What to do when openreach abandons an entire area?

We got as far as being told that the build would start in July 24, then open reach walked away, its now not before 26, maybe not even after due to pole or re ducting required.

This isnt a few houses, or streets, its the entire area of town covering multiple roads across multiple cabinets.

My plan is to get the whole area formally switched in the government database to no service to be built, then get bduk involved and get a grant awarded, hopefully there are ways to accelerate the process based on openreach lying, as this could have been done years ago if they had told the truth.

Anyone got any better ideas?

You won't want to hear this but OpenReach didn't lie. They would have planned to do the area but subsequently would have discovered something that changed those plans. Nothing is ever guaranteed until it is delivered, up to that point it is a plan.

I am not sure you will be able to get BDUK involved in it but worth a try. In the end OpenReach have set targets based on coverage across the country and are doing well to meet those targets - that sometimes means abandoning more complex or costly builds to concentrate on areas that have a faster rate to hit the overall target.

You may find other operators could move in to provide service and fill the gaps but equally they may find similar issues to OpenReach.

Depending on what your current service is like then mobile broadband or satellite may be options in the meantime.

In reply to a post by phead:

We got as far as being told that the build would start in July 24, then open reach walked away, its now not before 26, maybe not even after due to pole or re ducting required.

This isnt a few houses, or streets, its the entire area of town covering multiple roads across multiple cabinets.

My plan is to get the whole area formally switched in the government database to no service to be built, then get bduk involved and get a grant awarded, hopefully there are ways to accelerate the process based on openreach lying, as this could have been done years ago if they had told the truth.

Anyone got any better ideas?

OR don't lie, but they may shift project dates around. Also check on this lovely page which will give you some indication of where your area stands https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/project-...

The main virgin trunk line is metres away, but they haven't expanded in years. One of the alt nets wired up the next village, less than 500 metres away, but they wont move without a grant. We get one bar of 3g, so no chance there, and starlink is showing red with frequent disconnections when tested on their app.

Meanwhile Im watching someone on TV in the middle of a forest with no water or sewage getting fibre fitted abroad, and here we are 30 minutes from central london with nothing!

In reply to a post by phead:

maybe not even after due to pole or re ducting required.

Keep an eye on the discussions in parliament about poles being installed in built up areas. Openreach or any Alt Net are stuck with the FTTP rollout if there are either no ducts at all, or the locals protest against poles.

We have two alt nets in my town, (Toob, and FW networks) and neither of them have been able to build in the late 1960s/early 1970s eatate the other side of the motorway as Openreach have no ducts, and the locals have complained about poles being installed. Other parts of town with existing poles (e.g. the 1910 to 1950's areas) or those where OR ducts exist, now have good choice of two alt nets and VM coax cable. (Unless you're in an MDU block of flats when everything stops).

I feel your pain. Virgin cabled my whole town *apart* from my estate because they apparently considered "the houses too far apart and the cost per residence too high". OR have also poked around, slung fibre on the existing poles for a few houses and declared the rest to be "not economical". We were lucky - an altnet decided our street was worth a go and cleared out the "not economical" ducts to get fibre through to us, but 2/3 of the estate is still sat in the large bucket of "not planned" and, I suspect, will be there for many years to come.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Openreach or any Alt Net are stuck with the FTTP rollout if there are either no ducts at all, or the locals protest against poles.

I'm kinda in two minds about this. Poles look like they'll be the only way that the uneconomical 2/3 of our estate will ever get fibre (current copper is all DIG, and OR seem very reluctant in general to break out the shovels), but there's already been significant rumblings about the impact of poles. I suspect, enough will complain such that they will never happen. Tough on those that live there and are stuck on copper for the long term.

That said, in the adjacent town, there are now OR, VM and two altnets, three of which are loading kit onto poles so that the whole situation has got a bit comical. Were I one of the houses that lived in the (admittedly rather pleasantly pole-free) part of the estate that had no fibre options, I think I'd also be rather concerned about the impact that poles will have in the long term, especially as, once they're there, there's pretty much nothing to stop them being loaded up like a naff telecoms-edition of Buckaroo.

