Another “my neighbour can get fibre” query

The village I live in mostly has full fibre, iirc rolled out by Openreach under a community voucher scheme in 2021. My home is one of a handful in the village that were omitted from scope as we are just over the border into an area served by a different exchange from the rest. The result is that of the 19 properties in my postcode, mine is the only one with no fibre access. So…

- I raised a “my neighbour can get fibre but I can’t” query with Openreach, but all I got was a generic “we don't have any plans to upgrade your area” response and the suggestion that I should pursue a FTTP on demand solution.

- I am waiting on a fibre on demand quote from one supplier but I have little hope this will lead to an affordable solution. It’s a scattered village and with most of it already covered, finding neighbours to share the cost probably isn’t an option.

- I tried the USO route but the immediate response was “You can already get speeds of 10Mb or more” which is interesting because I absolutely cannot (6-7 Mbps from FTTC at best).

- The village that hosts the exchange I am connected to has full fibre via a commercial altnet, but that rollout stopped about 2km short of my property.

- The early coverage data I saw for the local authority Project Gigabit rollout due to start next year suggests I am also out of scope for that, but once they are through the survey / planning stage I’ll have a better idea. In any event, I’d guess realisticaly it’ll be several years before they’ll look at an isolated property like mine, if they ever do.

- I am doubtful Starlink would be a good option because nowhere in my garden has an unobstructed view of the sky due to the number of tall mature trees. My area is covered by a TPO so cutting them down wouldn’t be an option even if I were minded to do so.

- In theory my area is covered by an older WiMax service (deployed ca. 2007 ?) which I looked into some time ago, but iirc the issue is that my property is in a dip with no line of sight to a mast.

- There is no 5G coverage here and while 4G works up to a point, download speeds are erratic and reliability isn’t great. I use it for some devices to take the pressure off the FTTC connection, but it’s not an entirely satisfactory solution on its own.

The reality of rural broadband Short of selling up and moving, are there any other avenues I could pursue to get fibre rolled out here within a reasonable timeframe ?

Thanks.

You do seem to be knackered at every turn, having all your postcode with FTTP and you not does limit your options, someone may suggest getting an extra FTTP service at one of your neighbours properties and then getting some line of sight equipment to hook you up to it.

Edited by PCJM40 (Fri 12-Apr-24 16:58:03)

Presumably your response to the USO query was via their website, try phoning them and pushing back when they tell you that you can get over 10Mbps, escalate as a complaint if necessary, see what happens.

Hi,

I have one question: What you refer to exchanges and an exchange boundary, are you talking about the exchanges which supply fibre (FTTP and FTTC, aka "head end" exchanges), or are you talking about your local copper exchange? The difference might be important as to how readily Openreach would consider extending the fibre already in the village to your property. If you are at a boundary between head-end exchanges then you will probably have more of a challenge than otherwise.

I would agree that going back to those who are claiming that you already have service that meets the USO is a good idea - they either know something you don't, or more likely, are wrong and need to change their point of view.

Thanks - the land rises in the direction of the village so I can’t physically see any of the houses that have fibre, although they are only a few hundred yards away. The couple of houses I can see from here are in the same situation as me, so unfortunately some sort of private wireless link isn’t going to work in this case.

The exchanges I’m referring to are the local copper ones. I think the only relevance here is that the coverage area of the exchange (Pluckley) that serves most of the village was used to scope the community voucher deployment. I’m just into the area covered by the adjoining one (Charing). Where the village gets its fibre feed from I don’t know.

In terms of USO, I haven’t progressed past the web site so far. Two possible reasons I can think of why it may be saying no - according to the BT DSL checker, my estimated VDSL “high” sync speed is stated as 11.8 Mbps. But I’ve never seen this in the 8 years I’ve had the service… I’m usually syncing at around 8 meg, sometimes less. Other possible reason I guess could be a false flag because of the other properties in my postcode. I’ll give them a call after the weekend and see what I can find out.

sign up on the front page of tbb, and log your speeds over several days, and different times in the day

also look at https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/gigabit-b...

you may have recourse that way - that route would need 2 properties at a minium and about 2 years wait.

