FTTP Missed Due to Permission to dig to pole

Hi All,

I recently became aware my property was showing as "Build planned between now and Mar-2025" and I've recently noticed a lot of surrounding houses started showing available for Full Fibre and there was a lot of OR work in the area which has now died down and there very little going on close by.

However the fibre checker still shows as above "Build planned between now and Mar-2025" so I started querying this with OR and it turns out that last year they where unable to get permission to DIG. So for reference the pole that feeds my house and a small block of neighbours, is in another neighbours garden behind me, so I assume this permissions to DIG is they where unable to obtain from my neighbour.

I do wonder why they couldn't just use the copper ducting.. rather than having to do a whole new dig (unless there is an issue with the duct)?? The contact at OR is going to check with the sweeper team to see if perhaps the address has now been included and/or a solution has been found by the sweeper team but I am not hopeful.

Picture of pole
https://imgur.com/a/h7KJC4P

Annoying situation, thinking of knocking on the door and just having a chat about it see if they have had any dealings with OR.

Thanks

Edited by SamBGB (Thu 27-Mar-25 16:15:22)

A picture of the base of the pole, with the capping visible would provide more detail

My line was DIG and my street was originally ignored whilst all the other around me (OH Feeds) got connected up.

They came back to my street about a year later, and done some micro-trenching.

I'd be asking for more information or a map of the area showing the issue. Openreach complaints were great when I contacted them, showing me the plans of area and how my street was DIG. They didn't have any further information though, I just had to wait it out.

I've spoken to the neighbour in question tonight, really friendly chap and he told me that a contractor just turned up to his address and asked for permission to dig up his drive (mono block) and he told him no because the guy didn't really give the air of confidence that the drive would be returned back to the state it was in before the dig.

I would assume that this mono block drive would have to be carefully pulled up and then returned back to its original state should OR (or) a contractor get permissions to do this work. It looks like the fibre junction is right outside his house too in the pavement (OR have already marked it previously) so they'd have to do a bit of the pavement and then bring up his drive up and then up to his back garden where the pole is currently.

There’s a little bit of cross purposes interpretation of “DIG” going on in this thread - just to weigh in here. A common acronym used in Openreach-land called DiG or Direct in Ground - this refers to individual customer connections from the street that were once upon a time (mostly for cost reasons) not ducted, but rather the cable was simply directly buried in the ground. Cheap cheerful and did the job.

Fast forward 30, 40 years and we now have fibre cabling replacing all that copper (and sometimes aluminium cabling). Without a ducted connection it’s obviously far more expensive and time consuming for Openreach to either now lay proper ducts or get to you by other means underground

Now this is somewhat different to getting permission to ‘dig’ elsewhere on the network serving you - which is what this kind of sounds like - with underground access to a pole feeding your connection.

If your house connection is ducted from the street with your existing copper connection then Openreach will typically use this. Elsewhere where there are ducts on the network these will have copper running through, but may be congested (with cables) or need to be unlocked (from mud and [censored]). So could need dig-ing 😅

Ah yeah my bad there, ignore my previous post

Looks like this isn’t going to be as straight forward as getting the neighbours permission now.

From openreach

Essentially the project team that led this build programme (Fibre Cities) have completed their build, meaning the programme along with its budget has closed, they have since handed the exchange area over to our ‘sweeper programme’.

As previously discussed, the sweeper programme is responsible for completing any remaining works which were left from previous build programmes, this includes small sections of cabling, jointing, splicing and poling but does not include extensive dig/civils related work, complex works, etc.

I mention the above because the original programme covering these works has come to a closure, therefore they won’t be able to reattend the site and make contact with the landowner again to discuss the permission to work/dig. I have however been made aware that the sweeper programme is being moved into your area

How has your contact with Openreach been initiated / via what means exactly?

Have they been been referred by the executive escalations team within Openreach?

Yes this is with the executive team.

In that case you’ve played your ace and your joker and you will have to hope the sweeper team come good on appeal. Good luck. 🤞

Indeed.

I will keep the thread updated as things progress or stall

So interesting that the Availability Checker on OR website went from Build Planned Between Now and March 2025 and then to Not Available Yet and then to Between Now and June 2025

Something may be afoot. 🤞

I wouldn't try and read the tealeaves *too* much on databases doing strange things. Records can get updated for negative as well as positive reasons. In my experience you buy the service you can get at the time, check in every now and then for updates but don't get carried away.

Against my own best judgements I made an assumption on FTTP build based on local activity and it got far too squeaky-bum in terms of the cease date of an existing service for my liking. Until it's physically on your wall and lit up you just don't know.

I do agree and I am not getting my hopes up. OR services have been pretty abysmal around here for years... no FTTC and only ADSL up to 3.0mbps.

Had a call from OR executive office and been told the chief engineers office is taking this case up, they phoned back and said they will do an intrusive survey to check costs and too see what’s required to be possible to get the pole connected up.

That’s a good update. Fingers crossed 🤞

Just a quick update.

The survey was completed a few weeks ago and a build is now planned which has now been approved by OR. The regulatory paperwork is being filed for the build (planning).