Edited by daern (Mon 30-Dec-24 19:11:15)

We are actually surrounded by loads of amenity land they could stick poles in, hell I even own a few slices they could use!

In reply to a post by daern:

Tough on those that live there and are stuck on copper for the long term.

I assume at some point the Govt will broker an agreement with Virgin Media to sell access to VM ducts where available. That may help OR and Alt Nets in parts of my town, and other towns where n the 1990s older cable firms installed ducts where OR are DIG. But unless that happens, the “gigabit nation” is going to have to be via some 5G and with current growth rates, that can’t remain unlimited. (Look at the FUP’s on most of the mobile networks).

I think I'd also be rather concerned about the impact that poles will have in the long term, especially as, once they're there, there's pretty much nothing to stop them being loaded up like a naff telecoms-edition of Buckaroo.

Just one strong hurricane force wind; which we seem to get more of these days, and I can see lots of poles coming down loaded up like that.

In reply to a post by phead:

We are actually surrounded by loads of amenity land they could stick poles in, hell I even own a few slices they could use!

Good news; hopefully the relevant parts of OR or alt nets are aware.

In reply to a post by Taras:

In reply to a post by phead:

We got as far as being told that the build would start in July 24, then open reach walked away, its now not before 26, maybe not even after due to pole or re ducting required.

This isnt a few houses, or streets, its the entire area of town covering multiple roads across multiple cabinets.

My plan is to get the whole area formally switched in the government database to no service to be built, then get bduk involved and get a grant awarded, hopefully there are ways to accelerate the process based on openreach lying, as this could have been done years ago if they had told the truth.

Anyone got any better ideas?

OR don't lie, but they may shift project dates around. Also check on this lovely page which will give you some indication of where your area stands https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/project-...

What Does WHITE status mean for a post code area?

In reply to a post by Taras:

OR don't lie, but they may shift project dates around. Also check on this lovely page which will give you some indication of where your area stands https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/project-...

Are you sure they don't lie, how do you know they don't?
All companies lie

In reply to a post by jchamier:

Just one strong hurricane force wind; which we seem to get more of these days, and I can see lots of poles coming down loaded up like that.

How often do we have winds that strong? Maybe they have super strong in parts of Wales and Scotland, but most places don't get them strong enough to blow a pole down unless it is already weak, because it has been hit by some idiot who can't drive.

I have lived in this city for nearly 60 years and with all the high winds we have had, I have never seen a pole blown over. Fences, tramlines and parts of roofs flying around yes, but not poles. Okay, I live in an area where we don't get super strong winds, the valley we live in have something to do with that. A pole is also slim, so the wind don't have much to blow, it would need a hurricane.

But i suppose there is always a chance, but then there is a chance I could walk out of my house and get knocked over by a bus, even if there are no buses that come up my road, normally.


You can't stop building or doing things because of what if, as I am starting to realise.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

I assume at some point the Govt will broker an agreement with Virgin Media to sell access to VM ducts where available

That's a big assumption to make. I can see no benefit to VM themselves to offer this, and lots of downside, so why would they? Unless VM become large enough that they are regulated by OFCOM as a "significant market power" and forced to open up access - but they are structuring themselves to avoid this as much as possible.

Also, if VM were to introduce a PIA-style product, IMO the likely outcome would be reduced regulation on Openreach's PIA product, since it would no longer be the de-facto monopoly that it is today.

In reply to a post by zyborg47:

All companies lie

Thats a sweeping statement, If thats truly the case then the odds are you must lie also.

Good luck. Best advice I can give you is that persistence usually pays off.

It’s best to not go in like an attack dog though and accuse them of “lying”, even incidentally. Moving from one extremely old and established infrastructure to a brand new one, on a national scale, is a hugely complex and expensive major programme of works. They will inevitably reshuffle resources, on a constant and ongoing basis, to complete the 30 million odd premises. This will mean moving from areas that may just become too difficult and resource expensive in the short term to other places where they can pass more premises for the same resource outlay. They will at some point circle back when time, budget etc allows. It’s a commercial enterprise after all and they have to compete with Altnets, satisfy shareholders, and ultimately not go bust trying.

