Separate fibre BB from phone line

Looking to extract landline phone number and move to VoIP, without breaking the broadband connection (for my mother-in-law).

Currently have Plusnet FTTC connection with bundled landline, which is up for renewal early Feb. I want to take the opportunity to get the number out and move to VoIP at this renewal.

What I am worried about is renewing the broadband (with PN or another provider), and then breaking that connection when I port the number out. Of course I have to wait to port the number until the new broadband is live. Will signing up for broadband only, automatically release the phone line/number, or will they remain tied?

Porting a landline number doesn’t’t always seem to be possible. I was going to upgrade to Vodafone FTTP but cancelled when they decided that I couln’t keep my current number.

It may just be that they were being lazy, but retaining the continuity of my landline is more important, to me, than a faster connection.

I had to cease broadband on a line altogether to get my number out from Sky and ported to AAISP VoIP.

Can you get FTTP at the property or is there more than one line ?

FTTP is an available 'upgrade' option, yes.
She is currently on copper line for phone.

In reply to a post by aks:

FTTP is an available 'upgrade' option, yes.
She is currently on copper line for phone.

In that case I suggest that the Cunning Plan would be:
a) Order a new FTTP service (*not* an upgrade) from your preferred broadband provider (edit: and verify that the new service is working correctly!).
b) Port the phone number to your preferred VOIP provider (I'm using A&A, other providers are available).
c) Once the port is complete, the old copper line will cease automatically.

Edited by behuk (Thu 11-Jan-24 21:49:07)

In reply to a post by behuk:

In reply to a post by aks:

FTTP is an available 'upgrade' option, yes.
She is currently on copper line for phone.

In that case I suggest that the Cunning Plan would be:
a) Order a new FTTP service (*not* an upgrade) from your preferred broadband provider.
b) Port the phone number to your preferred VOIP provider (I'm using A&A, other providers are available).
c) Once the port is complete, the old copper line will cease automatically.

And between (a) and (b) satisfy yourself that the FTTP service is working in a satisfactory manner otherwise you could carry out (b) and find yourself without a viable internet connection. Double bubble for a couple of weeks but probably worth it just for the reassurance.

Thanks, I'll check that path now.

For VoIP, I am looking at
1) A&A - seems reasonable, seems like £1.44 minimum charge, i'e' number hosting.
2) and Voipfone - but theire effective minimum charge is £5.40 with zero mins = not that attractive.
3) Vonage, not competitive.

In reply to a post by aks:

Looking to extract landline phone number and move to VoIP, without breaking the broadband connection (for my mother-in-law).

Unless things have changed recently, if the are bundled together (Like Plusnet) it just isn't possible while staying with your current provider.

You need to order a separate standalone broadband package and when enabled you migrate the number to VOIP which triggers a cease on the broadband.

Alternatively you need to migrate both broadband and landline to a provider that supports the renumber and export process, like AAISP.

Might be worth a read of the article ISPreview did just over a year ago https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2022/12/summar... to see what else is on offer, much depends on likely usage.

Have a look at VOIPIFY too: https://www.voipify.net/ yes there is a monthly charge, but support is excellent and call prices good.

Thanks, my understanding from the PN renewal portal is that moving to "a new product" with PN, will not come with a phone line, as they will no longer offer new deals with phone packages. I can renew the existing bundle, but I am delaying the inevitable when copper lines get dropped over the next year or so.

I I do take PN full fibre, I understand the LL will be disconnected, then I have 31 days to port.

But, the information is far from clear, so I could be misunderstanding things.

Wow, they are extremely competitive call charges!
Thank you!

Based in Sheffield and I have been using them for several - 4-5 years, possibly more.

From what I understand, the owner was one of the original architects of VoIP.

In reply to a post by MHC:

From what I understand, the owner was one of the original architects of VoIP.

Matt (uno), he posts regularly here.

