Are fibre wires from a pole intrinsically unreliable?

Many apologies for the length of this.

I've a 500 gps (I think what it's called) connection via plusnet. Sporadically it drops, often showing up as red lines in BQM. Often, it is the wee small hours, but frequently it is when my wife is connected via VPN to her employers.

I usually then log into the router, and ask it to disconnect. Then I wait 10 seconds and then, ask to reconnect to reconnect. (If I don't, nothing happens for about 30 minutes, then it sometimes seems to reconnect pontaneously).
I usuaully look at downdetectot for plusnet, which usually shows a spike of complaints around the UK around the time it happens. Beinfg mean-spirited, I usually curse Plusnet, or whoever owns the, I guess BT, and say so to my wife, who pays for the Plusnet connection.

In less mean-spirited moods, I wonder whether it might be that my fibre connection is overhead cables, maybe 50 metres long. Sometimes they wave around in the wind. But just now, at midnight, the connection dropped, with absolutely no wind.

What I *suspect* is that Plusnet, or BT, or someone are screwing around with some servers somewhere, to address some unannounced problems they have somewhere. (I'm in Edinburgh.) Downdetector's map doesn't show many local complaints, except in the usual suspects: London, Manchester etc. But DD's complaints-maps aren't very confidence-inspiring.

I've not complained to Plusnet, but feel pretty confident they will say, reboot your router, etc, and if I persiste, say they'll send an engineer. It *might* be noise on the fibre cable that occasionally swings around in the wind. How likely is that? The last drop was in windless conditions about 30 minutes ago. As usual, my router logs just say, essentially "the WAN's gone". mtr, traceroute and such tools give me the strong impression that Plusnet/BT routers are being guddled around with.

I think Zen make an attempt to inform you when BT are screwing around with servers or addressing physical problems somewhere. (I occasionally look at their relevant web-pages, but see no obvious coincidences with my issues.) Anyway, it would be great if Plusnet did something similar, and stopped pretending that sending engineers out was the professional thing to do, instead of 'fessing up to mucking around with remote routers.

Many apologies for the length of this, if anyone has actually read it.

theres 3 things here that could be causing the issue you have mentioned

1. your network has issues that you don't know about. For instance we do not know how your connecting (to i assume) fttc. We don't know your internal wiring to the master socket for instance.

2. adsl and ftcc are subject to line conditions, from cross talk to line quality, and external interference.

3. plusnet having issues.


Given the amount of disconnects you are suggesting are happening its unlikely to be PN. So maybe instead of moaning maybe explain objectively as to what is going on.

What is your set up?

In reply to a post by pi12ca:

my router logs just say, essentially "the WAN's gone". mtr, traceroute and such tools give me the strong impression that Plusnet/BT routers are being guddled around with.

I am really confused about this comment.

The wind has either broken the fibre or it hasn't. It won't be intermittent.

In reply to a post by pi12ca:

Are fibre wires from a pole intrinsically unreliable?

No. As mentioned previously, describe your setup and the fault and go from there.

In reply to a post by pi12ca:

I've a 500 gps (I think what it's called) connection via plusnet. Sporadically it drops, often showing up as red lines in BQM. Often, it is the wee small hours, but frequently it is when my wife is connected via VPN to her employers.

You could use the option to share the BQM, That way others could see your problems.

You could also call Plusnet Support and ask them if they can see and difficulties with you connection.

If you have another router or modem you could try that.

Is the router connected to the master socket using a filtered face plate?

My Plusnet FTTC connection works fine.

There is a Plusnet Community forum

In reply to a post by DFScale:

The wind has either broken the fibre or it hasn't. It won't be intermittent.

He may have confused fttc with fttp. I really don't know tbh - conflation is an issue when you are frustrated and do not understand how to resolve the issue yourself. The post is understandable from a frustration point but its also not helpful to resolve his issues with his internet connection.

My guess from the first post is that it is FTTP and that "500 gps" is 500Mbps.

I have ftp from plusnet, 500 Mbps. The router is an asus rt-ac86u, running Merllin firmware. When I had fttc, the router was fed from a Zyxel modem, but now it is fed from an Openreach (or BT?) ONT. For several months, it ran fine. Now, the Wan intermittently disconnects. The router's log simply says (for example):

Sep 2 04:59:10 router WAN_Connection: WAN was exceptionally disconnected.

I can see nothing just before or after in the log that isn't routine. Eventually, there is the log entry:

Sep 2 08:04:40 router WAN_Connection: WAN was restored.

Thie restoration was nothing to do with me. I was still in bed.

