FTTP available but no toby boxes or poles

Hey all,

I've been a long time lurker on these forums reading about peoples wait for FTTP and the trials and tribulations that many have gone through however this week has got the better of me so it's my first post.

We've been waiting since 2021 for OR to expand their FTTP network to our house, originally we were on a build plan scheduled for completion in 2022 however out street and part of the joining street was out of scoped.

I contacted OR in 2023 and was told it was just a case of playing the waiting game which I did and then in April I noticed that two Altnets and OR had started works again around our area but no changes happened on bidb.uk or the BT Wholesale checker so I contacted Clive Selley who put me in touch with the team at OR who advised that our estate was now in a sweeper project.

Overall the team have been great and have kept us updated with bits and bobs going on, we were advised they were laying new fibre cables and were installing the CBTs. We were also told that there are plans to roll out toby boxes around our street so in preperation I added some draw wire to our duct which we had previously installed for Virgin to pull in from their toby box.

Fast forward to last Friday and low and behold the BT Wholesale checker had the following statement:

Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:-Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG partial Direct In Ground.

FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered.

On the WBC FTTP row it shows was 1000/220 - Available - KCI2 Assure

I was skeptical however we then got an email from Zen advising FTTP was enabled so I wasted no time and put in an order via Freeola.

However I was slightly perplexed as we still haven't had any toby boxes installed and there are no signs of poles. We are located a stones throw away from our nearest OR floorbox however it would likely involve coming down by 5 houses to get to ours since we are at the end of the street (70s/80s houses)

OR phoned me after I sent an email enquiring about this as I'm absolutely terrified that we:

A - will end up having our order cancelled because there is no ducted route to our house
B - will be hit with an absolutely extortionate excess construction charge to proceed with the work

The representative was great as they advised it is highly unusual for an install to be cancelled at this stage and apparently there are still plans for work to be completed on our street however I'm hugely nervous as it feels like we are on the last hurdle and we might falter before we get to the finish line.

Currently our install date is set as the 20/08 (We placed our order on the 10/08) and Freeola have also advised that it's a two stage installed and that the survey will be conducted without needing us to be in however I've not seen any OR vans or workers in the area since receiving that.

I imagine I'm looking for a crystal ball to tell me want I want to know however has anyone else been in this position before and if so what were your experiences as I am "bricking it" to say the least as (Whist we are very lucky to have RFoG via VM) I am desperate to move away from VM after several CS issues this year and last year.

Any help, advice or comments would be hugely appreciated

In reply to a post by TechMinerUK:

However I was slightly perplexed as we still haven't had any toby boxes installed and there are no signs of poles. We are located a stones throw away from our nearest OR floorbox however it would likely involve coming down by 5 houses to get to ours since we are at the end of the street (70s/80s houses)

Do Openreach actually use tobies? And if they do, would they speculatively dot them down the street, one for each house? To me, it makes some sense for Openreach to go as far as installing the CBTs and go no further until someone orders, at which point do the works for the premises requiring service and put in tobies or whatever for houses on the same run at that time.

Try not to worry as its out of your control and wont do your health any good.

I have an estate not that far away where every time someone orders FTTP Openreach send round a team of civils who dig and do whats necessary to be able to get a fibre cable from the nearest joint box to the property without any excess charges.

They do, but it is the exception rather than the rule.

Your existing copper feed is via a direct in ground cable.

It says you can order, so order if you wish service.

Openreach will come and organise, and explain, and seek your permission where necessary.

The DIG process changed over a year ago , and as far as I know hasn’t changed again , Toby boxes are no longer a part of the build , the chances are in the footway chamber that exists OR will have provided the CBT that is designed to service your address and neighbouring addresses.

If you have ordered FTTP , a duct will be provided from this joint-box directly to your house ( no unnecessary Toby box at the boundary of the footpath and your garden ) , if the duct passes by 4 or 5 houses , so be it , some situations the duct may pass many more than that , or fewer , it depends on how the existing infrastructure is located.

If a neighbour between you and the joint-box also orders FTTP for themselves OR can intercept the duct laid to your address and ‘tee’ into it and provide more duct from that point to their address .
The advantage of doing this , you don’t spend huge amounts in advance by providing toby boxes to housing that may never order Openreach service , and should an Alt Net service the area , Openreach will not have made their lives easier, to the point that OR spend money and the Alt Net gets the benefits and OR never actually get any revenue ( apart from the peppercorn rent the Alt Net pays ) .

With the old system ( pre-build to the curtilage every address ) you could well have brand new ducts and Toby boxes with only Alt Net cables in them ( no Openreach cables ) because OR don’t have exclusive rights on new infrastructure , it’s exactly the same as infrastructure that’s decades old (, as far as PIA is concerned) , so OR do the build at great expense, and potentially an Alt Net gets the benefit, in my opinion it ridiculous that PIA allows this on new construction , but it does.

The disadvantage is potentially multiple construction visits to the same area , if neighbours order FTTP at different times , rather than a single long term build incorporating every address leaving only the short ‘step’ across front gardens when orders are received.

Unless someone lives hundreds of metres away from their CBT joint box, excess construction will not be an issue .

Edited by Iniltous (Sat 17-Aug-24 09:05:30)

@DFScale On the other streets near ours that had the roll out completed before the roll out was put on hold they rolled out Tobys to every house however now that I am thinking about it, it may be becaused they were putting in new ducts anyway so it made sense to cover the routes to the houses as they were building

@PCJM40 I try not to but it's been so long waiting for this however thank you for the input

@Zarjaz Thank you for the input, we've already ordered so we are hoping there are no issues when they come to install it, even spoke with the neighbors to make sure they are happy for any digging work to happen on the street.

@Iniltous Thank you for the info, that does help put me at ease as the houses which got the toby boxes were completed in 2022 so it was a few years ago now. Theres not a massive distance between us and the nearest joint-box. There is a number 32 joint box very close to our house however I imagine due to the age of it that it isn't ducted from the nearest "proper" joint box

Edited by TechMinerUK (Sat 17-Aug-24 11:12:44)

TBH , never heard of a ‘32’ jointbox , I suspect you have looked at backside first and it’s a jointbox 23 , and as you suspect these are not ‘proper’ jointboxes in that they were never intended to be part of a ducted system , and when it comes to the FTTP rollout are generally ignored .
JB23 are pretty common, especially in 1960’s to mid 1970’s housing .

In theory PIA shouldn't disfranchise the builder from creating newinfrastructure, but as you say it does and its not fair. If it was done fairy and no network builder looses out we may see more ducting rather than going overhead!

I can't even use looking at the back of it as an excuse as I've just flat out got my 2s and 3s mixed up

That is the one I am thinking of though so it looks like they will be going passed that one to get to our house