Hi,

In reply to a post by aks:

Thanks, my understanding from the PN renewal portal is that moving to "a new product" with PN, will not come with a phone line, as they will no longer offer new deals with phone packages. I can renew the existing bundle, but I am delaying the inevitable when copper lines get dropped over the next year or so.

I I do take PN full fibre, I understand the LL will be disconnected, then I have 31 days to port.

But, the information is far from clear, so I could be misunderstanding things.

Staying with your existing provider for internet provision whilst porting your PSTN number away to a separate VOIP provider is risky.

The problem is that ideally you want to terminate your existing service by the act of porting the number away, that way there is minimal risk that the port fails and you lose the number. To do that with your existing provider you need to get them to provide a new completely separate FTTP service to your address whilst retaining the existing service - lots of providers can't cope with the idea of having two internet services to the same customer at the same address (at least at a customer service level) and will helpfully cancel your existing service for you (with a high chance of you losing your number) which is not what you want in this circumstance.

If you do want to stay with Plusnet for internet and port your number away then I would be using words of one syllable in my dealings with them, recording calls, getting their people to repeat everything back to you to confirm their understanding and still be uncertain whether I will lose my phone number (this isn't Plusnet specific I should note, it is just how the industry appears to be, albeit from the limited sample seen on internet forums).

You can avoid a lot of stress by going to a new internet provider and getting FTTP without telling them anything about your existing Plusnet service which you can then cancel (by transferring your number) at your leisure.

Of course, if you actually want to have both services physically active at the same time (not necessary from a porting perspective) then you may also need to be prepared to stop the man from Openreach (incorrectly) destroying your copper installation when they come to install fibre.

In reply to a post by aks:

2) and Voipfone - but theire effective minimum charge is £5.40 with zero mins = not that attractive.

I'm with Voipfone on a PAYG tarriff, no PBX stuff, costs me £3.60/mo (inc VAT) for my ported-in landline no + calls. Would be no monthly charge if I just used their free 056 number. Have found Voipfone support and service to be good.

In reply to a post by Dassa:

Staying with your existing provider for internet provision whilst porting your PSTN number away to a separate VOIP provider is risky.

That in itself isn't risky. It triggers the broadband to cease, but keeps the number every time.

Porting after the fact should also be fine now (in theory).

New OFCOM general condition rules that came in April 2023

Specific obligations relating to the Porting Process
C7.6 All Regulated Providers shall ensure that:
(a) they provide Number Portability on reasonable terms and conditions to any Switching
Customer who so requests;
(b) they provide Number Portability for a minimum of one month after the date of
termination by the Switching Customer of the contract for the provision of the Relevant
Communications Service(s), unless the Switching Customer expressly agrees otherwise
at the point when they terminate the contract; and
(c) no direct charges are applied to the Switching Customer for the provision of Number
Portability

Although it shouldn't be risky, I've not seen anyone use it at all, either successfully or unsuccessfully.

I wouldn't be the guinea pig if my number was important.

Edited by j0hn83 (Fri 12-Jan-24 13:26:38)

I'm planning on trying that at the end of the year - BT Business with voice included. Gets very few calls, so planning to drop that part at renewal and move it to a VoIP provider and plenty of time to update various records.

Thanks, I am prepared to test the waters - will let you all know.

I ran down the phone bills for the past 15 months, albeit that only covers outgoing calls, and it's a managable number to simply contact if it goes wrong - just 13 exception cases. Everyone she is in regular contact with, i.e. family members and close friends, so that part would be very easy.

I did exactly this when getting FTTP (new FTTP from Zen - questionable choice - 1 month later number to AAISP - great choice, which ceased my FTTC), and it worked well. Definitely worth the upgrade, as once installed and working the FTTP connection is much less likely to require you to troubleshoot issues of connectivity relating to the internet.

It is worth noting that many VOIP providers have very limited options for porting numbers back out of their services, so it pays to research the providers functionality / cost structure meets your requirements prior to doing the deed. You'll be stuck with them for a long time. The VOIP services are much better about accepting new customers and porting in... funny that!