You may be USO compliant from a mobile network, so it could be irrelevant if >10Mb isn’t available from your copper pair service.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

You may be USO compliant from a mobile network, so it could be irrelevant if >10Mb isn’t available from your copper pair service.

True and easily forgotten! That said with starlink and the like, doesn't it make USO irrelevant (in general not the op's case as he's tree los issues)

The USO has a cost element to it, which Starlink doesn't meet as all their plans are more than £56.20/month.

I also don't like the idea that the solution to not having FTTP to a village that is on the mains electricity and water networks is to burn 150W 24x7 a day connecting to a satellite, it's too much like giving up.

Edited by jpm (Sat 13-Apr-24 12:24:30)

I think it’s borderline in my case, depending on exactly how they apply the >10Mbps criterion. Will check with the USO team.

In reply to a post by jpm:

The USO has a cost element to it, which Starlink doesn't meet as all their plans are more than £56.20/month.

I thought the cost element was for the build only ? I'm not saying that Starlink should be part of the uso, but more if everyone in the uk (barring los issues) can get star link doesn't it then make the uso obligation pointless, as they can turnaround and say "hey you can get starlink etc"

In reply to a post by jpm:

I also don't like the idea that the solution to not having FTTP to a village that is on the mains electricity and water networks is to burn 150W 24x7 a day connecting to a satellite, it's too much like giving up.

I agree, both project gigabit and the gigabit voucher scheme, fall down on singular properties, where one in a post code can't get fttp for what ever reason. The GVS scheme needs two properties to make it work for that location. Project gigabit, if one property can't get gigabit, we will award a contract for the whole of that postcode - why not just fund a smaller amount for that property to the existing network builder.

It’s just possible I could fing a second property in the area to make GVS work, but according to the website it’s closed for new applications in my county. So unless the USO route plays out I don’t have anywhere else to go with this unfortunately.

It’s a shame I can’t just pay Openreach to sling an extra 500 yards of fibre up from the village on the poles along the road outside my house, but few things in life are that simple.

Edited by AdamF2000 (Sun 14-Apr-24 12:42:56)

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/project-...

I know you said that project gigabit was bypassing your property. The above link is the postcode derived outcomes, its the latest that i can find, but can you give us the gigabit outcome, black, grey or white for your postcode?

In reply to a post by Taras:

if everyone in the uk (barring los issues) can get star link doesn't it then make the uso obligation pointless, as they can turnaround and say "hey you can get starlink etc"

It would, yes. That's why there's a "reasonable cost" test otherwise even before Starlink came along you could wave away the USO requirement by showing that there would be at least one leased line provider who would be happy to spread install costs across the monthly payments but in reality it wouldn't make a household with only access to slow ADSL any better off.

https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-interne...

Also Starlink has a finite operating capacity, so it would only remain an option to push people down if fibre availability were good enough to limit demand for alternatives to manageable levels.

Thanks, that is more recent than the last cut of that data I saw. My postcode is showing “white”, with 18 “grey” premises and 2 “white”. That’s one more white than previously, although mystified where that is as there is no building going on round here.

The Project Gigabit map I saw was early / high level, so I may need to park this until CityFibre have done their surveys. If I’m definitely not on their list, maybe something I can challenge with the council.

Is Cityfibre your county's awarded supplier ?

Also in theory, as your gigabit white, the contract winner, is a obliged to roll a gigabit capable service to that postcode

In reply to a post by AdamF2000:

- I am doubtful Starlink would be a good option because nowhere in my garden has an unobstructed view of the sky due to the number of tall mature trees.

How close/tall are they ? We have a row of oaks all the way down one side of our 15 metre wide garden and I was doubtful of getting a good view of the sky.

But it only took putting the dish on a 4 metre pole to give it the view it needs, even though it is only about 10 metres from the oaks.

Didn't cost me that much do to, I bought a length of thick walled aluminium scaffold pole (rather than steel, so no worries about corrosion), a post digger and a bag of postcrete. The scaffold pole was around £100, though looks like they've gone up a bit since.

https://www.themetalstore.co.uk/products/aluminium-s...

With my Mk1 dish I was just about to shim the pole on the dish to give a tight friction fit into the top of the pole.

In reply to a post by jpm:

150W 24x7 a day connecting to a satellite, it's too much like giving up.

