Multiple Fibre Networks in an Area

Having not had any fibre options available until the last year or two, Better Internet Dashboard now suggests that there are three networks available where I live in Retford: Openreach, Virgin Media and Full Fibre (Fibre Heroes). The checkers on the various ISP sites confirm this. Previously we only had ADSL and VDSL in this area, and no Virgin Media HFC service has ever been available.

It seems that Openreach ducts and poles are usually used for all providers, but does the presence of three networks in the area mean that there are three separate optical networks available? Separate OLT’s, separate splitters etc? I presume this is the case?

How much does the architecture of each of these networks vary? I know Openreach use GPON whereas the other two are XGS-PON. Virgin seem to have cabinets in the street, and I think Full Fibre do too? Do Openreach always use exchanges for FTTP instead of cabinets?

Is there anywhere in the UK that has more than three networks in an area? I’d imagine it’s normally avoided due to costs and I know some ISPs work with multiple operators, eg Full Fibre, City Fibre and Gigaclear. But is there anywhere where four or even five operators (or more) have installed their own network in an area?
 

Alternative networks will utilise the duct and pole infrastructure rental program from Openreach called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) to lay their fibre networks past your premises - where it makes economic sense for them to do - otherwise some will dig and duct their own (sometimes just direct bury microducts) or possibly use their own poles in some places too. Not always popular.

The networks themselves are however totally separate / discrete. So as you say from a customer perspective this means a separate drop cable, termination point externally and a separate ONT for each network.

Of the main fibre networks, it’s really Openreach and CityFibre that operate “wholesale” networks that you can buy services from independent ISP that run over them. There are some others but they are typically much smaller regional Altnets with limited number of ISPs they host on their networks. Nexfibre is Virgin Media’s parent company (Liberty Global) and InfraVia Capital Partners JV, XGS-PON based wholesale network, but they only really carry Virgin Media at this point in time.

Prior to the fibre Altnets appearing several years ago it really was just BT and Virgin Media cable for most folks. Now it’s not uncommon to have both of them and perhaps an Altnet or two serving the same area.

Edited by Pheasant (Sun 12-Jan-25 23:51:52)

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

Do Openreach always use exchanges for FTTP instead of cabinets?

Almost always. In most cases the fibre runs straight to the OHP (Openreach Handover Point), a.k.a. headend exchange, with no cabinets involved. However occasionally OR deploy "subtended headends" which are small OLTs located in a street cabinet. This can be done for various reasons including length of the optical path, and limited number of spine fibres available.

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

But is there anywhere where four or even five operators (or more) have installed their own network in an area?
 

Yes. In May 2024, Thinkbroadband found about 5,000 properties with access to 5 different FTTP networks, and 35,000 with 4 networks:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9949-uk-reaches-...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/11/braint...

Other figures suggest nearly 7 million properties had 2 or more, and nearly a million had 3 or more:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/09/70-per...

“How much does the architecture of each of these networks vary? I know Openreach use GPON whereas the other two are XGS-PON. Virgin seem to have cabinets in the street, and I think Full Fibre do too? Do Openreach always use exchanges for FTTP instead of cabinets?”

I didn’t really address this point. Architecturally broadband fibre networks like these fall into two camps; PON and point-to-point.

A Passive Optical Network architecture, has a tree and branch style layout. It uses a single active optical port at the origin (at the OLT) and then through a series of passive optical splitters can distribute this up to 256 subscribers. The medium is effectively shared so there is the theoretical possibility of contention on the subscriber loop, but in reality, statistically, it’s rarely a problem. Though typically networks in the UK like Openreach distribute it to around 30 subscribers, with 2 spare per “PON”. The active equipment at each end determines the speed, hence GPON or XGS-PON. Both of these technologies can coexist on the same fibre network as they use different wavelengths of light. PON generally runs to a head end OLT which can typically be up to around 30km from subscribers, but may in some cases run a lot further than that. Openreach will serve from around 1000 exchanges called Handover or Head End exchanges in their network. Other Altnets will run from street cabinets or their own purpose built mini-exchange affairs (like CityFibre).