Voipify can only port out to BT:
https://help.voipify.net/knowledge-base/article/port...

I think AAISP are in the same boat, but their website isn't anywhere near as clear (though I recall they tell you during the order process, they could do better here with pre-sales info). There was certainly a time when they had no porting out capabilities at all:
https://www.revk.uk/2012/11/porting-numbers-or-not.html
Best double-check if the ability to port the number back out is important to you.

We just have a forward on the landline number to our mobiles, so our monthly cost with AAISP is basically a couple of quid to retain the old number for the sake of any hospital etc that hasn't got a mobile for us for some reason.

In reply to a post by jimbof:

We just have a forward on the landline number to our mobiles, so our monthly cost with AAISP is basically a couple of quid to retain the old number for the sake of any hospital etc that hasn't got a mobile for us for some reason.

Do you happen to know if AAISP VOIP charge anything for forwarding a number to another number above the cost of the call?
Does the number forward invisible to the caller - ie there is no your call is being forwarded message played?
Is it something you can setup in a control panel so it is under your full control?

Possibly be in a position where I need to sort out a move to an altnet and just in case when I port the old number if I can't get the VOIP to work reliabily if I can just forward the old landline number to a mobile number that will be a good backup?

Thanks

In reply to a post by jimbof:

It is worth noting that many VOIP providers have very limited options for porting numbers back out of their services, so it pays to research the providers functionality / cost structure meets your requirements prior to doing the deed. You'll be stuck with them for a long time. The VOIP services are much better about accepting new customers and porting in... funny that!

I would note that VoIP is still a minefield, and may well 'develop' a great deal in the next couple of years.
I have had two 'problems' with VoIP.
The first was I started a change to Sipgate, this was when they decided to abandon 'Sipgate Basic', luckily I had got a new number, but not ported my old number, as their new charges don't suit my uses. I still use the new number to recieve calls, but who knows what they are going to do with charges or services, they don't seem to be much interested in consumer products.
The second relates to a porting issue. although I had no idea it was that at the time. My phone services and internet have been with TalkTalk Business, I have two lines coming in, copper for the phone, and FTTP for internet, the copper line is not for VoIP, and has a standard cordless plugged in. When I tried to migrate to TalkTalk Consumer there was considerable confusion in TalkTalk, it was found to be 'imposible' to migrate the phone number, I managed to sort out a deal with TalkTalk Business to match the consumer offer, so left it at that. It was only months later that I found out my phone number is somehow listed on TalkTalk Businesses system as a VoIP service and that was why it couldn't be ported, I'm not sure if they have sorted out their systems yet, but serves as a warning that what was once a straight forward system of moving number between providers might not work at the moment for VoIP.
This means if I was to be advising any relatives or friends, I would not suggest moving to a 3rd party VoIP provider unless I was very sure of a companies future plans, as if they go bust or change direction it could mean loss of number.

As far as I'm aware you just get charged their minimum call charge on connection (2.4p inc VAT), and then the per minute fees of 3.33p/minute inc VAT - or whatever applies to the number that gets connected to. If the call lasts exactly 1 minute you should only be charged the minute, if it is more than the minimum call charge. If you forwarded the calls to a landline instead you'd only be charged landline rates. Can also forward to another SIP server.

There is no evidence the call is being forwarded, and the incoming callerID on mobiles appears to be correct (ie you see the caller ID of the original caller, and not some AAISP number). If you wanted to just park the number you could just set their voicemail to receive all calls, play a message and email you the voicemails, and then your cost should be limited to the line rental charge of £1.44.

It's all configured in a control panel. You can set up the forwarding to work alongside the VOIP, so it rings to VOIP and to mobiles (or other landlines) simultaneously, or to delay trying to contact the mobile numbers. You can set it also to record all incoming and outgoing calls if you like, with or without a caller warning. You can also do things like configure which IP addresses are allowed to use SIP on your account to lock down the possibility of fraud.