Actually, now I look at the log, between these two entries, the log is full (as usual) with what I think are iptables entries, dropping attempted connections from " Psychz Networks ". It seems to be normal to get 1000's of these every day (among other nefarious sources). This puzzles me. If I can't access the internet, how come it can even try to access me, getting as far as my router?

I'm afraid I don't currently have an log that shows what transpires when I voluntarily turn the WAN off and on. That's how I get things working again when my wife yells that her VPN to work has gone down again. It usually restores things in at most a minute.

My efforts to understand these phenomena are far from "expert". Before logging into the router, I try to ping 1.1.1.1. This fails. Then I try to use mtr to see if I can see anything beyond my external ip address. sometimes, I try to mtr to somewhere nefarious, like 198.144.159.105. Sometimes I *seem* to see the routes breaking down somewhere between Plusnet (Sheffield?) and BT Martelsham Heath. As someone presciently said above, in these situations one is often in a panic, and not thinking very rigorously, or forensically.

It occurred to me that there *might* be an intermittent or developing fault in my physical connection, in the air, over a couple of gardens. I doubt it, being as how things can work fine for a fortnight at a time, regardless of how much the wind is blowing. Anyway, that may explain the title of my original post.

I do have a plusnet router, that I've never used, because, looking into it, it would be an enormous hassle for various reasons, involving static IP's, password formats. I can however swap it in experimentally, to see if my rather aged router is going downhill. Maybe it's worth a few hours out of my life. However, if things go fine for a fortnight, well they sometimes go fine with the Asus.

I would suggest you try switching to the Plusnet router for a month or two and eliminating your own router as that would be the fairest thing to do before getting Plusnet or Openreach involved as you clearly have your own concerns about it.

The first thing I would look at when you internet is not working is to look at the LEDs on the little Openreach ONT - as this is converting the light signal in the fibre to ethernet. if you look at https://support.aa.net.uk/Openreach_FTTP_ONT The top right hand side picture shows the common recent type of ONT fitted and when working normally the Power LED and PON should be solid green. The LAN should be green but blinking/flickering when traffic is passing.

If this is not the case - maybe the LOS light is red - then you have a fault on the fibre side of the connection, and you need to call Plusnet to report the intermittent fault.

Why do you try and traceroute to a nefarious IP like the one you quoted? Is it because you see it in your logs as you have the firewall logging on?

Something does sound a bit odd with the Asus from what you describe - it is quite an old router - what firmware is it running - version/stock Asus/Merlin?

Given the trouble you are having - I would be factory resetting it at least - please tell me you haven't opened up access to the router interface or SSH to the WAN?

Despite the hassle I'd also try the Plusnet router - given you are having lots of problems with the internet going down surely having stable internet is less hassle?

I forgot to say 2 things that might be relevant:

(1) When I look at my Thinkbroadband BQM, often but not always, there is a red stalactite or latency kerfuffle when my internet goes down. These are usually times when I am in bad.

(2) Usually, on a out-of-bed disconnection, I look at the website downdetect on my phone. Almost always, there is a big surge in complaints there about plusnet broadband problems, that it exceeds their threshold between normal background noise and a genuine issue.

If I have inadequately described my "setup" now, or previously, I humbly apologise. If it's still unclear, just tell me a bit more specifically what might be important. It is fttp (ok, I said ftp). The connection is quite good (as advertised) when it works, judging by TTB speedtests from ethernet connected devices.

which merlin version are you on, as i had some weird disconnects earlier last year but seemed be more stable on the 386.12.7+ firmware. they are now on 14x firmware. I also saw it have a fight with my lte/5g modem switching between 1gbit/100mbits

Try adrenalize_'s suggestion of trying the pn router for a few weeks just negate it being your 86u. If the problem resolves itself then either the 86u has become duff or it needs a factory reset to resolve the issue.

Both pathways will be annoying.

Do post back with updates as this helps others who end up in the same position. Also thanks for clarifying the setup.

1. Make sure the fibre connection to the ONT looks to be fully fitted and similarly with power.

2. Change the Ethernet cable for a brand new one and ensure correctly inserted

3. Pu the PlusNet router in place and keep it there - see what happens.

If problems persist then you need PN to investigate, if they disappear, you have your anwer..


I would also suggest that if the link is so important for yor wife and work then a change of ISP to a business targetted provider should be implemented. BT Business have additional support available, next day targets for fixing issues and more.

I love these forums ask a question and get an advert.

btw BT Business is rubbish.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I love these forums ask a question and get an advert.

btw BT Business is rubbish.

Advert? Where?

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I love these forums ask a question and get an advert.

btw BT Business is rubbish.

how do you qualify that BT business is rubbish?