To some extent they are damned if they do (put places to dates) and damned if they don’t (communicate very vague dates).

Lots of trees and branches come down in high winds. Tree lands on overhead cable, either breaks cable or pulls poles down.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Lots of trees and branches come down in high winds. Tree lands on overhead cable, either breaks cable or pulls poles down.

Trees also come down in ways you don't expect them too.............

In reply to a post by candlerb:

That's a big assumption to make. I can see no benefit to VM themselves to offer this, and lots of downside, so why would they?

It is a full WAG

Unless VM become large enough that they are regulated by OFCOM as a "significant market power" and forced to open up access - but they are structuring themselves to avoid this as much as possible.

Interesting; I was thinking they would acquire enough competitors to do this.

Also, if VM were to introduce a PIA-style product, IMO the likely outcome would be reduced regulation on Openreach's PIA product, since it would no longer be the de-facto monopoly that it is today.

Maybe some govt (London, Cardiff, Edinburgh) will try and claim all road utilities have to be shared and arbitrated by the local authority. I can see chaos if that happens.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Lots of trees and branches come down in high winds. Tree lands on overhead cable, either breaks cable or pulls poles down.

They do indeed. We are in the windy part of East Anglia not far from the Suffolk coast, and can get ferrocious winds. Last winter we lost both fibre circuits as a large eucalyptus (planted many moons ago by a former owner) split halfway up the trunk and came down on the drop wires. Incredibly the EAD service continued to work, even whilst being pulled tighter than a piano string for a week. Eventually it gave way. Openreach were quick to replace both drops.

We replaced the roof earlier this month. Roofers have routed fibre and other cabling in through the cement edging on the verges, which looks neat but will be a bit of a [censored] to make good if another trees comes down again. Though I think we've lost the worst offenders now 🤣

If connectivity is important to you or your business, always have a good backup available.

If you still have a date they havent abandoned the area.

We replaced the roof earlier this month. Roofers have routed fibre and other cabling in through the cement edging on the verges, which looks neat but will be a bit of a [censored] to make good if another trees comes down again. Though I think we've lost the worst offenders now

Oh dear .. that ain’t good.

I dare say it’ll last flawlessly for decades.

Yeah roof should be good for another 60 years 😂

I dont have a date, quote:

“ This requires much more resources and is not possible in our current build here for commercial reasons.

There are many areas across the UK in a similar position, which is why we have announced that we intend to continue our build until at least 2030. We will be revisiting many areas like this after 2026 to review plans an look to extend full fibre to more properties. There are no confirmed plans as yet and this is unlikely to be the case until after 2026, however as more details are known they’ll be published on our website first.”

Aka before the heat death of the universe.

So we are on the list to the government saying they will build , but actually we arnt for commercial reasons. I still call this lying to stop altnets getting grants to build here

Do government builds appear on the commercial list and checker?

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

Do government builds appear on the commercial list and checker?

No

Just thought I would update this with what happened.

The MP took it on and openreach insisted they would be doing nothing, which their exec team that deals with MPs agreed with, the problem is that the BDUK grant had already given out the grant for the county, working on the info Openreach supplied, which was now out of date.

This left it in a position where BDUK could do nothing and Openreach would do nothing, this of course broke government policy where one of these had to happen.

I dont know what happened behind the scenes, but it looks like someone poked Openreach in the eye several times as all of a sudden despite multiple refusals by every level of their organisation they suddenly announced they were starting trenching and within a month the fibre was pulled in and I've ordered! Other streets now have dates for completion.

In reply to a post by phead:

Just thought I would update this with what happened.

The MP took it on and openreach insisted they would be doing nothing, which their exec team that deals with MPs agreed with, the problem is that the BDUK grant had already given out the grant for the county, working on the info Openreach supplied, which was now out of date.