The AAISP VOIP service works well for my use (and I'm sure it would be sufficient for most users) - I just made the warning about porting out so that people are aware it's not a simple matter if you change your mind with VOIP.

or you can download a sip app for your mobile phone.............

It's much harder to lock down the security of the SIP gateway if you do that.

Security wise, it would be much of muchness for the average user using via a&a to a sip client vs phone forwarding vs sip via ata(standalone or something like the gigaset n510/n300 etc), since weaknesses would appear in any type of device.

Perhaps, but if you're paranoid, and have access to static IPs for your broadband connections that access the SIP gateway, then locking down the IP address is a useful way to end up with an unexpectedly large bill. Wheras to have SIP on mobile, unless you get into a VPN type setup you're going to have to leave the gateway open to any IP address.

More than anything though,, I expect I'm more likely to actually receive the calls with them being forwarded to the mobile number, than if I have to rely both on a data connection of sufficient quality being available via the mobile network, and the SIP client actually being connected.

What a mess this industry has created, I thought Ofcom would help rationalise and standardise, and that 'your right to port your number' was a mandatory requirement?

In reply to a post by aks:

What a mess this industry has created, I thought Ofcom would help rationalise and standardise, and that 'your right to port your number' was a mandatory requirement?

Last week questions where asked in parliament, not about porting but help for vulnerable, apparently BT will now consult further on this.

Completely agree. instead its supplier lockin ...........

upgrade to sogea connection with plusnet which will disconnect the phone then you will have 30 days to move the number to a voip you could also ask plusnet to switch you to sogea and get a voip provider to request the line port to them on the same day

Thanks. How would I 'request' the SoGEA switch?
I talked to the PN customer options team today, they knew very little about the details, other than to pust an even faster connection (Full Fibre 145), even though I stated the MIL uses the internet very little and has no bandwidth issues with the existing FTTC 36Mbps link.
So to ensure they switch, I assume I'd need to call again and perhaps get lucky?

I attempted to sign up with Sky Full Fibre and was prompted with

confirm "I don't want to keep the existing number"

Well, that's a confusing comment! I suppose they mean "do I want to port my existing number in", but I don't want to do that, I just want a new service. I did not see any option that "mentioned keep existing services", or similar. I did not enter the phone number associated with the existing services at all, so possibly would be all ok. Thoughts?

The specific wording is:

Your Landline

Would you like to keep your existing landline phone number?

Yes, prompts an entry of the existing number.
No, allows me to continue, but seems odd.

In reply to a post by aks:

I attempted to sign up with Sky Full Fibre and was prompted with

confirm "I don't want to keep the existing number"

Well, that's a confusing comment! I suppose they mean "do I want to port my existing number in", but I don't want to do that, I just want a new service. I did not see any option that "mentioned keep existing services", or similar. I did not enter the phone number associated with the existing services at all, so possibly would be all ok. Thoughts?

No, from that I wouldn't assume that your existing copper service would remain untouched.

When it comes to a new Openreach FTTP installation, for many broadband providers there seems to be a common workflow assumption (in the ordering process) that the customer will no longer want or need their copper connection. Removing the copper cabling from the street to a premises can sometimes make the job of installing a fibre connection easier, and it reduces the amount of unused legacy wiring out there cluttering up ducts and poles.

Right, glad I asked! Thanks.

I went ahead with the following:

- took a broadband only upgrade to FTTP with Plusnet (existing FTTC broadband and copper wire landline with Plusnet)
- Once installed, this cut cut both the broadband and phone line within about an hour (the engineer said that would happen once he closed the job)
- I had already set up an A&A account and temporary VOIP number, so knew that was working fine
- as soon as the FTTP was confirmed working, I requested the now disconnected (in quarantine/holding for 30 days) landline number port to A&A
- A&A confirmed the port had been accepted and would complete 1 week later - that happened today.
- Everything now working ok, and I'll cancel the temporary number as I don't need two