ISPs Prep FTTP Plans for Openreach’s 1.2Gbps & 1.8Gbps

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadb...

To be honest, no one need that kind of speed for home. I don't blame ISPs think it not worth it to have it on board.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I don't blame ISPs think it not worth it to have it on board.

I think the alt-nets show there is demand for higher speeds, often upload.

This report is fascinating and shows that Openreach is likely ahead of the BTwholesale division that many ISPs buy connectivity from to GET to Openreach.

On Gpon, no thanks, but xgs-pon yes please.

I can see a few scenarios where residential connections could use 2gbits+ but for most part you don't need it. But with that type of speed you should be using QoS to manage devices.

As jchamier said, many want a higher upload speed, which you just can't really do on gpon, i would argue the same with 1.2gbits and 1.8gbits download too. I'd be more than happy with 2gbits/1gbits connection. That said i'm happy with my 1000mbits/115mbits connection.

A big factor for a lot of ISPs will be that they currently only have 1G Cablelinks from the Openreach Layer 2 Switches. In that instance, in order to offer the 1.2/1.8Gbps packages, they'd need to order 10G Cablelinks to each L2S in the exchange which is a lot of extra cost for no guarantee that they will get any orders.

I've been mulling offering these packages to our customers but with the caveat that there may be a 2-4 week delay between the customer ordering with us and the service going live so that if we need to order a 10G Cablelink we can get it in place.

Customers can decide for themselves what they need based on the options presented to them, it's nobody else's place to tell them that they are wrong

In reply to a post by adslmax:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadb...

To be honest, no one need that kind of speed for home. I don't blame ISPs think it not worth it to have it on board.

Think we know which tier you'll be ordering when it goes live in your area, then.

Well you can do higher than what OR offer on GPON, Cityfibre do just that, surfing here with 1000mbits upload on GPON. Of course its risky, but I suppose they can make a new split, or later replace with a XGS-PON connection if things get messy.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadb...

To be honest, no one need that kind of speed for home. I don't blame ISPs think it not worth it to have it on board.

Might be the odd few if they have a very large family or a lot of people sharing, like in some of these houses of multiple occupations, but only if they are all dong 4K or downloading a load of stuff at the same time. For a single person or even two people, they would not get anything extra out of it. I could go to 2Gb/s, but what is the point? I have nothing here that will take advantage of it.

I expect the majority of people can cope with 100Mb/s, but will listen to the sales rubbish and be talked into getting something they don't need.

Used to be the same with computers, went into PCworld many years ago with my next door neighbour as they wanted a computer, I just stood back and listened to what the sales bloke was trying to sell him. Something in the region of a grand, so I stepped in and got some for around £400 which did the job they wanted.
I would not have got it from there, but neighbour wanted it that day
Sadly, this is what is happening with FTTP, people being hoodwinked into getting something they don't need and paying for it.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

To be honest, no one need that kind of speed for home.

What someone wants and what they need are on different lists

If you want it and can afford it, go for it

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Well you can do higher than what OR offer on GPON, Cityfibre do just that, surfing here with 1000mbits upload on GPON. Of course its risky, but I suppose they can make a new split, or later replace with a XGS-PON connection if things get messy.

Of course, in a given area Cityfibre are unlikely to exceed 20-30% takeup anyway, whereas Openreach in the long term could have the remaining 70-80%, so contention is more of an issue for Openreach.

Having said that, I don't see why OR couldn't offer peak 200M upload on GPON today. If they did a 1800/200 service that would be an incentive to upgrade.

There is a 1000/220 service already from OR but it has a ludicrously high installation and monthly charge, and even BT themselves don't retail it. (Makes me wonder whether they install a dedicated PON for it?)

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

I expect the majority of people can cope with 100Mb/s, but will listen to the sales rubbish and be talked into getting something they don't need.

The altnet in my town only offer one speed, if you want the service you get 900 / 900. They don't see the point in offering slower services.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

The altnet in my town only offer one speed, if you want the service you get 900 / 900. They don't see the point in offering slower services.

Hopefully at a good price as thats what drives a lot of people?

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

Hopefully at a good price as thats what drives a lot of people?

Was £29 out of contract, going to £33 in May. I would sign up but for wayleave issues.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/04/broadb...

To be honest, no one need that kind of speed for home. I don't blame ISPs think it not worth it to have it on board.

