BT openreach planning to use poles for FFTH Rollout

A friend has brought this to my attention that BT openreach are planning installing new telegraph poles for FTTP rollout in his area , is this common practice in an area where the existing line plant is directly buried or in ducts? it just seems a little backward

Poles are cheap, and the underground lines may be direct bury.

I don't get the problem with poles, but then I grew up in a town where they are absolutely everywhere so I guess I'm used to them,

Exactly, next we’ll have people moaning about lamp posts!

The benefits of decent internet far outweigh the minor visual intrusion.

In reply to a post by gorebrush:

Poles are cheap, and the underground lines may be direct bury.

I don't get the problem with poles, but then I grew up in a town where they are absolutely everywhere, so I guess I'm used to them,

and @Kr1s69 I understand your points, but in an area with near zero poles, Unless direct buried line plant, Underground VIA EXISTING DUCTING, should be the preferred option, not poles that can cause restrictions in the future

Use of existing infrastructure will be the preferred choice but they may use poles if there is no available underground duct,existing duct maybe full or blocked/damaged . Duct overlay may add significant cost and time and result in an area becoming unviable.

Edited by witchunt (Wed 24-Jan-24 23:18:35)

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Use of existing infrastructure will be the preferred choice but they may use poles if there is no available underground duct,existing duct maybe full or blocked/damaged . Duct overlay may add significant cost and time and result in an area becoming unviable.

As will future damage caused by cheapness over quality build wise, (but the same costs are passed on to the consumer)

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Use of existing infrastructure will be the preferred choice but they may use poles if there is no available underground duct,existing duct maybe full or blocked/damaged . Duct overlay may add significant cost and time and result in an area becoming unviable.

As will future damage caused by cheapness over quality build wise, (but the same costs are passed on to the consumer)

There's an aesthetic element too, especially in an area that doesn't already have any poles, that can cause homeowners to come over all NIMBY on the planning people.

I am pretty sure that my own fibre install stalled for 3 years because a pole that was supposed to be installed outside someone's house, never appeared because, I suspect, they opposed it. The planning notification went up to say it was happening, sat there for 6 months and then quietly disappeared again without a further word being said.

Fortunately, my own install is now moving forward (see other thread about YouFibre) using the mix of poles and ducts that my end of the streets already has, but I foresee some bumpy times ahead for the rest of the estate, much of which has no poles, no ducts and, according the cable map, dug-in cables throughout. Either the whole lot will have to be dug up for new ducts, or they're going to put poles up. And, knowing some of the people that live up there, I suspect that the cheaper option of poles is going to generate enough opposition as to cause a bit of a headache to those who would rather have better internet.

Apparently, YouFibre are heading up there next, so I guess it will be interesting to see which option they choose, and how it's accepted (or fought!) by the residents.

I don't see poles as being cheap. More that its easier to maintain. If done properly and not say put 4 poles with in 20m of each other (we have 4 within 10m of each other) then its reasonable.

People don't complain about street lights and those are effectively a pole!

How come 4 poles within 10m of each other ?

Openreach poles are usually about 40 to 50m apart.

Do some of these belong to Altnets ?

An extra set of pole appeared near me - all the copper is u/g, the electricity is o/h - and now so is the fibre (less than 5m horizontally, which I'd have thought would be undesirable anyway...)

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

How come 4 poles within 10m of each other ?

Openreach poles are usually about 40 to 50m apart.

its a cross roads (well cross lane! 😂) so some are going into those private lanes etc. but its slightly mad. OR had to re-arange the fibre earlier this month which was initially put up in 2020/1.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Do some of these belong to Altnets ?

nope .. won't be until wessex internet comes along. I just want OR to finish their build so i'm not saying anything !

In reply to a post by tommy45:

A friend has brought this to my attention that BT openreach are planning installing new telegraph poles for FTTP rollout in his area , is this common practice in an area where the existing line plant is directly buried or in ducts? it just seems a little backward

Common practice where existing plant is directly buried sure. Where there are existing ducts not a common practice as usually more economical to repair the existing plant unless what's there is really bad.

In reply to a post by tommy45:

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Use of existing infrastructure will be the preferred choice but they may use poles if there is no available underground duct,existing duct maybe full or blocked/damaged . Duct overlay may add significant cost and time and result in an area becoming unviable.

As will future damage caused by cheapness over quality build wise, (but the same costs are passed on to the consumer)

Poles have been fine for decades. If your ducts are so badly damaged poles are the more viable option you aren't a cheap build: the cheap builds are doable with existing ducts and poles with only repairs and minimal remedial work being needed. If Openreach are overlaying completely there is either a fair amount of directly buried cable there or the existing ducting is a total mess.

If the local community don't want poles Openreach won't build them, just object and ensure enough of your neighbours join you to make it clear to them.

In reply to a post by Taras:

People don't complain about street lights and those are effectively a pole!

Not a very good analogy. A street light underground or mounted at ground level just wouldn't be very effective.

For telecoms and power we have a choice and most people prefer their cables out of sight underground.