In reply to a post by MHC:

Advert? Where?

Its the same guy as below who gave it large about working for Openreach then didn't know the 3 letters in his OUC

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I work for BT openreach installing FTTP

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by pi12ca:

my router logs just say, essentially "the WAN's gone". mtr, traceroute and such tools give me the strong impression that Plusnet/BT routers are being guddled around with.

I am really confused about this comment.

Weel, being o' Scots descent ah ken weel whit the laddie says ... sorry but I couldn't resist it.

For what it's worth I've been with Plusnet for many years, first ADSL and the last few with FTTP. My supply has always been by 100m of overhead, first to a distribution pole feeding five houses, with ours over a busy road to our gable wall. We have never had a cable fault despite our fairly exposed site.

Suggest you supply the data requested by others who know more about it than me.

In reply to a post by Malwaremike:

Suggest you supply the data requested by others who know more about it than me.

Good advice.

Its expensive and nothing special compared to any other openreach wholesaler
They tried to make their services better by cheating but OFCOM seen through them and split the wholesale and retail up.

Who even asked for an opinion about BT Business
the conversation was not about BT retail

I didnt say I didnt know it I SAID I WONT TELL EVERYONE ON THE INTERNET.......
so PCJM repeat the rubbish all you like but stop crying about it.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

I didnt say I didnt know it I SAID I WONT TELL EVERYONE ON THE INTERNET.......
so PCJM repeat the rubbish all you like but stop crying about it.

🤣🤣🤣 Only crying with laughter fella because you was found out 🤣🤣🤣

Yes and if i asked you for your bank details would you not giving them to me mean you didnt have a bank account.

In reply to a post by pyarwood:

Yes and if i asked you for your bank details would you not giving them to me mean you didnt have a bank account.

Not a valid comparison fella, its actually more like asking you your bank sort code which reveals nothing about you but again your reply shows you don't really understand what an OUC is and most likely shows you don't work for Openreach.

So you think telling someone that my OUC is 'BOS' identifies me??? all it tells someone (who knows) is what type of Openreach team I'm in.

I think you (and some others) are right: I should try the plusnet router out. It is a *bit* of a hassle. However, neither I nor my wife had any connection problems for over a week. In the other direction the RT-AC86U is dropping out of Merlin support in December, so clearly I have to get some other router, and take a few hours to re-arrange my (comparatively simple) home setup. Some late nights are inevitable. Some practice is appropriate.

Off topic, it is extremely important to me that I can get ssh access to my router, and look around (in logs eg) and tweak things by a documented unix-like cli. Many things on my LAN are raspberry pi's, that become very tiresome to deal with when I can't remember the passwords, or have to change wifi things. Mind you, I don't have any complicated mesh setups, etc. I probably grumble too much.

More on topic, all I can do is speculate about what is causing (hopefully has caused) my WAN disconnections. I have many. They start with the windy days and the overhead fibre, and extending to the (to me) horrific, almost DDOS rates of attempts from Bulgaria and elsewhere to break into my LAN. More plausible, to me, is that Plusnet and/or BT and whoever, are struggling to reconcile their infrastructure/servers, generally (though hope) in the wee small hours when no sane person will be trying to use it. I wouldn't put it past them. Who would??

It's a perfect companion my friend your asking FOR MY PERSONAL INFORMATION I DONT WANT TO GIVE YOU AND THEN THINKING YOUR RIGHT BECAUSE I DONT WANT TO RISK MY JOB MY GIVING. MY BOSS A. CLUE THAT ITS ME ON A PUBLIC FORUM DISCUSSING MY JOB.....

I know EXACTLY what an OUC is I am not stupid enough to let you make me give you MY DETAILS.

Edited by pyarwood (Sun 08-Sep-24 23:03:38)

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4763499-re...

Sorry GonePostal

In reply to a post by pi12ca:

More on topic, all I can do is speculate about what is causing (hopefully has caused) my WAN disconnections. I have many. They start with the windy days and the overhead fibre, and extending to the (to me) horrific, almost DDOS rates of attempts from Bulgaria and elsewhere to break into my LAN. More plausible, to me, is that Plusnet and/or BT and whoever, are struggling to reconcile their infrastructure/servers, generally (though hope) in the wee small hours when no sane person will be trying to use it. I wouldn't put it past them. Who would??

I wonder if its a combination. As if they are having network problems them you getting DDoS attacks certainly wont help.

I'd probably get something that can run OpenWRT as it seems crazy Merlin is dropping support so soon, OpenWRT continues to support old hardware until they literally can't fit in the NAND or RAM any more.