Think we know which tier you'll be ordering when it goes live in your area, then.

Once FTTP become live. I will order FTTP 330/50 that more than enough for me. But, I probably go to the cheaper 160/30 because speed isn't everything these days now. Either I pick 160/30 or 330/50 depend on the pricing.

Also knowing BTw are probably won't selling 1.2Gbps or 1.8Gbps to ISP for a long while yet. Only EE can offering this.

I expect ISPs will use it as a defensive upgrade measure to retain customers.

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I probably go to the cheaper 160/30 because speed isn't everything these days now. Either I pick 160/30 or 330/50 depend on the pricing.

On Aquiss it's the difference between £42 and £45, so I pay the £45 for double the speed, down and up.

On Plusnet it's even closer: £28 to £30 (plus two in-contract price rises)

With Zen it's £35 for 115/20 or £40 for 300/30; they don't seem to offer 160/30.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by adslmax:

I probably go to the cheaper 160/30 because speed isn't everything these days now. Either I pick 160/30 or 330/50 depend on the pricing.

On Aquiss it's the difference between £42 and £45, so I pay the £45 for double the speed, down and up.

On Plusnet it's even closer: £28 to £30 (plus two in-contract price rises)

With Zen it's £35 for 115/20 or £40 for 300/30; they don't seem to offer 160/30.

I will jump to Aquiss for FTTP when it go live. But I have to respect my ISP to finished the contract on G.fast until December 2024. So, FTTP could be for me in January 2025.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Well you can do higher than what OR offer on GPON, Cityfibre do just that, surfing here with 1000mbits upload on GPON. Of course its risky, but I suppose they can make a new split, or later replace with a XGS-PON connection if things get messy.

Of course, in a given area Cityfibre are unlikely to exceed 20-30% takeup anyway, whereas Openreach in the long term could have the remaining 70-80%, so contention is more of an issue for Openreach.

Having said that, I don't see why OR couldn't offer peak 200M upload on GPON today. If they did a 1800/200 service that would be an incentive to upgrade.

There is a 1000/220 service already from OR but it has a ludicrously high installation and monthly charge, and even BT themselves don't retail it. (Makes me wonder whether they install a dedicated PON for it?)

Was meant to be xgpon, and the install cost is £500. Gpon, has a frequency range, why can't two signals get sent down the same pon?

The typical frequency range for GPON is 1480 to 1500 nm for downstream and 1260 to 1360 nm for upstream transmission.

In reply to a post by Taras:

Was meant to be xgpon, and the install cost is £500. Gpon, has a frequency range, why can't two signals get sent down the same pon?

The typical frequency range for GPON is 1480 to 1500 nm for downstream and 1260 to 1360 nm for upstream transmission.

Never XGSPON, we thought that as we couldn't see any other reason for the absurd install fee. As it was we tried to find a reasonable solution when it was actually Openreach disincentivising the product.

Both coexist just fine on the same fibre.

I know xgspon, and 25g pon can all exist on the same pon.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I know xgspon, and 25g pon can all exist on the same pon.

Yes they can. But I've not seen any evidence that Openreach deployed XGS-PON for the 500/165 and 1000/220 products. Those products have been available for quite a few years now.

There *was* a suggestion in 2019 that they would trial 1000/1000 and 550/550, and those would use XGS-PON, but I never saw any indication that the trial had ever taken place.

Of course, if someone wants to order it to find out... the cost is £594 to install plus 12x£204 = £3,042 for one year of 1000/220 (or £2,466 for 500/165). No, I thought not

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Taras:

I know xgspon, and 25g pon can all exist on the same pon.

Yes they can. But I've not seen any evidence that Openreach deployed XGS-PON for the 500/165 and 1000/220 products. Those products have been available for quite a few years now.

I did wonder what happened to the 500/165 product! There has been the comments from nokia and andtran that OR now does have gpon/xgson pon olts. Nokia even has a 25g pon/xgspon/gpon combo olt.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Of course, if someone wants to order it to find out... the cost is £594 to install plus 12x£204 = £3,042 for one year of 1000/220 (or £2,466 for 500/165). No, I thought not

I was gonna put £500 for the install cost - so i wasn't far off 😂1000/220 looks competitive against 500/165 !!!!!! 😂

All OLTs besides the ECI have XGSPON capability including both the exchange-based and subtended headend Huawei. Openreach could buy combo or at least dedicated XGSPON line cards and use the coexistence elements any time.

