FTTPod prohibitively expensive, a leased line is cheaper!

Back in 2019 we had FTTPod installed at our offices in the Kentish countryside, and it has been fantastic, particularly during the covid lockdown periods when it allowed our staff to work from home much more efficiently. It cost £9K and the company next-door and ourselves both qualified for £3k government vouchers, so we ended up paying 1.5k each, Cerberus Internet handled the joint FTTPod order and we are still with them 6 years later which says a lot about their reliability . 3 other houses have since been connected to the same CBT we paid to have installed, which makes it even more worthwhile.

I have been patiently waiting for FTTP to become available at home on the outskirts of Tunbridge Wells, the Openreach availability tracker pushed the dates out and out and now just says 'Not yet available', with no sign we will get it any time soon and no way to ask.

Being virtually the only area in TW that has no 'gigabit' service I contacted the alt-nets that are local, Netomnia and Trooli but they were not interested in covering our enclave of ~130 houses

So I went back to Cerberus to ask them about FTTPod and they came back with a desk survey price of £22.3k (not sure if that includes VAT), now I knew that Openreach had put the prices up, but given that existing FTTP is <300mup the road and I know there are ducts and poles in place to our house, this was a bit of a shock.

For a comparison I asked a few suppliers for a quote for a 1G leased line. For a 12 month contract they do want to charge installation buts its 'only' £2.7k + VAT, and if we went for a 36 month contract it's free! Yes, the leased line will cost more per month (~£280+VAT) but if myself and a couple of neighbours share the 1G line it rapidly becomes quite similar to the cost of a fast FTTP service, plus it's symmetrical and has a decent Service Level Agreement.

Even paying for a 3-year contract on a 1G leased line on my own, the total after 3 years would still be less than half the install cost of FTTPod!

Yes FTTPoD has been insanely expensive for a few years now. The pricing structure actively discourages folks from ordering it now. Openreach really don't want to be doing it, their resources being too contrasted on the normal FTTP mass deployment.

Leased circuits / DIA are tempting - just make sure of the pricing structure, especially annual inflationary (and other!) prices increases which are now reasonably commonplace. It was once the case that these prices were fixed for the term of the agreement, but no longer and these can have a significant sting in the tail. Make sure you get a copy of the contract and read it thoroughly before signing.

Also check what the situation is with 'sharing' the connection with your neighbours before you order it.

I've been through most of this, including FFTPoD like yourself back in 2018 and I've also had several leased circuits installed from a variety of providers both in central London and Suffolk, so am aware of the pitfalls with ECCs etc. So am happy to share with you my experiences without any agenda.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Leased circuits / DIA are tempting - just make sure of the pricing structure, especially annual inflationary (and other!) prices increases which are now reasonably commonplace. It was once the case that these prices were fixed for the term of the agreement, but no longer and these can have a significant sting in the tail. Make sure you get a copy of the contract and read it thoroughly before signing.

Also carefully check the renewal terms. I've seen several contracts which auto-renew for 12 month periods, and to stop this happening you must give notice at least 90 days *before* the start of the renewal period. Basically, by the time you get near to end of contract and start thinking about what to do next, it's too late. So make sure you have a calendar reminder at least 4 months before.

I agree that FTTPoD is priced out of all reality now. You also have to remember that even though you have to pay the whole amount up-front, there are no guarantees on delivery times - mine took nearly 18 months from start to end. Leased lines generally are much faster to install, since they don't receive any revenue until it's running.

Thanks for the advice.
I have asked about the renewal terms.

Thanks for the advice and your experience.
I have asked for a copy of the terms and about in contract price increases.
I'll report back

For a 12 month contract they do want to charge installation buts its 'only' £2.7k + VAT,

I'have had several leased lines installed at my work and this is a typical install cost but subject to survey so it may in practice be higher.

In reply to a post by MarkLeman:

Thanks for the advice and your experience.
I have asked for a copy of the terms and about in contract price increases.
I'll report back

Who are you thinking of going with?

