LLU operators with Fibre broadbannd.

I don't know if this actually an option but can I get a fibre broadband service from other than Openreach.

The Term 'LLU' springs to mind but does this apply to Fib re broadband?

That depends upon where you are.

In reply to a post by Sandgroundor:

I don't know if this actually an option but can I get a fibre broadband service from other than Openreach. The Term 'LLU' springs to mind but does this apply to Fib re broadband?

LLU really only existed when the service was from the exchange and the “local loop” of copper wire from your home/premises to the exchange. With FTTC this stopped working.

In the full fibre days its down to the companies whom have installed fibre in your road. Openreach, CityFibre, nexfibre are the big ones, along with Virgin Media whom have high speeds mostly over coax. Then you have the more local ones, often in the Thinkbroadband news, such as Toob, Brsk, and others.

Try the Better Internet Dashboard (bidb.uk) to see what is in your postcode.

Possibly, but they are referred to as altnets (Alternative Networks)
Try one of the broadband switching sites for options as they are location dependent.

LLU is only relevant for ADSL services, which hopefully you're not limited to.

Also pre-emptively do not use the Samknows checker, it's over a decade out of date now and won't give you any useful information.

Edited by jpm (Mon 16-Dec-24 19:48:51)

In reply to a post by Sandgroundor:

The Term 'LLU' springs to mind but does this apply to Fib re broadband?

No. For Openreach FTTP, they provide a wholesale lit GPON service, and you have to buy it through an ISP that uses the Openreach network.

The only unbundling is at the level of passive infrastructure (ducts and poles) which other operators (altnets) can use to install their own fibre.

You'll need to do some research to find out if any altnets are available in your area.

Of course, if the altnet fibre goes through the same duct as the Openreach fibre, and the duct is badly damaged, it could affect both equally.

In reply to a post by Sandgroundor:

I don't know if this actually an option but can I get a fibre broadband service from other than Openreach.

The Term 'LLU' springs to mind but does this apply to Fib re broadband?

As noted above - this analogy in the world of fibre to the premises does not apply in the UK.

You would need to be somewhere like Switzerland where they effectively have “unbundled” fibre infrastructure to the premises aka dark or unlit fibre.

Openreach does not provide this. What they do provide are two alternatives
- GEA FTTP which is described above, a PON based service for other service providers to run their own service over. Openreach maintain the end to end leg from the premises to their headend / handover exchange, not necessarily closest / local exchange either.
- leasing of their duct and pole infrastructure, via the PIA facility to proscibed communications provider to install their own fibre infrastructure be that FTTP broadband or other products such as Ethernet.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

You'll need to do some research to find out if any altnets are available in your area.

It's worth noting that, almost beyond belief, there is no single location you can go to to find out which providers can provide service to your house. If you're coming to this cold, then it can actually be quite tricky to work out if there are providers (beyond Openreach-servers ones) operating in your area. Ultimately, you might have to go and physically look at the poles to see what's hanging from them, but this gets much harder when it's all underground and you can't see anything!

I tried a few from a simple Google of "which fibre internet is in my area", based on my home address which has no OR fibre and a single altnet (Youfibre), as well as sluggish VDSL:

* Openreach only show OR services
* MoneySuperMarket offered BT fibre (not available), Onestream (not available), Fibrely (not available) Sky (Also openreach, not available) and Youfibre (this one was actually correct but a long way down the page!). All of the others were either OR or just plain wrong.
* Ofcom offered me VDSL only and reported no fibre available
* USwitch actually got it right, and offered Youfibre at the top of the list, with other offers being various OR VDSL-based options
* cable.co.uk got it wrong and only offered VDSL
* GoCompare got it wrong and offered several providers that are not even in the vicinity of my house. They did offer Youfibre, but again a long, long way down the list and as most of the others were wrong, you'd be lucky to pick the one correct answer from the list

In short, it's a mess. The best way round here would be to ask people, but as few even seem to know about our single altnet, and fewer still have signed up, you're likely to get bad information. Honestly, the best way would be to look at a pole, and note that there's a few "Netomnia" labelled junction boxes. Quick google will soon put you onto a likely provider.

