FTTC to FTTP upgrade - internal fitting

I'm hoping I can persuade the OR fitter to reuse the existing hole in the wall to bring the fibre in and remove the existing copper . Obviously there's an OR phone point, what will my options be?

As far as I can see (internet image search) OR would usually drill a new hole for fibre and cover than internally with a disc like cover 2 or 3 cms diameter. Rather than have a new hole drilled the fibre could enter using the copper path. But then it's behind the phone socket. That can be removed but then do OR have a new cover to replace that but with an entry way for the fibre?

I'm making this sound complex... How's it usually done?

The ‘caps’ you describe cover a ‘funnel mouth’ which then has a smaller dimension tube connected, and meets a similar arrangement the other end. The purpose of this tube is to protect, and stop and drooping of the fibre as it comes through the wall voids. Also the cable can be neatly cable tied to ready made anchor points in the funnel affair giving good bend radius management.

I seem to recall that they were often in short supply from the stores.

If the current hole appears straight into the rear of the back box behind the current NTE, I would suggest that the fibre can be brought out through the NTE then up into the ONT.

The OR chap did exactly this with me. Used existing phone line hole, fed fibre cable through it then out of a hole at bottom of master socket to the ONT mounted directly above it. Old master socket left in place but doing nothing more than covering up the hole.

You could buy a brush plate to replace your master socket, but Openreach don't carry these.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest that the fibre can be brought out through the NTE then up into the ONT.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

Old master socket left in place but doing nothing more than covering up the hole.

How does the fibre pass through the NTE / Master Socket then? Are they drilling a new hole in the faceplate? In which case, could I supply a blank plate - with or without a hole already drilled? That way I get a neater finish with the redundant NTE / Master Socket removed.

In reply to a post by jpm:

You could buy a brush plate to replace your master socket, but Openreach don't carry these.

Mmmm, hadn't thought of that. Was thinking of a blank plate with a hole drilled for the fibre.

This https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK1090.html would be better, because it directs the optical out parallel to the wall. It's part of the problem I have with the mushrooms, that they needlessly direct the optical away from the wall.

On the whole, I think that the solutions for getting the optical out of the wall are poor. In the end, I went on ebay and got the ONT housing that Openreach use for newbuilds, which is not generally available.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

This https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK1090.html would be better, because it directs the optical out parallel to the wall. It's part of the problem I have with the mushrooms, that they needlessly direct the optical away from the wall.

I'm worried about the bends! If the fibre is coming straight into the back box it's then got to do a tight bend to get out into the room. But I see why this is a smart way of wanting to do it.

In reply to a post by DFScale:

On the whole, I think that the solutions for getting the optical out of the wall are poor. In the end, I went on ebay and got the ONT housing that Openreach use for newbuilds, which is not generally available.

Do you have a link for this? I don't know what I'm looking for here.

Thanks

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest that the fibre can be brought out through the NTE then up into the ONT.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

Old master socket left in place but doing nothing more than covering up the hole.

How does the fibre pass through the NTE / Master Socket then? Are they drilling a new hole in the faceplate? In which case, could I supply a blank plate - with or without a hole already drilled? That way I get a neater finish with the redundant NTE / Master Socket removed.

There's a notch cut out the bottom of my NTE5A. No idea if the newer NTE5C master sockets have the same notch. It's wide enough for the fibre.

I used the same notch to terminate my modem to master socket patch cable direct to the IDC in the master socket back when I had FTTC.

Edit: found an image from 2019 with my FTTC setup. FTTP looks identical but with an ONT where the Zyxel modem was.
https://ibb.co/zR760kr

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 31-Mar-24 16:06:18)

I used one of these ONT Terminal Boxes to mount on the wall with the ONT inside, it screws onto a standard backbox with mounting posts for the ONT. The fibre comes in through the backbox.
ONT Terminal box

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I would suggest that the fibre can be brought out through the NTE then up into the ONT.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

Old master socket left in place but doing nothing more than covering up the hole.

How does the fibre pass through the NTE / Master Socket then? Are they drilling a new hole in the faceplate? In which case, could I supply a blank plate - with or without a hole already drilled? That way I get a neater finish with the redundant NTE / Master Socket removed.

There's a notch cut out the bottom of my NTE5A. No idea if the newer NTE5C master sockets have the same notch. It's wide enough for the fibre.

I used the same notch to terminate my modem to master socket patch cable direct to the IDC in the master socket back when I had FTTC.

Edit: found an image from 2019 with my FTTC setup. FTTP looks identical but with an ONT where the Zyxel modem was.
https://ibb.co/zR760kr

Exactly that John.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

There's a notch cut out the bottom of my NTE5A. No idea if the newer NTE5C master sockets have the same notch. It's wide enough for the fibre.

Yes, thanks, I've got a couple of 'spare' 5Cs and they have a notch. This looks like the best solution for me. I have the parts and it makes for a neat finish.

Thanks all. I'll be back to moan if the OR fitter says they have to drill a new hole. Its taken three visits to get my stage 1 done, the interior must be simple....

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Thanks all. I'll be back to moan if the OR fitter says they have to drill a new hole. Its taken three visits to get my stage 1 done, the interior must be simple....

How did they do stage 1? Where is the CSP in relation to the current copper entry point?

I'm in a new build and had FTTP installed before CSP's were used on all installs but if I had a CSP it would have gone straight on top of the elephants foot ducting and then straight through the wall, no wires showing at all.

Like this: https://ibb.co/L00h4cP
I basically have this, but with the old grey copper cover instead of the new CSP pictured.