Check with them regarding sharing or sub-letting your connection with neighbours / etc. also.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Leased circuits / DIA are tempting - just make sure of the pricing structure, especially annual inflationary (and other!) prices increases which are now reasonably commonplace. It was once the case that these prices were fixed for the term of the agreement, but no longer and these can have a significant sting in the tail. Make sure you get a copy of the contract and read it thoroughly before signing.

Also carefully check the renewal terms. I've seen several contracts which auto-renew for 12 month periods, and to stop this happening you must give notice at least 90 days *before* the start of the renewal period. Basically, by the time you get near to end of contract and start thinking about what to do next, it's too late. So make sure you have a calendar reminder at least 4 months before.

I agree that FTTPoD is priced out of all reality now. You also have to remember that even though you have to pay the whole amount up-front, there are no guarantees on delivery times - mine took nearly 18 months from start to end. Leased lines generally are much faster to install, since they don't receive any revenue until it's running.

There's a good chance that the OP will be able to leverage some of their investment in FTTPoD here - similar to us in Suffolk - Openreach used the FTTP infrastructure that we paid for in 2018 to actually deliver the leased circuit. Just not the serving CBT. It definitely made the business case otherwise our ECCs would have been prohibitive.

Different matter entirely in London, where although there is patchy Operneach FTTP coverage across the metropolis (right now anyway) there is *plenty* of other fibre in the ground and even then running to the nearest node will easily be covered by the ECC cover that most providers absorb for a 3 year deal.

In reply to a post by bsdnazz:

For a 12 month contract they do want to charge installation buts its 'only' £2.7k + VAT,

I'have had several leased lines installed at my work and this is a typical install cost but subject to survey so it may in practice be higher.

Yep. They will typically absorb around £3K in ECCs on a longer term agreement (3 years). In some cases for shorter agreements too.

Just be very caveat emptor with all these agreements though as said. They are very expensive to buy yourself out of if the provider isn't up to snuff or service is terrible.

Its not all sweet smelling roses with leased circuits / DIA providers.

There's a good chance that the OP will be able to leverage some of their investment in FTTP here

I believe from previous posts in this forum that the 'barrier' which Openreach used to have between their FTTP and leased line infrastructure is more permeable these days, so I suspect the leased line we are looking at could end up sharing some part of the backhaul installed for FTTP to the exchange.

I find this so frustrating, I would be really happy with FTTP(*) and not have the bother of installing a leased line, and FTTP is available less than 300m up the road, but £22.3k for FTTPod is daft especially given that I know it should be a relatively straightforward job.

*ideally from an alt-net with more upload speed but even Openreach's frustratingly asymmetric offerings would do.

I spoke to some guys who were checking the ducts that lead to our road about 12months ago, they were rodding and installing new pull ropes, so they are probably clear. Also Openreach installed a new access chamber and ducting at the end of our road, to repair my analogue line about 24months ago + they installed new poles in our road a while back. So getting the fibre from the pole to where the existing FTTP is, and hence back to the nearest aggregation node should be straightforward.

I suspect Openreach are not interested in rolling out FTTP at the moment because some of the surrounding roads are probably probably direct buried cable which makes things more difficult/expensive, they are looking to do large blocks for least effort, and whilst there are ~138 houses with no access to fibre in the roads around my house it's not easy enough to be on their priority list .

Edited by MarkLeman (Thu 27-Mar-25 09:57:22)

We’re in rural Kent and in a similar situation. As things stand a leased line may be the only way we’ll ever get an internet connection here that meets even the basic USO standard. We are out of scope of the Project Gigabit rollout that CityFibre are doing, so we tried requesting FTTPoD via Cerberus. The desk quote came back as > £100K, which seems crazy given fibre is already available in the village a few hundred metres down the road.

No idea what the leased line installation cost would be but based on your experience, worth me finding out.

If you have a budget of say 10 grand over a three year period (what a leased line is going to cost you) then it's worth approaching the closest altnet, assuming you're within a few hundred metres of their network, and seeing if they're interested in building for money.