Edited by daern (Tue 17-Dec-24 15:00:15)

Did you check on bidb too? Often a very helpful resource.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Did you check on bidb too? Often a very helpful resource.

Only when in build, it seems, as it's mostly sourced from public works notifications. Once the network is in and stable, you'll see very little activity. e.g. for my house there's absolutely nothing reported in the local area, and the only two service providers it says are available are hyperoptic and fibrenest, neither of which is actually present. Youfibre who actually do cover most of the area aren't even shown.

That said, it was a useful resource 12 months ago when I was watching their deployment progress as they extended towards my area, so it's certainly not without value. But if you move into a house 5 years from now (or are even interested in buying a house and don't want to get stuck in an internet backwater), it's a bit of a minefield.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Did you check on bidb too? Often a very helpful resource.

Lol. Apparently for NN136 (Brackley, South Northants) KCOM is in the 'Not Live' section. Good to know that they plan to cover us

In reply to a post by daern:

Only when in build, it seems, as it's mostly sourced from public works notifications. Once the network is in and stable, you'll see very little activity

But it does also show which networks have coverage for your property, or nearby to your property (network is "local"), regardless of build activity.

thinkbroadband.com has its own coverage checker which can give very good indication of altnets at the postcode level, if not at the individual property level. However the postcode search doesn't work well (at least, I couldn't see how to make it work). Instead you can go to the UK broadband map, zoom into your area, and then keep clicking checkboxes until to find networks which cover you. But there are a hundred or so boxes to click!

Thinkbroadband maps from the main home page may also help as they work hard to search for providers servicing postcodes and at least will help narrow down what is likely to be available.

Google is your friend!

In reply to a post by Andrue:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Did you check on bidb too? Often a very helpful resource.

Lol. Apparently for NN136 (Brackley, South Northants) KCOM is in the 'Not Live' section. Good to know that they plan to cover us

I think Marcus does more than alright, given the fact that it’s based on publicly available info. Never said it was universally perfect. It’s yet another data point., as I’m sure (hopefully) you’re well aware how challenging and difficult this is to get right.

As the saying goes your mileage may vary.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

But it does also show which networks have coverage for your property, or nearby to your property (network is "local"), regardless of build activity.

It does not, at least for me and my knowledge of the local area.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

thinkbroadband.com has its own coverage checker which can give very good indication of altnets at the postcode level, if not at the individual property level. However the postcode search doesn't work well (at least, I couldn't see how to make it work). Instead you can go to the UK broadband map, zoom into your area, and then keep clicking checkboxes until to find networks which cover you. But there are a hundred or so boxes to click!

Nothing listed here, but I appreciate that this is crowd-sourced data so it's down to what people have put into it.

My point was that there's no, official single place to go to (OFCOM would seem logical?) to actually discover who might be serving your property, which seems a pretty huge hole in the system. The whole system today seems to be based (as always) on the assumption that OR are doing everything, but clearly more and more people have access to non-OR options and, indeed, as with myself, their only option might be non-OR.

Edited by daern (Wed 18-Dec-24 09:17:51)

In reply to a post by daern:

Nothing listed here, but I appreciate that this is crowd-sourced data so it's down to what people have put into it.

I believe thinkbroadband uses the official availability checker APIs, although it may be augmented by speedtest results.

Interestingly, my property now shows on bidb.uk as having Virgin Media (even though it's not in our road; closest is about half a mile away). Going to Virgin's own availability checker web page, I see the same:

Great news!

Virgin Media is available at XXXX XXX

You can get top broadband speeds of up to M0.

It then gives an empty list of available packages. Perhaps I should phone them up and ask to buy the M0 package

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It then gives an empty list of available packages. Perhaps I should phone them up and ask to buy the M0 package

Maybe they are quoting you the actual service you'll receive from them during peak evening load?

In reply to a post by daern:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

It then gives an empty list of available packages. Perhaps I should phone them up and ask to buy the M0 package

Maybe they are quoting you the actual service you'll receive from them during peak evening load?