Point-to-point networks, of which there are far fewer than a dozen operators in the UK. The most notable are Gigaclear, Grain Connect, B4RN & B4SH, TruSpeed, VX Fiber and WightFibre. P2P network use a dedicated fibre from the distribution point to the subscriber. Typically some form of Ethernet. They do not share the medium like PON, but the upstream connection from the distribution node will still be contended.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Alternative networks will utilise the duct and pole infrastructure rental program from Openreach called PIA (Physical Infrastructure Access) to lay their fibre networks past your premises - where it makes economic sense for them to do - otherwise some will dig and duct their own (sometimes just direct bury microducts) or possibly use their own poles in some places too. Not always popular.

The networks themselves are however totally separate / discrete. So as you say from a customer perspective this means a separate drop cable, termination point externally and a separate ONT for each network.

Of the main fibre networks, it’s really Openreach and CityFibre that operate “wholesale” networks that you can buy services from independent ISP that run over them. There are some others but they are typically much smaller regional Altnets with limited number of ISPs they host on their networks. Nexfibre is Virgin Media’s parent company (Liberty Global) and InfraVia Capital Partners JV, XGS-PON based wholesale network, but they only really carry Virgin Media at this point in time.

Prior to the fibre Altnets appearing several years ago it really was just BT and Virgin Media cable for most folks. Now it’s not uncommon to have both of them and perhaps an Altnet or two serving the same area.

I thought this was the case. There's been a rapid build of new fibre networks as I'm sure about four years ago the most we had was FTTC here and now there's three networks to choose from!

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Almost always. In most cases the fibre runs straight to the OHP (Openreach Handover Point), a.k.a. headend exchange, with no cabinets involved. However occasionally OR deploy "subtended headends" which are small OLTs located in a street cabinet. This can be done for various reasons including length of the optical path, and limited number of spine fibres available.

It's interesting how different networks use slightly different methods even though they are PON. Fibre Heroes use cabinets for the OLT I believe but their splitters seem to be underground. Virgin Media have installed a power feeder and OLT cabinet nearby to where I live as well as a number of smaller cabinets that I believe contain splitters, so they use an above ground approach. Looking at various YouTube videos, even installation methods differ - Fibre Heroes and Openreach splice, Virgin Media have fibres with pre made connectors, as do some other Altnets (I saw a video of Wildanet showing this). Then Virgin Media have gone down the route of having the fibre plug into the router whereas most use ONT's. So much variation but they are all PON's.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Yes. In May 2024, Thinkbroadband found about 5,000 properties with access to 5 different FTTP networks, and 35,000 with 4 networks:

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/9949-uk-reaches-...

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2023/11/braint...

Other figures suggest nearly 7 million properties had 2 or more, and nearly a million had 3 or more:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2024/09/70-per...

I'm surprised so many companies have decided it's worth while to install their network, even if the overlaps are fairly small, given the costs and limited number of customers. It is going to be interesting in five to ten years time as prices fluctuate and customers swap between providers only to have to have yet another fibre connection installed. The exterior walls will be littered with CSP's, the interior with ONT's and the poles will look interesting!

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Point-to-point networks, of which there are far fewer than a dozen operators in the UK. The most notable are Gigaclear, Grain Connect, B4RN & B4SH, TruSpeed, VX Fiber and WightFibre. P2P network use a dedicated fibre from the distribution point to the subscriber. Typically some form of Ethernet. They do not share the medium like PON, but the upstream connection from the distribution node will still be contended.

I didn't realise that some ISP's use point-point networks like this, I thought all residential ISP's were PON and point-to-point is only used on more expensive business services for uncontended bandwidth. It must push the price of install up a lot.

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Point-to-point networks, of which there are far fewer than a dozen operators in the UK. The most notable are Gigaclear, Grain Connect, B4RN & B4SH, TruSpeed, VX Fiber and WightFibre. P2P network use a dedicated fibre from the distribution point to the subscriber. Typically some form of Ethernet. They do not share the medium like PON, but the upstream connection from the distribution node will still be contended.

I didn't realise that some ISP's use point-point networks like this, I thought all residential ISP's were PON and point-to-point is only used on more expensive business services for uncontended bandwidth. It must push the price of install up a lot.

Not necessarily. There may be a bit more fibre in the ground, but not overwhelmingly so, depending on how the Altnet decides to architect it.

