Fibre Training Period

Hi,
Had erratic speeds for a while, actually line is over 2 months old, I moved as old ISP could pot resolve.

The new one is saying it can take up to 14 days for the line to stabilise?

Then they are fibbing. If the line tests OK, and it’s set up correctly, then what you get is, bar a few nuances, what you get.

In reply to a post by Ahmedg:

Hi,
Had erratic speeds for a while, actually line is over 2 months old, I moved as old ISP could pot resolve.

The new one is saying it can take up to 14 days for the line to stabilise?

for partial fibre internet - fttc up to 10 days for it to settle down, with fttc the line is constantly monitored for line condition changes.

for full fibre internet - ZERO.

Thanks, it is FTTP, thought that might be the case, just wanted to double check.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Then they are fibbing. If the line tests OK, and it’s set up correctly, then what you get is, bar a few nuances, what you get.

Its likely they are just following scripts. No provider is going to expect an end user to get the difference between FTTC/FTTP and its just easier to train Tear 1/2 support to say the same thing.

(I've seen the same thing in manuals for products with Li-ion batteries - tell you to fully charge the product for several hours and run it down to zero before recharging. Perfect for NiMH but really bad idea for Li-ion. Thankfully that is less of a problem now but was common for years after Li-ion was standard.)

Who is the offending ISP?

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by Ahmedg:

Hi,
Had erratic speeds for a while, actually line is over 2 months old, I moved as old ISP could pot resolve.

The new one is saying it can take up to 14 days for the line to stabilise?

for partial fibre internet - fttc up to 10 days for it to settle down, with fttc the line is constantly monitored for line condition changes.

for full fibre internet - ZERO.

The 10 days has only ever been an ADSL thing.
FTTC is adjusted by the DLM from the second it goes live and it never stops adjusting.
There's nothing written anywhere that says there's a 10 day stabilization period on FTTC and there never has been.

ISP's just continue to use the 10 day / 14 day thing as a cop out to shrug off new customers who complain.
By the time 14 days are up, so is your cooling off period.

Edit: the 10 training period isn't even just an ADSL thing. Specifically it's a BT Wholesale ADSL DLM thing.
Sky and Talktalk ADSL DLM don't have the same 10 day training.

It's a cop out and providers shouldn't be aloud to shrug users off like that.

The OP has FTTP where there isn't even a DLM and his provider (who has never ever had a 10 day training period on ANY of their connections) is plucking "14 days" out of thin air.

Edited by j0hn83 (Tue 05-Mar-24 17:16:43)

That's correct as Engineer told me on FTTC/G.fast there is no 10 days training period. DLM take control of it on the day of new service activated. DLM is just doing it own job 24/7/365 to adjusted it, most line (stable one) DLM just leave it alone as it on day one of new service.

Edited by adslmax (Tue 05-Mar-24 17:23:47)

Look up😉😉

Whilst there is no specific period on FTTC it does make sense that it takes some time for DLM in some cases to find the balance. If it isn't good on day one DLM will hopefully kick in and improve it over a period of time. That period of time is dependent on the characteristics of the circuit. But, it makes sense for an ISP to say "please wait x time for the DLM to settle the line to a stable level". The value of x is debatable but as ADSL had 10 days it also makes some sense to use the same figure so as not to confuse staff or customers.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Whilst there is no specific period on FTTC it does make sense that it takes some time for DLM in some cases to find the balance. If it isn't good on day one DLM will hopefully kick in and improve it over a period of time. That period of time is dependent on the characteristics of the circuit. But, it makes sense for an ISP to say "please wait x time for the DLM to settle the line to a stable level". The value of x is debatable but as ADSL had 10 days it also makes some sense to use the same figure so as not to confuse staff or customers.

When FTTC launched in 2010 and from then until 2015 all lines started on an open profile (fastpath) and there was nothing the DLM could do to make them faster, only slow them down.
For those 5 years providers still threw in the 10 day training period nonsense.

It's only the 2015 rollout of G.INP to Huawei cabinets that brought in the possibility of the DLM improving things after the circuit 1st connected. ECI cabinets still connected as fast as the line could on the day it was provisioned. It was another 3-4 years later that the ECI DLM changed meaning the DLM could improve things after provision.

There is no balance to be found on FTTC DLM.
A line now syncs with G.INP enabled on day 1. If that isn't a high enough rate then the provider should investigate. They have a fixed time to resolve low sync speed faults and that starts as soon as you notify them, not on day 10.
The possibility of the DLM lowering the lines SNRM target 2, 20 , 200 days in the future doesn't come in to it. It isn't even possible on ECI lines atm.

"ADSL" did not have a 10 day training period. Only parts of the the BT Wholesale ADSL DLM which only ran on BT Wholesale DSLAMS/MSANS had it.
None of the LLU providers had this training period.
When FTTC launched it was mainly certain BT Wholesale providers who were throwing out the 10 day training period nonsense, probably down to staff mixing up products or poor training.

Openreach who own the DSLAMs and run the DLM don't mention anything about training periods. They don't make providers wait x number of days after a line goes live for the DLM to make adjustments.

The offending ADSL DLM that had a 10 day training period it simply locked the provider out from making changes to the DLM for 10 days after the last change was made (or from when the line went live).
They would tell customers we can't make changes at the moment your are still within the 10 day training period. See how it is after the 10 days and get back to us.
It actually made changes downwards over the 10 days, taking a note of the lowest sync.

It makes no sense to me to argue that because 1 product from 1 wholesaler had a 10 day training period for specific reasons, we should just apply that to every provider of a completely different technology because it's easier for staff and some customers to understand. Even though it's a disadvantage to the customer.
It's that attitude that means we have the same stuff being said by a provider on an FTTP circuit.