my own experience into this but my hamlet has had its fttp date moved about 10 times since 2018 (probably wasn't but it sure damm feels like it) and now we have been given a date of this quarter (hoping i've not burnt some wood by saying that).

I do hope that you get your faster net sorted quickly.

Edited by Taras (Mon 08-Jan-24 21:57:02)

Thanks for all the suggestions/comments. I intend to hang on until IDNet make their intentions clear, that is why I said I would 'wait a year or so' before changing supplier. To be honest Virgin without a phone but with an increase in speed of at least around three times ADSL would be a reasonable outcome.

Edited by Davewill (Mon 08-Jan-24 21:10:43)

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Thanks for all the suggestions/comments. I intend to hang on until IDNet make their intentions clear, that is why I said I would 'wait a year or so' before changing supplier. To be honest Virgin without a phone but with an increase in speed of at least around three times ADSL would be a reasonable outcome.

I see Virgin have their Winter Sale on; basic speed now 18 times current ADSL!

i did say......... 😁

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Thanks for all the suggestions/comments. I intend to hang on until IDNet make their intentions clear, that is why I said I would 'wait a year or so' before changing supplier. To be honest Virgin without a phone but with an increase in speed of at least around three times ADSL would be a reasonable outcome.

The important thing to remember is that if you do move your landline to a VoIP provider then the calls are handled through the internet. You are not dependent on the copper line and have already considered the option of moving to Virgin.

There is another route you might investigate. Have you also considered the mobile network option? If you have a good enough mobile signal that can then become the way that you receive your internet connection. There are a number of people who regularly post on this Forum who have an adequate mobile signal and have made that change after checking that the mobile signal would suffice; they report reduced monthly costs and perfectly acceptable service as compared with land-based providers.

As I said earlier I am now seriously thinking of doing away with the 'landline' so a Virgin account for broadband only would be a reasonable way to go.

How does the mobile network work in respect of desktops, tablets etc. all of which we use.

You purchase a router which will accept an ‘eat all you want’ data sim. The router provides WiFi connectivity …. your kit connects to that.

Like this for instance

Edited by Zarjaz (Tue 09-Jan-24 10:49:55)

Ideally something faster than cat 4!

The thing with mobile internet is that, it can wildly vary in speed, and can suffer from congestion[but that can happen on any type of network]. Upsides if you can get 5g and a good connection 1gb can be done for a cheap price.

Its not a fire up and forget solution but a "tinkering one".

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

You purchase a router which will accept an ‘eat all you want’ data sim. The router provides WiFi connectivity …. your kit connects to that.

Like this for instance

Good old TP Link, my favourite router, I have used them since the days of dial-up.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Ideally something faster than cat 4!

This is the problem with mobile routers from shops, they're often still 2012 spec, and haven't upgraded. Cat 4 LTE is circa 2010, and those routers should, in my opinion, be removed from sale. Cat 6 should be the minimum, and most entry level Androids manage Cat 18 today.

Only get mobile broadband with a 5G box from a mobile network, (e.g. Three, EE, Vodafone etc). Otherwise only use it if you cannot get FTTC or better.

I moved my landline to virgin and kept my number.

You provide it to virgin during sign up and they inform your current provider of the transfer date. The BT line goes to an engaged dial tone and then you plug your phone into the virgin hub, and it has your number.

Their customer service is pretty bad. I usually only WhatsApp them which works for me.
+44 7305 327112 is the number they gave me after I asked for a way to communicate with them that wasn’t via their annoying call centre. It’s still not nearly as bad as TalkTalk was when I had them.

Contract wise - I don’t expect a time will come when I don’t need the internet.
They generally do free home moves

Speeds, pings etc are fine.
I’m on cable DOCSIS 3.1 not full fibre.

It went down once for a national outage at the start of 2023.

https://www.speedtest.net/result/i/5935655608
https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest/17048373013...

So far so good. I signed up to their VOLT bundle for £85pm, a year ago, then cancelled the o2 sim at the start lowering the price by £25pm.