For example. A P-2-P architecture can be designed like a distributed star network. A central switch, feeding other branch or distribution switches interconnected by a spine fibre. This is pretty much how commercial 'office' LANs have been built for many decades. Just on a metropolitan scale.

The hardware for P-2-P is pretty much off the shelf ethernet switches, so although the subscriber port count is higher, ethernet optics are dirt cheap these days.

Exchange scale OLTs aren't exactly cheap affairs. A smaller Altnet, may decide they can get better bang for the buck and use staff with backgrounds in generally commercially available product (ethernet) if they for arguments sake don't have to serve 100,000 premises from their central kit.

Well, it is not going to be too expensive to upgrade from GPON to XGS-PON. Openreach have announced last year that this year in April 2025 they will upgrade their GPON to XGS-PON and finally Openreach FTTP packages will be symmetrical. https://www.openreach.com/news/openreach-launch-firs...

The real cost here is the fact that in all 3 of your Fibre Networks, they are wholesale! That has a bigger implication for the price packages since ISPs have to pay to the network providers and the cost goes up.

If however, you had an Altnet provider like Community Fibre, Hyperoptic, Gigaclear, etc that doesn't share wholesale network then naturally those packages are much cheaper since those ISPs can offer you an exclusive deal and they operate under their own network. They also can maintain you as a monopoly. Community Fibre is £25 a month for 900+Mbps, Gigaclear £34 and Hyperoptic £35 a month. Their intention is to capture you as a customer! That's why every week or so I am getting leaflets here through my door with Community Fibre. A few months ago a door sales representative came to my door to offer me 3 months free. You don't get that with the wholesale providers.

Many other places have multiple networks. My dad has a friend who has Community Fibre, Hyperoptic, Openreach FTTP and Virgin Media (cable).
Then there are other people who don't have a single FTTP network at all and some don't even yet have FTTC in Central London! But you'll see that despite FTTP being superior to FTTC, you don't see that the FTTC packages are any cheaper.

With FTTC you get worse value for money unless you are on social tariff. But in ratio you get a far better service on FTTP for a similar price. Even I'd say that while I may be paying £20 for 80/20 Mbps BT FTTC even that is expensive for its quality! I'm happy of-course that the service is stable. But I know I can get a better service with any Altnet. When you consider that for the same price you can get 300-500Mbps symmetrical.

Unfortunately, broadband packages are not like computer hardware components. You don't often pay for a better service. In fact, quite the opposite, many providers especially on old ADSL and even some FTTC packages give you worse router quality and more expensive service.

Now most ISPs have retired ADSL packages but few still offer such services. BT still offer ADSL for non FTTC available areas and that's £30 a month, for me that's unacceptable! For many years until 2020 I paid more for an inferior service. Sky and Plusnet handing out worse quality routers for ADSL vs FTTC. Yet I paid £32.74 a month for connections that continuously were dropping out. Even then I was aware that I was receiving a worse quality router compared to FTTC customers, that's not very fair when I was paying for a more expensive service.

Considering the standard of a service FTTP provides, ADSL should not cost more than £5-10 a month and FTTC 80/20 or 40/10 should be only modestly higher than that. But yet FTTP happens to be often cheaper in ratio to the quality you get! And also, symmetrical FTTP packages that are cheaper than the current asymmetrical packages on Openreach, Virgin Media, G.Network, etc.

There are places with more operators available. Often, the MDU (Multi Dwelling Units) tend to have more overbuilds as they are cheaper to upgrade to individual houses. Rural areas tend to be more expensive to upgrade. But at the same time I've seen in Central London and City of London residential buildings like The Heron Tower in Barbican have only 1 FTTP provider (Hyperoptic) and no FTTC! They are paying excruciating service charges and not getting enough for what they pay.

In reply to a post by BLaZiNgSPEED:

Well, it is not going to be too expensive to upgrade from GPON to XGS-PON. Openreach have announced last year that this year in April 2025 they will upgrade their GPON to XGS-PON and finally Openreach FTTP packages will be symmetrical. https://www.openreach.com/news/openreach-launch-firs...