Do you know any examples of altnets who have done that?

Hyperoptic did it for me recently. Business-grade FTTP circuit.

Edit - zero build cost. 2 year agreement. At the moment I'm in the 6 month promotional period of zero cost.

It's through this build process with Hyper that "we" discovered Openreach had snuck in under the radar and popped CBTs in along the street. That discovery around Christmas also was funny as I had approached Cerberus for a bit of a shizz and giggles OK let's just see how outlandish the Openreach FTTPoD will be in this place (before knowledge of said CBTs existing). Funnily enough almost 10 grand, yet the CBT was in the chamber just outside the door. Couldn't make it up.

Stranger things. 🤣

Double edit - Community Fibre were also game, but we decided not to go with them in the end. They wanted a minimum 36 month term for zero up front build costs / ECCs

Edited by Pheasant (Thu 27-Mar-25 14:39:24)

In reply to a post by jpm:

If you have a budget of say 10 grand over a three year period (what a leased line is going to cost you) then it's worth approaching the closest altnet, assuming you're within a few hundred metres of their network, and seeing if they're interested in building for money.

If a local alt-net would install for 10k myself and my neighbours would probably jump at it . I would actually prefer an alt-net FTTP over Openreach FTTP as they tend to offer more symmetrical packages.

I emailed both Netomnia (covers much of Tunbridge Wells which we are on the outskirts of) and Trooli (who cover Pembury which is our exchange) who are both local and offered a contribution. But both declined, the problem is getting to talk to someone who has real knowledge of their roll out and is willing to enter in to a conversation. I think both rely on Openreach PIA and think the install is going to be difficult, where as my local knowledge says it should be straightforward.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

I had approached Cerberus for a bit of a shizz and giggles OK.
...
Funnily enough almost 10 grand, yet the CBT was in the chamber just outside the door. Couldn't make it up.

To give Cerberus their due they can only go with the price Openreach send them back for the desk survey. Personally I found them to be very 'persistent' when doing our FTTPod install at work in 2019, and reliable since. Not the cheapest, but no complaints.

If you're close to the Community Fibre network then in my experience they will install a business service to you, they desktop survey each one and give you a price.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Hyperoptic did it for me recently. Business-grade FTTP circuit.

Do you have a contact at Hyperoptic? The TB map does show they have some installs in Tunbridge Wells, so probably worth asking them.

Oh of course. I had a good overall experience with Cerberus, even though the chap that used to send me the progress updates during the build often got some of the terminology and acronyms horrifically and comically incorrect. The build time was probably the most frustrating aspect, especially as it was all paid up front and then you just had to sit on your hands and wait. The polar opposite of what happens typically with a DIA / leased circuit build. There’s simply zero incentive for Openreach to make FTTPoD builds progress anything faster than glacially and cost a kings ransom.

here’s simply zero incentive for Openreach to make FTTPoD builds progress anything faster than glacially and cost a kings ransom.

That was the 'persistent' part of my experience. Cerberus had to constantly nag Openreach to get things progressed, it took about 12 months from order to going live. But I'm glad they did, FTTP has been much more reliable than our old VDSL service and the speed difference, particularly in upload, has been fantastic.

If £10K would sort the issue I’d bite their hand off for it. Unfortunately the nearest altnet is Trooli and their rollout stopped about a mile short of us. Far closer are Openreach who did most of our village as part of a voucher scheme.

Yes I’ve got the names of several folks there that may be able to help. I’ll message you their contact details.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Yes I’ve got the names of several folks there that may be able to help. I’ll message you their contact details.

Thank you

Message sent with deets earlier in the evening. They do some sort of thing with referrals too, but I’m not particularly bothered unless you are. Hope they can help.

If you express an interest and let it be known that its you AND some neighbours it will help strengthen the case potentially for them to run out to you. But they will take more of an interest I would hazard if one or more of you are requesting a business rather than pure resi connection, for obvious reasons.