Includes unlimited calls inc mobiles
2 rooms TV inc sports and movies
Netflix HD
Gigabit speed

Once the contract ends the pricing will be off the scale I’m sure
I only have FTTC options outside of virgin.

Edited by ukhardy07 (Tue 09-Jan-24 22:03:36)

Brought two lte routers last year. One was a cheapie £40 unit, which was fine but kept on staying on b20 and it didn't have modem mode. I'm currently on nr5103e unit. which is actually faster than my old fttc line but still given its nature the service is variable .

You need Cat 6 or above to carrier aggregation and multiple aerials which then means you are doing mobile broadband!


bring on fttp (still holding onto that wood !!!!!! 😂😁 - will release when the ont is on the wall and the pon light is lit! )

Having realised that we probably don't need a 'landline', assuming IDNet discontinues ADSL at some point in the next two years max, also assuming OR does not install fibre and being very reluctant to sign up with Virgin media I have looked into mobile broadband.

The Vodafone Gigacube 4G seems like the perfect solution - on paper. I have been with Vodafone since 1997 and, despite reports to the contrary, I have received great customer service on the few occasions I have needed it. I have just checked the speed of 4G and with three speed testers it averages 21 Mbps download and 6 up, which is a lot faster than ADSL.

What's not to like; any comments?

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Having realised that we probably don't need a 'landline', assuming IDNet discontinues ADSL at some point in the next two years max, also assuming OR does not install fibre and being very reluctant to sign up with Virgin media I have looked into mobile broadband.

The Vodafone Gigacube 4G seems like the perfect solution - on paper. I have been with Vodafone since 1997 and, despite reports to the contrary, I have received great customer service on the few occasions I have needed it. I have just checked the speed of 4G and with three speed testers it averages 21 Mbps download and 6 up, which is a lot faster than ADSL.

Better than ADSL for peak speeds sure, but may not be as consistent in busy periods. I'd run them in parallel for a while before you finally switch off ADSL. There are people over on ispreview.co.uk forums who can give good advice on mobile broadband routers.

Given that Openreach are now building FTTP at a rate of 4 million properties per year, there's a fair chance you'll get FTTP in the next year or two.

do not sign up for mobile broadband service till you have tried 02, voda, 3 and ee at your property.

you can order free payas you go sims from each and they will have a couple of 100mb on them to test with speed checkers.

also use https://bidb.uk/ to narrow down service providers

and also https://www.cellmapper.net to work out where to point things.

Note your phone will give only a indicative idea as to speeds - you may get more or less than you expect with a lte/5g router.

Also you may wish to get a "new" zyxel nr5103e from ebay which mean you can avoid a contract if you find it doesn't work out.

I certainly will not jump without trying first. As you say by the end of next year OR may have put in fibre.

It's just that I always look well ahead even with printers and computers and such; I do not like to get caught out by something going wrong without having done my homework.

Edit: Just seen last post - beaten by two minutes!!

Edited by Davewill (Thu 11-Jan-24 17:49:30)

At the moment Vodafone offer a monthly contract which could be useful.
Let's see how it goes over the next year or so. I will look out for the fleet of Openreach vans!!

Edited by Davewill (Thu 11-Jan-24 18:56:50)

I tried out 5G home broadband and even that whilst awesome most of the time, would have periods where it was just horrendous.

It could be 350Mbps or it could be 0.7 with a ping of 1024ms+.

The variability was frankly frustrating. To save power mobile masts sunset certain bands / channels out of hours which meant during late night it would only worsen and often not auto restore to the best band / channel in the AM.

It also was not very sticky to a mast / cell ID. It would bounce around a lot. At times no matter what I did (even forcing a manual band) did not work, I’d get no service unless I accepted the band being forced on me. Sometimes this was a band 20 mast 4.5 miles away on top of a stadium that is needless to say, very slow. That very well could be the hardware and the lack of decent antenna / firmware.

This was network 3 nonetheless, and a small attempt with O2 unlimited sim, which was more “constant” but closer to “constantly underwhelming” with speeds averaging 10 to 30Mbps on 5G.