They will still be running their 1Gbps symmetric service on existing GPON gear. They’re aren’t upgrading to XGS-PON for this exercise.

Exactly. All they said about XGS-PON is that they will start talking to their customers about what their future requirements might be.

They also only said that the symmetric will be in some new project gigabit areas in order to gauge demand. This is looking like a relatively small trial of symmetric so they can get some understanding of what customers are willing to pay for. My guess is it will be a while before that gets a national launch and possibly even longer before XGS-PON has much footprint in the network.

Article over at ISPreview (and subsequent updates) about it, indicated it would be a full commercial release rather than a limited trial…

Guess we’ll find out come April

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Exactly. All they said about XGS-PON is that they will start talking to their customers about what their future requirements might be.

From that article, it seems discussions are already happening. I suspect we may see 1gbits down/up nationally this year but given how many isps have launched a 1.2gbits or 1.8gbits product the average use may have wait a while.

OR may be upgrading the customers incrementally in terms of speed so that they can adjust a good way

Arguably 1G symmetric on Openreach GPON would be simpler to achieve from an ISP perspective than supporting 1.6/1.8Gbps asymmetric.

From an Openreach perspective it’s nothing more then pushing another speed profile onto their OLT estate. They don’t need to change anything. It’s just a soft change. Therefore they could “roll it out” nationally next week if they wanted…

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Arguably 1G symmetric on Openreach GPON would be simpler to achieve from an ISP perspective than supporting 1.6/1.8Gbps asymmetric.

completely agree.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

From an Openreach perspective it’s nothing more then pushing another speed profile onto their OLT estate. They don’t need to change anything. It’s just a soft change. Therefore they could “roll it out” nationally next week if they wanted…

Yup, they are more worried about how it will impact upload speeds, which i think they have enough data to have made a good business case on implementing it.

Yes they are just incredibly risk averse, even though their own data supports the conclusion that this isn’t an “issue” just like it hasn’t been for CityFibre amongst others that run 1G symmetric over GPON for years.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yes they are just incredibly risk averse, even though their own data supports the conclusion that this isn’t an “issue” just like it hasn’t been for CityFibre amongst others that run 1G symmetric over GPON for years.

they have dynamic throttling on the download as it is, and mostly its fine and i really can't see more then 2 users on a 30 user pon having 1Gbit symmetrical. Only heard of a video guy who ended up having the pon split into two. Spliting a pon into two isn't that expensive (as long you have spare fibre) to do.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yes they are just incredibly risk averse, even though their own data supports the conclusion that this isn’t an “issue” just like it hasn’t been for CityFibre amongst others that run 1G symmetric over GPON for years.

even going to xgs-pon shouldn't be an issue in terms of cpe install. Its a shame theres no combined gpon/xgs-pon ont, as you could move users dynamically between the two depending on bandwidth needs .

In reply to a post by Taras:

Its a shame theres no combined gpon/xgs-pon ont, as you could move users dynamically between the two depending on bandwidth needs .

That wouldn't make sense. If you sent someone an XGS-PON capable ONT, then just put them on the XGS-PON network. You can sell slow services over XGS-PON too...

Would be very expensive too. You'd need separate DFB lasers & receivers for all wavelengths and a WDM on the front end.

Cheaper to go with one or the other. Most of them are a few quid in bulk.

I would like to see self-service ONT swaps become a thing - you get a text message with a link to a webpage that can access your phone camera, scan the barcode of the old ONT to verify you have the correct service, scan the new box, then return the old one with a prepaid label. Maybe include a single-use fibre cleaner as well to wipe the connector across during the swap.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Would be very expensive too. You'd need separate DFB lasers & receivers for all wavelengths and a WDM on the front end.

Cheaper to go with one or the other. Most of them are a few quid in bulk.

So, basically very messy!

I'd go with unnecessarily complex (and expensive) 😅

In reply to a post by jpm:

I would like to see self-service ONT swaps become a thing - you get a text message with a link to a webpage that can access your phone camera, scan the barcode of the old ONT to verify you have the correct service, scan the new box, then return the old one with a prepaid label.

we are only going to see xgs pon and 25gbit pon in the next 10 to 20 years. so whilst a good idea and i like it, i don't think the savings will be that great.