Starlink doesn't actually use 15OW in typical usage now. Early on in the beta phase the gen 1 hardware definitely did use something like that a lot of the time.

But the gen 1 hardware now idles at around 50W and doesn't use that much more when active in "normal" usage. It does use a lot more if it has engaged it's snow melt mode (which you can completely disable).

And obviously if you are downloading at 300mb/s 24/7 it will use more...

I'm told the gen 2 hardware idles at 20W.

Yes they are. Thanks, will watch as they publish the detail and push back if it looks like I’ve fallen down the cracks. Didn’t realise there was a 100% commitment to white properties in these contracts, the numbers published previously never quite seemed to add up. Will continue the USO and FTTPoD routes for now in case there’s a shorter path.

Edited by AdamF2000 (Sun 14-Apr-24 15:14:31)

Thanks. There are mature oaks, ash, sycamore, pine scattered all over the site, some old and huge. If it comes to it I’d rent the kit for a while and see it works reliably.

In reply to a post by AdamF2000:

Yes they are. Thanks, will watch as they publish the detail and push back if it looks like I’ve fallen down the cracks. Didn’t realise there was a 100% commitment to white properties in these contracts, the numbers published previously never quite seemed to add up. Will continue the USO a d FTTPoD routes for now in case there’s a shorter path.

its not 100% as some will fall out of reach even for project gigabit - like the £100k plus per a property type thing.

it might be worth doing that till something better comes along

In reply to a post by Taras:

its not 100% as some will fall out of reach even for project gigabit - like the £100k plus per a property type thing.

The origin of my confusion about this was the 2021 Project Gigabit RFI for my county. It refers to 190,000 white properties (which I can believe has come down a fair bit since), then a reference to the council looking to award a contract to roll out to 72,000, and finally the recently signed contract with CityFibre for only 50,000. I don’t have the detail to understand why these figures are so different. Wait and see, I guess.

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/uk-gigab...

it does look as if they added some exchange areas into the kent area for project gigabit purposes. Yes from 2021 alot of things have changed as in more premisses have become viable etc.

The things that you should have on your list

check out how much one month's starlink would be
Check on cellmapper to see where your local masts are, just to confirm your previous mobile results - you may need to post in the mobile section.
Wait on Cityfibre to update their mapping for project gigabit.
The desktop quote for fttpod.
Also look at if oneweb is operational now and their pricing too.

Edited by Taras (Mon 15-Apr-24 08:47:41)

I have Starlink and it uses roughly 1-1.2kW a day, so costs about £8.75 a month (roughly) to run. When you're paying £75 a month for the service, then another £8-9 on top is pallatable for a service that is always above 100Mbps in the absence of availablity of anything else that is faster.

Hi,

In reply to a post by gorebrush:

I have Starlink and it uses roughly 1-1.2kW a day, so costs about £8.75 a month (roughly) to run. When you're paying £75 a month for the service, then another £8-9 on top is pallatable for a service that is always above 100Mbps in the absence of availablity of anything else that is faster.

I'm sure you know this but I think you mean kWh, not kW - they are different units.

What you have written is very similar to someone saying they download 500Mbits/sec every month and is similarly meaningless.

Feel for you, it seems so stupid that during the rollout, no one had the foresight to think to move you on to the other exchange, it surely wouldnt have been much work, assuming your neighbour is actually close proximity to you. Its not like when they change it for a street, they would just be extending the copper a few metres for the legacy services and extending the FTTP deployment by a few metres, but sadly telco rollouts can be strange beasts.

Problem for you now is if it requires more than a database change, is convincing them to justify works to connect one more property.

Curious what a FTTPoD order does for you? Would be crazy if you was quoted 1000s when they would be just adding a few metres.

I wonder if you can make a deal with a neighbour?

Edited by Chrysalis (Mon 15-Apr-24 20:01:19)

Amusing postscript to this. Received my initial FTTPoD quote. Suffice to say I’m unimpressed

Here goes:

We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: Greater than £100,000

Edited by AdamF2000 (Thu 18-Apr-24 11:20:41)

FTTPoD is a request for a one off bespoke build, potentially without the economies of scale that would result from a more widespread rollout to the surrounding area.

Sadly due to the local topology, sharing a connection with a neighbour isn’t an option for me.