In reply to a post by ukhardy07:

I tried out 5G home broadband and even that whilst awesome most of the time, would have periods where it was just horrendous.

It could be 350Mbps or it could be 0.7 with a ping of 1024ms+.

The variability was frankly frustrating. To save power mobile masts sunset certain bands / channels out of hours which meant during late night it would only worsen and often not auto restore to the best band / channel in the AM.

It also was not very sticky to a mast / cell ID. It would bounce around a lot. At times no matter what I did (even forcing a manual band) did not work, I’d get no service unless I accepted the band being forced on me. Sometimes this was a band 20 mast 4.5 miles away on top of a stadium that is needless to say, very slow. That very well could be the hardware and the lack of decent antenna / firmware.

This was network 3 nonetheless, and a small attempt with O2 unlimited sim, which was more “constant” but closer to “constantly underwhelming” with speeds averaging 10 to 30Mbps on 5G.

was that the nr5103e ? The situation you have partially described is over subscription. You also may have needed a directional aeriel. And yes the bands switch off to b20 sucks donkey balls

I would expect 4G to be more consistent as it has broader coverage. Looking at various forums 5G users appear to have more problems than the 4G ones, although at the expense of outright speed.

5g atm uses 4g to initiate the 5g connection hence (5g nsa - not stand-alone). So to get 5g you need a stable 4g connection (at the moment - vodafone in select areas is trailing stand-alone 5g)

Further to discussions on my options for broadband in the absence of BT fibre I decided to experiment using 4G instead of broadband. (5G will not be available for some time)

I acquired a TP-Link M7000 mobile router (which I can later use on holidays etc if necessary) and a cheap data only SIM card.

Download speeds were similar to my current ADSL at 14-15 Mbps but the upload speed increased from around 0.9 to an average of 5 Mbps. I would expect a router such as the TP-Link MR6400 or Archer MR600 for example would give a much better performance.

Based on this, admittedly limited experiment, it would appear that using 4G could be a viable option if eventually the only other provider is Virgin Media.

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Further to discussions on my options for broadband in the absence of BT fibre I decided to experiment using 4G instead of broadband. (5G will not be available for some time)

I acquired a TP-Link M7000 mobile router (which I can later use on holidays etc if necessary) and a cheap data only SIM card.

Download speeds were similar to my current ADSL at 14-15 Mbps but the upload speed increased from around 0.9 to an average of 5 Mbps. I would expect a router such as the TP-Link MR6400 or Archer MR600 for example would give a much better performance.

Based on this, admittedly limited experiment, it would appear that using 4G could be a viable option if eventually the only other provider is Virgin Media.

If you do decide that the mobile signal is your best option it is worthwhile experimenting with the positioning of the router (not only where to put it inside the house but also orientation) and you may get further improvements with an external aerial. There is a lot of information about that sort of enhancement in various topics on this Forum as well as elsewhere on the internet.

what network did you use ?

the tp m7000 cat4
the mr6400 is also cat4

If you find a good network signal - your phone will be faster than the tp unit!

Edited by Taras (Sat 20-Jan-24 16:23:56)

In reply to a post by Davewill:

Further to discussions on my options for broadband in the absence of BT fibre I decided to experiment using 4G instead of broadband. (5G will not be available for some time)

At this point you need to work out what transmisisons are in your area from which of the 4 physical mobile network operators. As they don't publish this information, the best way is to put your postcode into Cellmapper and locate the closest masts to your home, and what bands (frequencies) they are transmitting on. e.g. EE will usually have 4G on Band 3 (1800 Mhz) as will Three, but O2 and Vodafone will have 4G on Band 20 (800 Mhz). It is better if there are multiple transmissions, known as carriers. In my housing estate EE has 4 carriers transmitting, which works in a similar way to multiple lanes on a motorway. Three has one carrier, Vodafone has 2, and O2 has one.

If you have hardware that can bond/connect these carriers together then the speeds on EE are therefore dramatically faster than the others. Almost all 4G smartphones from the Android vendors and Apple can do this. Very few mobile routers can do this.