Edited by Andrue (Thu 25-Jan-24 14:13:01)

My area is all DIG - they dug up and put in microducts down one side of street, and other feeds off the main ducts.

All still underground

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

Exactly, next we’ll have people moaning about lamp posts!

The benefits of decent internet far outweigh the minor visual intrusion.

In your opinion. Street lights have to be mounted on poles because otherwise they'd be useless. Telecoms cables function perfectly well out of sight underground so that's where they should be.

Sometimes putting in poles is the only financially viable option, they will have looked at the costings for all delivery methods before deciding on poles.

its still a pole! and it wasn't an analogy ..........😀

None of my area has any street lamps baring were one or two streets have complained

No need to shout but you asked why poles were being used in a direct bury area or where ducts are.

Yes, clearly, if the underground ducts are good and there's a route to every house then poles seem pointless, totally, but I was pointing out the direct bury point. It's a very sore subject for me as I am sure it'll be the reason why Openreach will skip my street, and ironically there are no poles to use....

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by Kr1s69:

Exactly, next we’ll have people moaning about lamp posts!

The benefits of decent internet far outweigh the minor visual intrusion.

In your opinion. Street lights have to be mounted on poles because otherwise they'd be useless. Telecoms cables function perfectly well out of sight underground so that's where they should be.

What a blinkered view of reality!

People have a right to complain about poles that were not there before.

Given the choice no one would have telegraph poles because they don't add anything to an area. If electricity, water, sewage, cable TV and gas can all be hidden out of sight on our streets, why not fibre? If we are modernising the UK telecom infrastructure that means installing underground, not going for an installation practice that dates back to the actual telegraph! Its done because its cheap, that is the only reason, but doing things cheap costs more in the long run. In many cases the vast majority of this overhead infrastructure and new poles will go unused as companies go bust or get bought out, then they start becoming unsafe and the tax payers problem.

Poles need replacing at some point, cables get damaged by the weather and winds or get broken by vehicles or high loads, they get cut by tree branches and the cables have to carry their own weight 24/7 and don't last as long as those underground. Poles run out of capacity, there are health and safety issues for staff climbing them and connection boxes are exposed to all the elements.

There is also the fact that this is important infrastructure that should not be left above ground. The UK had the chance to do it right and legislation should have been brought in to force new FTTP installations to go underground, and rather than adding to the street furniture, poles could have been removed along with the redundant copper saving future maintenance costs.

This was the original proposal for FTTP delivery in my street, despite the existing copper being (partially) underground - the reason cited was that the existing ducts were blocked, and so poles were the cheapest alternative.

I wasn't too bothered, as I was more interested in getting the fibre speeds than worrying about the visual impact. Neighbours had other ideas, however, and the poles were vetoed.

I was a bit hacked off as I thought it would lead to a long delay, or even mean we were taken off the rollout. Turns out we were only delayed by about 6 months, at which point they dug up and replaced the damaged duct and laid the fibre following the existing copper route.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by tommy45:

A friend has brought this to my attention that BT openreach are planning installing new telegraph poles for FTTP rollout in his area , is this common practice in an area where the existing line plant is directly buried or in ducts? it just seems a little backward

Common practice where existing plant is directly buried sure. Where there are existing ducts not a common practice as usually more economical to repair the existing plant unless what's there is really bad.

I would imagine most of the area urban (built up) mainly will be ducted, though if i look on Google Maps shows a lot of trees in some locations, so Maybe duct damage due to roots ?

Edited by tommy45 (Thu 25-Jan-24 16:19:57)

I would imagine most of the area urban (built up) mainly will be ducted,

I would suggest that your assumption would be wrong. Many, many, urban estates aren’t ducted, especially if built during the 60’s to mid 70’s

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would imagine most of the area urban (built up) mainly will be ducted,

I would suggest that your assumption would be wrong. Many, many, urban estates aren’t ducted, especially if built during the 60’s to mid 70’s

Direct buried then, Our street is older and that has ducting according to a OR engineer who i spoke to some years ago , but i do know that there is no actual duct from the footpath to my home, Some time ago the electric engineers had the paving flags up to locate the incoming cable and there was the BT cable in a coil not even buried lying on top of the soil

Exactly. Light poles are a necessary evil for the obvious reason I mentioned. Cables do not need to be above ground and poles should not be introduced into areas where they aren't already unless the majority of residents are happy with it. I'd also agree that this would be a good time to remove existing poles, reclaim the copper and bury the fibre.

Let's tidy neighbourhoods up, not make them look worse.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would imagine most of the area urban (built up) mainly will be ducted,

I would suggest that your assumption would be wrong.

The split of lead-in types in the BT network was published in an Ofcom document in 2019.

Overhead (poles) 50%
Underground - ducted 45%
Underground – direct buried 5%

In reply to a post by Taras:

I don't see poles as being cheap. More that its easier to maintain.

