Openreach skipped MDUs when they deployed on our street :(

Hello,

Openreach has completed laying fibre along our long street and done the splicing etc. I have just checked the postcodes of almost every home (SDU) along ours and the adjecent streets, and they are all able to apply for FTTP broadband now.

However, when Openreach was contacted to ask if they would like the Wayleave to deploy to our block of flats (MDU), they said they our development is a block of flats and they aren't looking at deploying right now.

What does this mean for us then? What would trigger them to deploy to the blocks of flats along these streets and will it happen soon?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as always. Thanks in advance.

Edited by squarecrumpets (Tue 25-Mar-25 09:55:22)

MDUs are complex and expensive, compared to single dwellings. It basically boils down to that.

That’s why Openreach will do the easy, fast street-based deployments first / in preference. It simply gives them more return on investment and less hassle when faced with cabling up 30 odd million premises. That’s the nub I’m afraid.

Getting the freeholder / land owner onboard and fully agreed wayleaves in place would be the first thing to get in place.

Good luck 🤞

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

MDUs are complex and expensive, compared to single dwellings. It basically boils down to that.

That’s why Openreach will do the easy, fast street-based deployments first / in preference. It simply gives them more return on investment and less hassle when faced with cabling up 30 odd million premises. That’s the nub I’m afraid.

Getting the freeholder / land owner onboard and fully agreed wayleaves in place would be the first thing to get in place.

Good luck 🤞

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Hi, it was a silly typo. Of course I meant FTTH edited the original post.

The thing is, the freeholder tried to give them the wayleave but they weren't even interested at the moment.

Yeah of course there is a huge upfront cost difference. For SDUs they don't have to do anything until the subscriber(s) come on board. For MDUs they need to deploy the cable into the communal areas and install the splitter hub ahead of time. Having said that, I expected our government to include this cost as part of nationwide fibre deployment.

They're creating a chicken and egg situation because they haven't got any subscribers within the MDUs because it isn't available in the first place.

Edited by squarecrumpets (Tue 25-Mar-25 10:01:32)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Unless you live in a picturesque hamlet, and you have Fibre To The Cottage

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Unless you live in a picturesque hamlet, and you have Fibre To The Cottage

But in that case, the "fibre" is probably wet string

In reply to a post by billford:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

Unless you live in a picturesque hamlet, and you have Fibre To The Cottage

But in that case, the "fibre" is probably wet string

Or wool & still attached to the sheep

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Unless you live in a picturesque hamlet, and you have Fibre To The Cottage

Grandiose: Fibre To The Castle in Scotland (or anywhere that someone considers their pad a castle) perhaps 🤣

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

MDUs are complex and expensive, compared to single dwellings. It basically boils down to that.

That’s why Openreach will do the easy, fast street-based deployments first / in preference. It simply gives them more return on investment and less hassle when faced with cabling up 30 odd million premises. That’s the nub I’m afraid.

Getting the freeholder / land owner onboard and fully agreed wayleaves in place would be the first thing to get in place.

Good luck 🤞

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Hi, it was a silly typo. Of course I meant FTTH edited the original post.

The thing is, the freeholder tried to give them the wayleave but they weren't even interested at the moment.

Yeah of course there is a huge upfront cost difference. For SDUs they don't have to do anything until the subscriber(s) come on board. For MDUs they need to deploy the cable into the communal areas and install the splitter hub ahead of time. Having said that, I expected our government to include this cost as part of nationwide fibre deployment.

They're creating a chicken and egg situation because they haven't got any subscribers within the MDUs because it isn't available in the first place.

Costs more to run in MDUs. Much, much harder to get permission / wayleaves agreed. The government (past and present) has been trying with changes to legislation to force unresponsive freeholders and lacklustre managing agents etc to the table - but so far of limited success.

It would be politically difficult (as well as economically in the current climate) for them to subsidise installation costs here - especially when there are competitive market pressures from other Alt Net providers etc. and there are competing pressures for rural deployments which also cost an arm and a leg.

It's not as simple or easy as you think it may be. Which is why we are where we are with MDUs

One of the reasons MDU’s are excluded from an area where the SDU’s are available to order FTTP is MDU’s are a different department within FND (Fibre Network Delivery) , the survey and build teams are different…..the SDU survey / build takes into account the potential demand of any MDU within its boundaries, so if a PON area had small /medium MDU with its boundary, that potential demand is included in the dimensioning (size) of the PON , and sufficient capacity is provided including the MDU , but that’s it , the FTTP network is effectively left outside the MDU ready for the MDU survey & build team to use , there isn’t necessarily any immediate follow up after the SDU build is completed, MDU teams they work within their own timeframes etc.

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=...

Edited by Iniltous (Tue 25-Mar-25 13:10:23)

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Unless you live in a picturesque hamlet, and you have Fibre To The Cottage

or have my naming 😂

Exchange fibre - adsl
cabinet fibre - vdsl2
home full fibre - fttp

Fibre To The Catacombs if you are in the dead centre of town.

Don't forget Fibre to the Crypt, Fibre to the Crematorium and Fibre to the Cemetery - we can't all afford the posh catacombs option.

Edit : I am really sorry but I have to add Fibre to the Commode - for those with a bad connection (would have liked to have said something other than bad but the options are censored!).

Edited by ian72 (Tue 25-Mar-25 15:27:50)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Grandiose: Fibre To The Castle in Scotland (or anywhere that someone considers their pad a castle) perhaps 🤣

Lets hope your comment doesn't offend those who are desperate to be offended 🤣

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

One of the reasons MDU’s are excluded from an area where the SDU’s are available to order FTTP is MDU’s are a different department within FND (Fibre Network Delivery) , the survey and build teams are different…..the SDU survey / build takes into account the potential demand of any MDU within its boundaries, so if a PON area had small /medium MDU with its boundary, that potential demand is included in the dimensioning (size) of the PON , and sufficient capacity is provided including the MDU , but that’s it , the FTTP network is effectively left outside the MDU ready for the MDU survey & build team to use , there isn’t necessarily any immediate follow up after the SDU build is completed, MDU teams they work within their own timeframes etc.

