Identifying phone line duct

Openreach are due to be installing FTTP in my area in the near future. I live on a 1960s estate with underground cabling and exchange only lines - hence no fast broadband option to date other than Virgin or 4g. The whole estate is cabled underground, with multiple Post Office or BT chambers set into the pavements. Openreach tell me that my house has a Direct In Ground installation, and properties where FTTP has recently become available show on the Openreach wholesale checker as ‘partial Direct in Ground’.

However I am wondering if my property may actually have the copper phone line routed through a duct rather than just buried in my garden. The line emerges from a 1 inch robust black plastic pipe that runs a little way up the front wall of my house, with the standard (not armoured) black phone cable emerging from it then connecting to a circular black junction box, and the line then going from that into the property. A number of neighbours have exactly the same arrangement, so it looks like this was the standard BT connection method.

My question is, is this black piping likely to connect as a duct all the way back to the pavement chamber in front of my house, about 10m? In which case I assume Openreach would investigate whether it could be used to make the FTTP connection before digging a trench across my garden. The latter wouldn’t be the end of the world, but would cut through quite a bit of planting which it would be nice to avoid if possible.

Any advice or best-guesses appreciated! .

Edited by SNR1 (Thu 21-Mar-24 22:36:38)

Best guess is that this would be a duct. But it could also just be a bend, giving protection at digging depths. Given the age, I would go with it being a duct, because some of the modern DIG 'methods' would not have been remotely acceptable in the 1960's and you would expect an armoured cable for DIG.

Not common, but seen enough, for me to suggest that the black pipe you describe isn’t a duct. Just a short length to add extra protection as it emerges from the ground.

If you could post a couple of clear pictures that would take some of the guesswork out of it.

AFAIK, duct 100 is black in colour, small diameter conduit , not much larger in size than the cable within it , and could potentially exist the full distance from the house wall to the footway chamber , or simply exist as as a jointbox poke out , and the final few feet at the customer wall , but it may as well not exist at all , as it’s assumed that this is type of duct is unserviceable anyway , the only way it could be used would be if the existing copper cable were used as a ‘draw rope’ , to pull through the fibre lead , this obviously destroys the copper cable ( and any service over it ) but its still unlikely that this will work anyway, in some circumstances failure may not be an issue as the copper cable has no service over it , but in many cases it will be delivering the customers existing service, and there is no way to restore the copper service should some other issue arise with the FTTP installation.

The first stage work is not normally done the contractual date for FTTP to start , the copper service ( if there is one ) isn’t scheduled to end on this date , but on the second stage visit date , the first stage is to get a cable from point A to point B , leaving the rest of the installation for the second stage visit , endangering the existing copper service is best avoided.

Partial DIG should always be two stage installation, if at first stage visit , with agreement from the customer ( should the copper cable be in use ) to save themselves work , the ‘civils’ team may try to use this duct/conduit , and should it fail revert to plan A and provide a new duct from the jointbox to house wall , or they may consider even attempting to use it a waste of time and simply provide Duct 56 , there is no set answer, it depends on the people who visit .

Edited by Iniltous (Fri 22-Mar-24 09:09:31)

Thanks so much for the helpful replies, I appreciate the time you have all taken to offer advice. I'm linking a photo as suggested. The pipe / duct just goes into the ground behind the plant, and seems pretty firmly embedded:

https://pbase.com/image/174429257

But it looks like the answer in a nutshell is "maybe" this is a duct, and "maybe" if it is it could avoid the need for digging to install FTTP - I will only know for sure when a site visit is undertaken after I place an order. The current copper line is not in use, and there are no plans for it to be, so if it ended up being destroyed during investigations that would be no loss.

Thanks again.

Edited by SNR1 (Fri 22-Mar-24 16:57:45)

That is duct100. Unlikely to be of much use.

Would be nice if the duct was held by the clamp and the cable sheath was inside the box.....

You could try digging down alongside the duct to see how far it goes down. If it is DIG then the duct has just been used to protect the cable as it exits the ground.

Openreach seem fairly confident that duct 100 installs won't stop FTTP being deployed, here's an entry from the BT Wholesale checker on a property with FTTP available and copper cabling installed in this way:

"Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG premises served by 1 Inch duct 100."

FTTP installation process is listed as KCI2 Assure.

If you pull the copper cable and it moves then you have your answer as to how usable the duct is likely to be.

Edited by jpm (Sat 23-Mar-24 12:21:01)

The fact it’s KCI2 assure indicates a two stage installation, a duct 56 installation with no anticipated issues, it’s a single stage , so no visit prior to the contractual installation date .
There will be some instances where duct 100 is utilised, the copper cable used to pull in the fibre tail ,but the survey policy is it’s assumed that it won’t be serviceable ,so two stage is indicated , whereas D56 is assumed to be OK unless evidence to the contrary, and single stage indcated , duct 100 in place has no bearing on FTTP being made available , in the same way DIG cables don’t stop FTTP being deployed, there are many factors in determining when and where OR decide to provide FTTP , in the OP case , it makes no difference, they would get exactly the same order journey if they were a in a DIG area, the existence of duct 100 may prove to be a bonus for the installation team or an irrelevance, the OP will no doubt find out if they order service

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 23-Mar-24 12:57:22)

Would be nice if the duct was held by the clamp and the cable sheath was inside the box.....

It would. Proof positive that the ground it’s in has sunk since that was all installed back in the 60’s/early 70’s. Easy enough to fix if required.

I’m with FibreBubble … the chances of that tubing being usable are pretty damn slim.