We're not included in FTTP because of cost (32k)

Hi,

I recently made a post about the likelihood of getting Fibre FTTP as part of the rollout in the UK to our home on this thread which is worth a read first.

Last week I had a phone call from someone at Openreach saying that they've recently surveyed our area and that there's no existing underground ducting to lay Fibre, and that the original copper network is laid direct in ground.

They've told me that it's £100 per metre that they'd have to likely dig/trench and that they'd have to lay 350m for our property/street costing upwards of £32,000.

Because of this, we're not part of any upcoming plans for FTTP.

So does this effectively write off our street forever? If this means they won't install it, the copper network will just eventually die completely given it's age and then stop working all together thus creating some kind of legal obligation to reconnect us and then dig up the street?

So much for the UK funding areas with poor connectivity, seems like £32,000 for some 30 properties is too much?

Might not be forever, but Openreach would likely prioritise their spending on other...well cheaper builds, if they can get more bang for the buck elsewhere. They could spend £32K cabling your 30 properties or spend the same amount cabling 100 properties elsewhere, for argument sake. If they get the same take-up percentage then the latter is obviously a more commercially appealing proposition to them.

There is still a long way to go for them - they will likely be building out their FTTP network up to (and more likely beyond) 2030, so much could still change in terms of build priorities or other sources of funding that may make it commercially viable (sooner).

Have you and your neighbours applied for the Gigabit Voucher Scheme?

Post deleted by GonePostal

The bad news is that the USO requires a download speed of at least 10MBps (https://www.bt.com/broadband/USO) so your download of 20MBps quoted in your other thread means that any legal requirement to bring a broadband connection to your property has already been met. You may be able to better your existing download speed using the mobile telephone signal or something like Starlink but you have no claim for extra funding within the terms of the USO.

One thing you don't say is who triggered the survey by Openreach, was it part of an Openreach commercial rollout or via a government funded BDUK Project Gigabit rollout?

Edited by PCJM40 (Sat 16-Nov-24 22:51:56)

I suspect(99.99% sure) your postcode is gigabit white, on the project gigabit spreadsheets. Can you please say with county you are in as we can find out whom has been awarded the contract for your area.

In reply to a post by Taras:

I suspect(99.99% sure) your postcode is gigabit white, on the project gigabit spreadsheets. Can you please say with county you are in as we can find out whom has been awarded the contract for your area.

If the recent survey was for an Openreach commercial rollout surely the property wouldn't be defined as white in the government Project Gigabit OMR and would also be excluded from government funding for at least 18 months.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

One thing you don't say is who triggered the survey by Openreach, was it part of an Openreach commercial rollout or via a government funded BDUK Project Gigabit rollout?

Project gigabit wouldn't do that. Also if one property in a postcode area is not in any one's plans that whole post code is either under review or gigabit white. As OR has said all 30 properties are DIG, its kinda pointless going to urpn level!

In reply to a post by Taras:

Project gigabit wouldn't do that.

I've seen properties included in a BDUK rollout then excluded once they get to survey.

In reply to a post by ryan_holt8:

So much for the UK funding areas with poor connectivity, seems like £32,000 for some 30 properties is too much?

£1000 per property passed is not completely out of the commercial ballpark - they have a higher per-property allowance for USO installs. But that ducting is in *addition* to the normal costs of building FTTP, which probably brings you closer to £1300-£1400 total. That will put you to the bottom of the pile.

They may come back in a few years when they decide the benefits of being able to remove copper completely from your area outweigh the costs - or when they are able to get a government grant.

If you actually want to pay to get the job done (out of your own pocket or getting the neighbours to club together), you could look into FTTPoD or a Fibre Community Partnership. But that process is quite likely to take a year or more even if you were to kick it off right away.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Taras:

Project gigabit wouldn't do that.

I've seen properties included in a BDUK rollout then excluded once they get to survey.

ours did, multiple times. Hampshire CC then ran out of money. but what i said isn't about going out of scope. BDUK and Project Gigabit are different things even though its state aid for Gigabit capable internet. But anyways the OP is likely to be gigabit white (or gigabit under review)

edit: it seems bduk and project gigabit are intertwined with each other in at least wording. The scope of which is beyond the scope of this reply and in some ways not important to my reply

Just because a post code is gigabit white, doesn't mean its economic under Project gigabit to commence. As its around £1k per property that should be covered under PG.

The op should tell us expain what area they reside in (county) so we can find the lot winner and direct them to the correct network builder. Nothing else really matters at this stage.

Edited by Taras (Sun 17-Nov-24 11:31:28)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by ryan_holt8:

So much for the UK funding areas with poor connectivity, seems like £32,000 for some 30 properties is too much?