This is known as the LTE Category. Modern Android and Apple phones are around Category 18, and so way ahead. MANY mobile routers are Category 4 (cat 4) and can only use ONE carrier at a time. Causing slow speeds and slow performance. Some more advanced mobile routers are Cat 6 or higher.

I acquired a TP-Link M7000 mobile router (which I can later use on holidays etc if necessary) and a cheap data only SIM card.

In the UK under Ofcom's regulations there is really no difference between a voice and data SIM. I use SMARTY and VOXI phone SIMs in my data only iPad and Netgear mobile router without issue. £10 for 30gb of data is about the going rate for these two virtual operators.

The M7000 claims a 150 Mbps download and 50 Mbps upload... this implies it is CAT 4 and so you won't get near these speeds, even in test lab conditions. This is similar to a Samsung Galaxy S4, or an iPhone 5 back in 2012. Even with the best signal, outdoors in the road as the transmitting mast.

I would expect a router such as the TP-Link MR6400 or Archer MR600 for example would give a much better performance.

The MR6400 is ALSO Cat 4, so will do nothing to improve mobile performance assuming you were outdoors and close to the transmitting mast.

The Archer MR600 is Cat 6 which would start to make a difference as this can bond two channels together.

Based on this, admittedly limited experiment, it would appear that using 4G could be a viable option if eventually the only other provider is Virgin Media.

You should test the mobile networks using a phone, even a cheap pre-owned Android from CEX or eBay will be capable of much faster speeds that ANY of these routers. Once you know speeds are available you could then invest in suitable hardware.

Virgin Media is probably a much better option that ANY mobile data service in a built up area. Mobile data services can get easily congested for months at a time, it is hard to add capacity, unlike fixed broadband services.

To talk more about 4G LTE services see the Mobile Broadband forum here:
https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/mobilebroadband.html

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Jan-24 16:23:20)

thanks jchamier for a longer version of what i said (and better) ...... 😁 and completely on point.

In reply to a post by Taras:

thanks jchamier for a longer version of what i said (and better) ...... 😁 and completely on point.

Looks like I was writing when you posted... look at those post time stamps 😂

It is really disappointing that Cat4 LTE hardware is still being supplied in 2024... its got to all be "old stock" that just didn't sell. That is over 10 years old technology

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Jan-24 16:27:41)

Thanks for all the advice; as I said this was just an experiment at this stage. I bought the M7000 because it was the cheapest way of trying out the ‘system’ (other than a dongle for £15 - £20 which, judging by Amazon’s reviews, are not the most reliable kit).

I used a Voxi card due to the simplicity of ordering and cancelling. I would of course check out signal strengths etc. and go for cat 6 if I bought another router.

Finally, I am still hopeful that we may get fibre from OR in the next year or so. My objection to Virgin is based on their relatively high price in relation to our current and future needs, reliability is, at best, only reasonable and their customer service leaves a lot to be desired. For many people the speed and the ‘extras’ available make them a good proposition.

before spending money test speeds on Voxi and other networks (can be DRAMATICALLY different) using a recent smartphone (borrow if necessary).

There are high spec routers, but they are seriously expensive, such as this which is LTE Category 20:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-Mobile-Ho...
https://www.netgear.com/uk/home/mobile-wifi/hotspots...

There are very few companies making 4G/5G routers for home use... majority are made for the networks themselves, such as the boxes Three provides with their Mobile Broadband packages.

In my flat, the speeds on 4G from the various networks are:
* O2 = under 5 Mbps
* Three / SMARTY = 34 Mbps
* Vodafone / VOXI = 50 Mbps
* EE/ 1pMobile = 100 to 200 Mbps

Edited by jchamier (Sat 20-Jan-24 19:04:46)

also a lot cheaper is zxyell nr5103e via ebay. New and very capable - with band selection and also modem mode too

In reply to a post by Taras:

also a lot cheaper is zxyell nr5103e via ebay. New and very capable - with band selection and also modem mode too

As long as they're unlocked, as you say very capable!