In reply to a post by jpm:

Maybe include a single-use fibre cleaner as well to wipe the connector across during the swap.

probably multi use, and also what if they broke the cable!!!!!!!!! 😂

In reply to a post by Taras:

they have dynamic throttling on the download as it is, and mostly its fine and i really can't see more then 2 users on a 30 user pon having 1Gbit symmetrical. Only heard of a video guy who ended up having the pon split into two. Spliting a pon into two isn't that expensive (as long you have spare fibre) to do.

How do you split a PON in two? I guess you would need a spare fibre to feed into a second splitter, and then put 16 prems on each? That would cause service disruption to some of the prems while the switchover occured?

In reply to a post by Taras:

even going to xgs-pon shouldn't be an issue in terms of cpe install. Its a shame theres no combined gpon/xgs-pon ont, as you could move users dynamically between the two depending on bandwidth needs .

On that note how does a GPON service get upgraded to XGS-PON without long outages as presumably the OLT line cards all need changing out? The customer's ONT can stay as you can have GPON and XGS-PON running at the same time but if the line cards only had GPON originally, there must be disruption for a few hours to swap it over?

In reply to a post by jpm:

I would like to see self-service ONT swaps become a thing - you get a text message with a link to a webpage that can access your phone camera, scan the barcode of the old ONT to verify you have the correct service, scan the new box, then return the old one with a prepaid label. Maybe include a single-use fibre cleaner as well to wipe the connector across during the swap.

Doesn't that risk the customer damaging the fibre cable during the swap? What about the risk of them looking down the fibre and the laser shining at their eyes?

Correct. AT the splitter, you'd effectively move the CBT tails from one PON (hence OLT port) to another PON (different OLT port).

Openreach include a passive WDM (wavelength division multiplexer) at the head, so that another feed can be supplied into the PON. As GPON and XGS-PON use different wavelengths they can both co-exist on the same PON / same glass, without service disruption or interruption.

As long as no one touches the end fibre faces (ferrules) then there is little to no contamination risk. If you do then fibre cleaner as said. Fibre is pretty tough really. At the end of the day it either works or it doesn't.

The DFB type lasers used in PON equipment are purposely eye-safe lasers. Still probably not a good idea to go looking down a live PON fibre if you can help it.

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

How do you split a PON in two? I guess you would need a spare fibre to feed into a second splitter, and then put 16 prems on each? That would cause service disruption to some of the prems while the switchover occured?

Or if you have one or two bandwidth hogs spoiling the service for everyone else, you move *their* line(s) onto another PON, in which case they're the only ones who are disrupted.

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

In reply to a post by Taras:

even going to xgs-pon shouldn't be an issue in terms of cpe install. Its a shame theres no combined gpon/xgs-pon ont, as you could move users dynamically between the two depending on bandwidth needs .

On that note how does a GPON service get upgraded to XGS-PON without long outages as presumably the OLT line cards all need changing out? The customer's ONT can stay as you can have GPON and XGS-PON running at the same time but if the line cards only had GPON originally, there must be disruption for a few hours to swap it over?

Thats assuming the olt isn't ready for xgs-pon now. Also why would it be a long outage ?

In reply to a post by ryan125_hst:

Doesn't that risk the customer damaging the fibre cable during the swap? What about the risk of them looking down the fibre and the laser shining at their eyes?

People already damage the fibre when they rip the ONT off the wall by pushing a vacuum cleaner into it. It you give the choice of swapping the ONT yourself to let you upgrade in 2-3 days vs. having to wait 14 days for an engineer appointment and take time off work then people who feel comfortable plugging the fibre in themselves will be able to go with that option.

In reply to a post by jpm:

people who feel comfortable plugging the fibre in themselves

to the average person a fibre SC type connector will feel like any other computer or smart phone connection, just one they've not seen before. Self install is now common for Virgin Media coax where the connection point was known to have been recently in use (ie, latest lightning supression etc).

LC for VM currently. Bucking trend 😂

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

LC for VM currently. Bucking trend 😂

Ahh, the smaller version; probably what I used last on SAN kit, when I last went to our data centre.

LC of the duplex varietal is pretty common on LAN kit and adapters too. Just blue rather than green as here.