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=...

Thank you for this clear explanation. This makes a lot of sense now. Thanks for the link to the form. We are aware of this form but the freeholder has direct contact with Openreach and have told them to get in touch whenever they want the wayleave.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

MDUs are complex and expensive, compared to single dwellings. It basically boils down to that.

That’s why Openreach will do the easy, fast street-based deployments first / in preference. It simply gives them more return on investment and less hassle when faced with cabling up 30 odd million premises. That’s the nub I’m afraid.

Getting the freeholder / land owner onboard and fully agreed wayleaves in place would be the first thing to get in place.

Good luck 🤞

(By the way it’s FTTP rather then FTTC, the latter is still copper from the cabinet to the premises)

Hi, it was a silly typo. Of course I meant FTTH edited the original post.

The thing is, the freeholder tried to give them the wayleave but they weren't even interested at the moment.

Yeah of course there is a huge upfront cost difference. For SDUs they don't have to do anything until the subscriber(s) come on board. For MDUs they need to deploy the cable into the communal areas and install the splitter hub ahead of time. Having said that, I expected our government to include this cost as part of nationwide fibre deployment.

They're creating a chicken and egg situation because they haven't got any subscribers within the MDUs because it isn't available in the first place.

Costs more to run in MDUs. Much, much harder to get permission / wayleaves agreed. The government (past and present) has been trying with changes to legislation to force unresponsive freeholders and lacklustre managing agents etc to the table - but so far of limited success.

It would be politically difficult (as well as economically in the current climate) for them to subsidise installation costs here - especially when there are competitive market pressures from other Alt Net providers etc. and there are competing pressures for rural deployments which also cost an arm and a leg.

It's not as simple or easy as you think it may be. Which is why we are where we are with MDUs

Yeah but as I've mentioned we want to give them the wayleave now but they don't even want it yet. Ohh well, I guess we'll just have to wait for now.

In reply to a post by ian72:

Don't forget Fibre to the Crypt, Fibre to the Crematorium and Fibre to the Cemetery - we can't all afford the posh catacombs option.

Back in the late 80’s the company I worked for refurbished a section of the catacombs at Brompton cemetery (this bit had been hit by a bomb during the war) . Rather than coffin sized slates as were there, you could have a small cubby hole, big enough to put a container with your ashes . Reasonably priced too I seem to remember thinking.

I had visions of the catacombs in Rome as seen in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

In reply to a post by ian72:

I am really sorry but I have to add Fibre to the Commode

https://archive.google/tisp/

Brings a whole new perspective on flushing the cache

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

Yeah but as I've mentioned we want to give them the wayleave now but they don't even want it yet. Ohh well, I guess we'll just have to wait for now.

Fingers crossed it all makes its way through the sausage machine, and they assign resource in due time.

Probably worth chasing them if nothing happens in the next 6 months. Welcome to FTTP-esque timescales for an expectation set.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

One of the reasons MDU’s are excluded from an area where the SDU’s are available to order FTTP is MDU’s are a different department within FND (Fibre Network Delivery) , the survey and build teams are different…..the SDU survey / build takes into account the potential demand of any MDU within its boundaries, so if a PON area had small /medium MDU with its boundary, that potential demand is included in the dimensioning (size) of the PON , and sufficient capacity is provided including the MDU , but that’s it , the FTTP network is effectively left outside the MDU ready for the MDU survey & build team to use , there isn’t necessarily any immediate follow up after the SDU build is completed, MDU teams they work within their own timeframes etc.

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=...

For small to medium MDUs (thinking low rise flats etc) that makes sense, and what I understood them to do in terms of dimensioning and capacity planning the network.

What about areas where there are larger numbers of multi-storey / high rise MDUs - I'm thinking of places like inner London where there could be several high rises within a precint. Does the capacity and network planning get done by the survey teams working for the MDU team or more broadly does this fall within FND?

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

One of the reasons MDU’s are excluded from an area where the SDU’s are available to order FTTP is MDU’s are a different department within FND (Fibre Network Delivery) , the survey and build teams are different…..the SDU survey / build takes into account the potential demand of any MDU within its boundaries, so if a PON area had small /medium MDU with its boundary, that potential demand is included in the dimensioning (size) of the PON , and sufficient capacity is provided including the MDU , but that’s it , the FTTP network is effectively left outside the MDU ready for the MDU survey & build team to use , there isn’t necessarily any immediate follow up after the SDU build is completed, MDU teams they work within their own timeframes etc.

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=...

For small to medium MDUs (thinking low rise flats etc) that makes sense, and what I understood them to do in terms of dimensioning and capacity planning the network.

What about areas where there are larger numbers of multi-storey / high rise MDUs - I'm thinking of places like inner London where there could be several high rises within a precint. Does the capacity and network planning get done by the survey teams working for the MDU team or more broadly does this fall within FND?

I’ve no personal knowledge on large MDU ,they were never a part of my remit , but I suspect they are specifically excluded from day to day survey activities , so unlike smaller /medium MDU that are part of the geographical area an ordinary PON covers even if it’s only to ensure the PON dimensions cater for those addresses , in effect a single large MDU is its own PON area , still using splitters, but not underground joints , a cable direct from the aggregation node into a ‘basement box’ arrangement, providing services exclusively for that large MDU, but that’s just my educated guess , I could be way off

Edited by Iniltous (Thu 27-Mar-25 15:36:43)