This left it in a position where BDUK could do nothing and Openreach would do nothing, this of course broke government policy where one of these had to happen.

it hasn't broken anything. If the situation hadn't changed after 3 years it would be added a secondary pot of money later on. That is why project gigabit was a multi year and multiple contract endeavour.

also

In reply to a post by phead:

We got as far as being told that the build would start in July 24, then open reach walked away, its now not before 26, maybe not even after due to pole or re ducting required.

so your build got pushed back and forward by quarter and a bit ..... Sadly rather normal for OR. Remember they work in Quarters, so one quarter build from design to completion is mega fast for them. If you rescale to quarters the delay looks tiny - how ever frustrating for the user

In reply to a post by phead:

I dont know what happened behind the scenes, but it looks like someone poked Openreach in the eye several times as all of a sudden despite multiple refusals by every level of their organisation they suddenly announced they were starting trenching and within a month the fibre was pulled in and I've ordered! Other streets now have dates for completion.

No eyes where hurt. There are many reasons why builds change date. Ours got changed multiple times over a six year period - one of the delays caused work in the new forest to be paused. Also pots of money inside of OR changes. Design changes can lower costs, thus bringing back areas back into scope. Demand too can alter projections.

Edited by Taras (Thu 18-Sep-25 11:14:17)

An altnet sniffing around the area can also cause Openreach to reassess the situation very quickly

This wasnt a date change. It was confirmed to me as not commercially viable, was confirmed to the MP as not commercially viable multiple times by all levels of openreach, and shows on the OMR map as yellow.

There is a more general issue of OR charging their mind on what they will build leaving BDUK stuck. Ive spoke to them, they are [censored] as they cannot alter existing contracts awarded, and dont want to keep having to go back awarding small contracts all over the place to clean up ORs mess.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

An altnet sniffing around the area can also cause Openreach to reassess the situation very quickly

very much so - free clean ducts (so wanted to put ducks) and also if theres a big take up

In reply to a post by phead:

This wasnt a date change. It was confirmed to me as not commercially viable, was confirmed to the MP as not commercially viable multiple times by all levels of openreach, and shows on the OMR map as yellow.

which is not set in stone. Also going from yellow to blue to green (using tbb colours) is a date change. Further what i said is closer to the truth than what you are implying.

Every property in England (leaving out wales, ni and scotland for simplicity) has mappend and into 20 bands (predicated with f - i don't know if f1 is the cheapest and f20 is the most expensive - or vice versa - it doesn't matter )

for example
for simplicity again - f1 is the cheapest and f20 is the most expensive to push fibre to.


say property a6 was f16. and was earmarked for completion on q4 '24 - the pot of money for f14-f16 properties was there waiting. They then do on field testing, they realised theres issues that didn't show up on maps and other already held data. They then push it back needing more money so property is put into f17 and is pushed back .

but conversly an f16 property can be pushed into a f12 pricing band by potentially new methods or equipment. Subtended olt in cabinets was one of them (sorry candlerb and Iniltous for the bad equipment wording), the use of drones was another were it brought a £100k+ install down. The use of micro cbts etc brought fibre to new areas. Also the new products for MDUs, reducing the space needed changes the f band rating.

In reply to a post by phead:

There is a more general issue of OR charging their mind on what they will build leaving BDUK stuck.

Project gigabit was set up as a continuous process till the money was exhausted. The old BDUK/local councils approach was a one off typically (hampshire did 2 and bit waves and then ran out of money). Its not really a case of changing their mind.

In reply to a post by phead:

Ive spoke to them, they are [censored] as they cannot alter existing contracts awarded, and dont want to keep having to go back awarding small contracts all over the place to clean up ORs mess.

so you spoke to project gigabit/bduk?

They have typically changed contracts where they have removed premises and will go into new contracts. I understand your frustration but it really isn't "OR's mess" it just doesn't work like that.

Also "type c contracts" is for hard to reach premisies where properties in lots were removed because the contractor said no.

And honestly swearing really doesn't help. I understand how frustrating it was.

OR are in a way are on your side, because they want your custom. Same for Alt nets...

but customer services sometimes lets them down (sometimes badly)