The SINs give away which ONTs Openreach have in use and none of them are XGSPON kit.

The SINs should inform when XGSPON is a thing with trial announcements before that. Academic either way: be 1800/120 with a slightly larger ONT or 1000/220 with the same punishment fee for purchasing broadband instead of DIA

"people being hoodwinked into getting something they don't need "

Apple products!!!!!!

Much faster that YOU need.

Coincidentally, I watched a youtube video only a few days ago before the news publication of someone posting their video of upgrading to EE 1.6Gbps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LzPbRLLb2k
This is actually a 2 months old video. ISPReview are simply late to publish an article on it. The Youtuber shows that the EE supplied router does not have an Ethernet port of more than 1Gbps. Meaning speeds are capped to 1Gbps and you need your own router with at least 2.5Gbps LAN port.

However, he shows in his video that he gets 1.6Gbps in speed test using Mac directly connected to the Openreach modem (ONT) in order to get the full speed.

But the biggest problem is that the upload speeds are only 115Mbps. Basically this is still a worse service than having a symmetrical 900+Mbps service.

Openreach are using this 1.2/1.8Gbps package as a marketing tactic to squeeze out maximum performance using existing GPON instead of upgrading to XGS-PON or faster.

They probably think that this is a good idea to try and attract customers to switching to this service since many Altnets only offer 1Gbps for home users.

But the problem is that this package from Openreach is still far more expensive than any Altnet provider. Why would I pay £69.99 per month for 1.6/115 when I can get 1Gbps download and upload from someone like Community Fibre for £26?!

Not to mention Community Fibre offer 3Gbps symmetrical for £56 a month! Still a superior service and yet I still don't think I need that fast of a connection speed. It is just not rational yet at this stage.

The upload speed is far more important to most content creators and youtubers than the download speed. I'm sure there are users who'd rather have the package flipped! Have 1+Gbps upload and 100Mbps download.

Soon to be £72.99 a month for EE 1.6Gbps next March

Seen a comment reply from the ispreview author from January that claims Openreach XGS-PON rollout completion is imminent, so I am going to shut up on that one now in case that's true. That would leave Cityfibre pushing GPON hard on its 2g/1g package.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

ISPReview are simply late to publish an article on it.

No they aren't late. There have been a number of previous articles on ISPReview announcing the trial (of which EE were the only participant), announcing the end of the trial and official launch, and this article which is discussing ISP's and wholesalers like BT Wholesale getting ready to release tiers/pricing.

Links to the previous articles are within the latest article.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

But the biggest problem is that the upload speeds are only 115Mbps. Basically this is still a worse service than having a symmetrical 900+Mbps service.

For you and me, yes. I'd probably take 150/150 over 300/50 at the same price, but I don't get the choice.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Openreach are using this 1.2/1.8Gbps package as a marketing tactic to squeeze out maximum performance using existing GPON instead of upgrading to XGS-PON or faster.

Sure, it's a marketing tactic against Virgin offering 2G products in some (currently limited) areas.

But there is no business case for them to upgrade to XGS-PON: the vast majority of Openreach users are happy with 80/20, and if they *did* offer higher upload speeds on PON it would eat into their leased line business.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

But the problem is that this package from Openreach is still far more expensive than any Altnet provider. Why would I pay £69.99 per month for 1.6/115 when I can get 1Gbps download and upload from someone like Community Fibre for £26?!

Because you're in the fortunate position of having Community Fibre available, whilst most of us don't.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

The upload speed is far more important to most content creators and youtubers than the download speed. I'm sure there are users who'd rather have the package flipped! Have 1+Gbps upload and 100Mbps download.

If it *really* matters then they can order a leased line. What you're really saying is that there are people who want it, but don't want to pay such a premium.

Openreach cares about the mass market, and that's grannies and grandads who watch a bit of TV, and mums and dads whose kids are streaming and downloading games. For most of them, upload speed is irrelevant.

An interesting data point for you: Aquiss used to sell FTTP 40/2, 40/10 and 80/20 - with only £2 per month difference between the tiers. Despite that, 40/2 was their biggest seller, accounting for (if I remember correctly) 35% of all orders.

They dropped the FTTP 40/2 tier but only because Openreach dropped it at wholesale. (The wholesale price for 40/10 was the same as 40/2 anyway). And now it looks like they dropped 40/10 too.