I see so many installs with the fibre popping out the side of the old copper cover, run a foot along the wall then in to the CSP, then back out that and in to the wall.

Edited by j0hn83 (Sun 31-Mar-24 18:07:48)

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

Thanks all. I'll be back to moan if the OR fitter says they have to drill a new hole. Its taken three visits to get my stage 1 done, the interior must be simple....

so we are taking bets who has the bodged install then 😂🙈........

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by DFScale:

This https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/MKK1090.html would be better, because it directs the optical out parallel to the wall. It's part of the problem I have with the mushrooms, that they needlessly direct the optical away from the wall.

I'm worried about the bends! If the fibre is coming straight into the back box it's then got to do a tight bend to get out into the room. But I see why this is a smart way of wanting to do it.

You can bend the optical surprisingly tight, I think that the 10p coin has been cited. Or a 50p, which is a bit ambiguous. If you have the depth of a back or a surface box, you can wind the optical from 0900 forward to 0600 and out the frontplate on relatively gentle curves

In reply to a post by Woolwich:

In reply to a post by DFScale:

On the whole, I think that the solutions for getting the optical out of the wall are poor. In the end, I went on ebay and got the ONT housing that Openreach use for newbuilds, which is not generally available.

Do you have a link for this? I don't know what I'm looking for here.

Thanks

Yes, this:

In reply to a post by Bam16:

I used one of these ONT Terminal Boxes to mount on the wall with the ONT inside, it screws onto a standard backbox with mounting posts for the ONT. The fibre comes in through the backbox.
ONT Terminal box

I'm in a new build and had FTTP installed before CSP's were used on all installs

Do you mean your install was via a ‘field fit’ connector put directly on the end of the cable from the CBT ?

The original installs had a CBT too, taking the BFT from the DP node, and then the Eezee bend cable from the ONT. The field fit installs came after these, and were later changed again to the style of CBT you link to.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

I'm in a new build and had FTTP installed before CSP's were used on all installs

Do you mean your install was via a ‘field fit’ connector put directly on the end of the cable from the CBT ?

The original installs had a CBT too, taking the BFT from the DP node, and then the Eezee bend cable from the ONT. The field fit installs came after these, and were later changed again to the style of CBT you link to.

In-between those install types.

It's a single cable from the CBT in the footway box, no CSP, black outer sheath removed inside the reveal the inner white cable, cut to length with a field fit connector at the ONT. Very shortly after my install the test of the street started getting CSP's.

The CSP pictured isn't mine. It's just how it should be done imo. I see so many installs with the fibre popping out the side of the cover 101a, to the CSP, then out the side of that
The CSP is literally designed with replacing a cover 101a in mind.

It's a single cable from the CBT in the footway box, no CSP, black outer sheath removed inside the reveal the inner white cable, cut to length with a field fit connector at the ONT.

Yep, that was the type of install I was referring to.
Always detested them, especially if it was overhead fed. Always seemed to get the install where the punter insisted the ONT was to go in some inaccessible point in the house. Stripping the black outer sheathing with its three steel strengtheners was a huge ball ache, and had to be done quite delicately to protect the fibre within.
The field fit connectors were a faff, often wouldn’t ’make’ properly, or would test fine, then go faulty shortly after. Hasslesome indeed.

I’d agree that the CBT fitted correctly on the 101 looked tidiest.

In reply to a post by j0hn83:

How did they do stage 1? Where is the CSP in relation to the current copper entry point?

Well, I don't actually have a CSP yet...

The surveyor put me down as a two stage install as he was worried that decorative chips may have fallen down the duct. I'm in a new build too, but not new enough to have FTTP from the get go. I also don't have an 'elephant's foot' or any other protection for my copper. It appears from under the decorative chips as a cable and goes into the house via a small diameter tube. Turns out there is an unprotected duct under the chips.

So stage 1 of Stage 1 was OR bloke rodding from the house and finding a block a couple of metres in. Very solid and his camera showed the duct full of water. No water in the pavement chamber through. He had me sign life away to allow someone to come and dig up the lawn.

Stage 2 of Stage 1 was another bloke who confirmed first bloke's block. He decided he needed to dig a hole but before that he could had to have 'build plans' as he didn't trust himself not to find the gas pipe first. He also needed a friend so spent most of the morning waiting. Genuinely, really. Once second OR bloke arrived (presumably with plans) they dig a hole in the lawn. They dug where their rod was stopped and the hole was in the perfect position to see it. However there was no duct or copper cable. Their scanner said the duct was actually a couple of feet over. Numerous excuses were made as to why they couldn't dig another hole and how a third crew would be sent probably to break into the duct under the pavement and run a the fibre direct under the lawn. The pavement was marked up, they packed up and spent the next couple of hours (genuinely, really) chatting outside before finally leaving just before knocking off time.

Stage 3 of Stage 1 saw another couple of OR blokes with proper civils gear arrive. They worked out where the duct runs under the lawn and rather than dig the pavement dug the lawn. The broke into the duct and have run a hose pipe diameter duct just under the lawn to the house. At the house that wee duct is a foot or so from the copper. There is a cable coming out of it. Whether that's a fibre I'm not sure as I wan't present when the work was done. It's black and looks like fibre - armoured or otherwise protected perhaps - to me.

Stage 1 of Stage 2 will require the fitter to fit the CSP then. Hopefully they won't be expecting to be there already. Hopefully I can persuade them to run the fibre through the copper tube and tidy it all up with an elephant's foot.

wow, thats an install and a half, how bad is your lawn now........? 🙈