£1000 per property passed is not completely out of the commercial ballpark - they have a higher per-property allowance for USO installs. But that ducting is in *addition* to the normal costs of building FTTP, which probably brings you closer to £1300-£1400 total. That will put you to the bottom of the pile.

should be in the ballpark for PG, as a quick check on
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/project-g... shows funding up to £1972. Also gigabit voucher is up to £4500 per property passed.

From the OPs other topic https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4766398-li... "I live in South Wales, particularly in the Ogmore Valley within the Bridgend county."

From the OP's other thread:

In reply to a post by ryan_holt8:

I live in South Wales, particularly in the Ogmore Valley within the Bridgend county. I've lived here for around 20 years, and our part of the valley where we live, within the small community of Pant-Yr-Awel, Dan-Yr-Heol have had poor broadband for this time.

To give you an idea, when we first moved here, before Fibre and Gfast, standard broadband was in the region of 16mbps, but we'd top out at 5mbps, then came along FTTC, and this boosted homes to (at the time) 38mbps, though we can only get 20mbps.

We've had 20mbps now for well over 10 years, we live almost 0.75 mile from the cabinet. Cabinet number 7, and on the opposite side of that road if the Fibre cabinet.

In our area, Dan-Yr-~Heol, there's no overhead cable drops, and we're slightly off of the main road, so presumably cables run underground in ducting under pavements.

It's CF32 7HY

Cabinet P7 served are:
https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1...

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 17-Nov-24 13:11:03)

there is fttp in Ryan's exchange area

intresting response on OR's when and where

we're expecting to start or restart building Ultrafast Full Fibre soon and when we do, we’ll typically be building as far and fast as we can in the area. The first (or next) homes and businesses should be able to order Ultrafast Full Fibre broadband within 12 months or sooner.

and this

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/bandwidth-boost-f...

Hopefully Ryan will get FTTP in the next year or so, under project gigabit and (hopefully) via OR.

thanks Pheasant for linking the two threads together!

update. Also bidb.co.uk is suggesting he may get three 5g if he needs speeds now

Edited by Taras (Sun 17-Nov-24 13:31:23)

Looks that way. Seems the postcode area is both Gigabit White and Gigabit Under Review according to the latest NR OMR (May '24) - listed as part Lot 44

Look like Openreach have been awarded Lot 44C:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/08/openre...

“In terms of Wales specifically, the government says this means that – once all the related Type C contracts have been awarded – a total of around £170m of public money will go toward extending gigabit-capable broadband to benefit around 70,000 hard-to-reach Welsh homes and businesses. But the exact details of Call Off 3 – 6 won’t be known until they’ve been officially awarded, which is expected by around the end of this year.”

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 17-Nov-24 13:59:46)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Looks that way. Seems the postcode area is both Gigabit White and Gigabit Under Review according to the latest NR OMR (May '24) - listed as part Lot 44

which will mean it will be branded gigabit white for funding purposes. Given what Ryan has said in this thread its interesting some are under review. i guess what he has been told means its gone to white since!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Look like Openreach have been awarded Lot 44C:


https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/08/openre...

“In terms of Wales specifically, the government says this means that – once all the related Type C contracts have been awarded – a total of around £170m of public money will go toward extending gigabit-capable broadband to benefit around 70,000 hard-to-reach Welsh homes and businesses. But the exact details of Call Off 3 – 6 won’t be known until they’ve been officially awarded, which is expected by around the end of this year.”

it does look as if there was a lot of discussions with the gov. I'm glad we found (or you did) the post code so we could do some digging (no pun intended!) It also expains the strange message thats on the where and when or page. At least Ryan knows whats happening beyond what he knew before.

In reply to a post by Taras:

i guess what he has been told means its gone to white since!

The status of a property surely only changes at the next OMR, considering Ryan only got the call a week or so ago from Openreach its extremely unlikely his properties status has since changed within the Government Project Gigabit programme.

Lets all be honest, until Ryan himself confirms what status his property is in its just a guessing game.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by Taras:

i guess what he has been told means its gone to white since!

The status of a property surely only changes at the next OMR, considering Ryan only got the call a week or so ago from Openreach its extremely unlikely his properties status has since changed within the Government Project Gigabit programme.

Lets all be honest, until Ryan himself confirms what status his property is in its just a guessing game.

Correct but because we don't know if his was under review under the may omr and now is white due to the or survey or of course his property was white in the first place .. Anyways its unimportant as the end result is the same, i think we now know whats happening for him.. Which at this stage is a good thing - unless it changes!.

In reply to a post by Taras:

i think we now know whats happening for him..

Do we? please remind me of what you think is happening.

Edited by PCJM40 (Mon 18-Nov-24 09:31:15)