Poles must definitely are cheaper to install than ducting. Significantly so. Easier to maintain, yes. More vulnerable to weather-related damage, but less vulnerable to damage by other utility works

In reply to a post by mpellatt:

In reply to a post by Taras:

I don't see poles as being cheap. More that its easier to maintain.

Poles must definitely are cheaper to install than ducting. Significantly so. Easier to maintain, yes. More vulnerable to weather-related damage, but less vulnerable to damage by other utility works

Sorry, I didn't quantify what i meant and i know i was unwell at the time. if existing ducting is fine, then new poles aren't cheap. But in a build were there is multiple collapsed ducts, which can add £xx,000s to the build then poles do become cheap. So its a relative thing!

Exactly. Plus, if there's a problem with the connection between the pole and your home at any point, it becomes much easier to fix.

I was shocking as Openreach put a notice by the lamp post in my area to installing 3 x openreach telegraph poles as planning work for full fibre.

I thought Openreach are supposed to do full fibre by under the ground? As all houses by mine are run by underground copper.

My next door neighbour are now moaning don't want telepgraph pole next to their house as Openreach marked their door number as planned. They will refused to have it there, if refused are granted what are my chance of having full fibre? Might not go ahead now.

Edited by adslmax (Wed 08-Oct-25 12:19:48)

The statutory notifications don't mention why the poles are going in. There's notice what's planned in terms of hardware but not usually purpose.

In your general area see a pole replacement and two new poles in areas that are already served by them. You sure?

Yes I am sure of it. Saw lamp post saying 3 x poles to be install by openreach but didn't say when?

That's was in my area.

There are no streetworks scheduled between you and Woodside Avenue right now but then there won't be yet, if you read the notice again you'll see they have to give a month of notice give or take.

Those estates can be a mess of who owns what and with a lack of pavement in some bits even minor issues might be a big problem so quite believable they may want to put a few light poles in to go around issues. If it's ducted and you've chambers for equipment to live in poles will probably carry fibre around the duct blockages only.

There's no date on the notifications informing when the work will be done. Does the notification have the locations of each pole? You'll be able to draw a line along them and put the pieces together from there if you do but either way a waiting game. Neighbours can object to poles but can't stop them.

Here is the screenshot of the lamppost
Deleted (too much zoomed in)

here is it https://i.postimg.cc/x8vJLkph/20251008-094502.jpg

Edited by adslmax (Thu 09-Oct-25 20:03:54)

In reply to a post by adslmax:

Here is the screenshot of the lamppost

https://ibb.co/yFXTDscN

No salient info there. And truth be told, you have told a few porkies in the past . Xxx

I think I have zoomed in too much as I have upload again

https://i.postimg.cc/x8vJLkph/20251008-094502.jpg

Edited by adslmax (Thu 09-Oct-25 15:59:23)

This went on a street lamp outside your very next door neighbour's home?

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

This went on a street lamp outside your very next door neighbour's home?

Yes

Strange.

You sent Openreach a postcode for the next street along from this street lamp asking about FTTP and they replied to you about their plans for what they thought was your specific address quoting that postcode and street name. Neither the house behind that street lamp or the ones either side can order the G.fast service you have. The ones in the postcode you mentioned to Openreach can so likely you aren't next door, you're a footpath and some green space between streets away which isn't exactly directly next door.

If a pole is going in the location mentioned on the notice it's nothing to do with the street you asked Openreach about either way. The other two would probably be on the street in question forming a path around a difficult section to connect to reach the ducted network. I guess you wanted to start a conversation or are very confused but poles in the next street along is nothing to do with you.

The alternative is you email Openreach asking about their plans for a street which is also nothing to do with you claiming it's your address and that seems much less likely.

I guess have to wait and see. But Openreach says my area is planning for full fibre in April 2026 if all goes well. If there is engineer coming to install the poles then I don't know why cos I am connected to PCP 8 Cabinet to the G.fast side! Maybe error from local planning council to put on the street lamp post.

XGS_Is_On: you says all the underground already ducts and cable ready for full fibre but I haven't seen any openreach anywhere in my area at the moment. I see some vans up the top of Anslem Court, Aqueduct last week.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I guess have to wait and see. But Openreach says my area is planning for full fibre in April 2026 if all goes well. If there is engineer coming to install the poles then I don't know why cos I am connected to PCP 8 Cabinet to the G.fast side! Maybe error from local planning council to put on the street lamp post.

XGS_Is_On: you says all the underground already ducts and cable ready for full fibre but I haven't seen any openreach anywhere in my area at the moment. I see some vans up the top of Anslem Court, Aqueduct last week.

I didn't say anything about the duct and cables being in place to provide you FTTP and you don't seem to understand the point about the poles: not everything Openreach do is for you. If you don't live in that street and going by previous correspondence you don't the poles are nothing to do with you.

The notice was put on the street lamp by Openreach, it's not a council planning matter. Your picture shows exactly where it is just FYI.

Correct, though: wait and see.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/broadband-compa...

In reply to a post by adslmax:

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/broadband-compa...

What is your point for sharing this link?