Seems the plan is to put a new pole on the pavement on the street (they already have planning permission for this) that has line of site to the pole behind my house and one across the road (which doesn't have FTTP either) to connect both I believe.

Positive update so far.

Very good. Thanks for circling back. Hope it all goes smoothly 👍

Good luck, keep a look out on the roadwork sites for a dot for the pole!

Looks like they have started digging the hole for the pole, not really sure where they are going to connect it from. I see some white spray paint on the pavement but can't really tell where they are connecting the pole from. Roadworks show a 12 metre length.

They have now dug a trench, I think the trench must be filled in now as well as there are only boards down on it, no fence round it (not had a proper look yet).

The pole is to go in on Monday.

Have to said I am surprised the size of the trench (see image at link below) surely thats not all that was needs to get fibre up this pole? wonder why they never just considered this during the roll out.

https://app.screencast.com/uFHdy76YasKPK

-Sam

Edited by SamBGB (Fri 30-May-25 15:24:31)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In that case you’ve played your ace and your joker and you will have to hope the sweeper team come good on appeal. Good luck. 🤞

looking back on this thread. It made sense for Sam to have contacted Exec team, as the budget had been used and released for other projects and no idea of demand. Sam made that demand more visible and one of those "erm this shouldn't be like this" type situation. The two people i had contact with and the leader of the fibre install on the ground were totally fab.

Post office/bt/or have over the years (decades) sometimes have done bodge jobs, the fibre upgrade brings those to light.

That’s the physical pole installed. There is a thick black wire or conduit running out the ground to the bottom of it, not sure what it is. So next step is to get the wires on I believe.

Unlikely to be the fibre, sounds like a duct in readiness for the fibre feed to the pole.

It might be the little tube that lets people inspect how deep the pole has been buried

There was a trench there but seems to have been filled in since the pole was put in.

https://app.screencast.com/uFHdy76YasKPK

In reply to a post by jpm:

It might be the little tube that lets people inspect how deep the pole has been buried

Good point.

In reply to a post by SamBGB:

There was a trench there but seems to have been filled in since the pole was put in.

https://app.screencast.com/uFHdy76YasKPK

Good progress. Shouldn't be too much longer hopefully.

Some images taken from the pole itself along with some ductimg with rope hanging out it.

https://imgur.com/a/xz2ruJy

That’s the fibre nodes on the pole in my neighbours garden, not connected and nothing on the new pole yet.

https://imgur.com/a/AzADjlM

In reply to a post by jpm:

It might be the little tube that lets people inspect how deep the pole has been buried

It's to pour wood preserver down !.
Normally about 20mm Diameter, black with a red cap on it.

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In reply to a post by jpm:

It might be the little tube that lets people inspect how deep the pole has been buried

It's to pour wood preserver down !.
Normally about 20mm Diameter, black with a red cap on it.

@jpm was right first time, it has been known for rogue pole installers to cut a metre or so off the bottom of the pole which meant they didn't bother to put the pole as deep in the ground as is required. Using the black tube the depth of the pole can be physically measured rather than relying on using the datum mark on the pole.

In reply to a post by PCJM40:

In reply to a post by APTMAN:

In reply to a post by jpm:

It might be the little tube that lets people inspect how deep the pole has been buried

It's to pour wood preserver down !.
Normally about 20mm Diameter, black with a red cap on it.

@jpm was right first time, it has been known for rogue pole installers to cut a metre or so off the bottom of the pole which meant they didn't bother to put the pole as deep in the ground as is required. Using the black tube the depth of the pole can be physically measured rather than relying on using the datum mark on the pole.

A second vote for ‘its for checking that the pole has been buried to the required depth’.

It’s not a thought you want lurking at the back of your mind as you climb … ‘did the contractors who erected this pole fancy an early finish that day ?’

Hi All,

Looks like the build was completed today.

I can see they have connected the two poles together and connected the fibre nodes. They've come and done a stage 1 instal, so the CSP is now on the back of my house. Looks like I just need to wait for the OR db to update so I can place an order with Zen.

Something non standard going on here , Openreach build the network to the CBT , and make it RFS ‘ready for service’ so an ISP can then raise an order should a consumer contact them and ask for service ….its only when an ISP has received an order and instructed Openreach , that an Openreach visit to fit anything at the customer is arranged , you should not get a CSP fitted and a connection to the CBT without an order , that’s even if it’s a two stage installation, unless an order has been made by an ISP for you ….you seem to be getting some work done , work that is only ever undertaken with a live order so why is this getting done without any current order being raised ?

Edited by Iniltous (Mon 23-Jun-25 17:25:15)

Thats right and thats what I thought too. This all stems from the chief engineers office because a number of properties where missed during the initial build of fibre in my area, due to my neighbour not giving permission for them to dig the fibre to the pole that feeds my property.

A complaint to CEO office resulted in them finding an alternative, a new pole on the street that could feed my pole overhead. Thats all happened and been done over the last few months.

Not sure why the CSP was fitted today though, initially they where going to do the ONT as well but decided that it would be best just to do the CSP and your right it means I am one step ahead as there is no live order yet, as the OR checker doesn't see the address as FTTP available yet.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Something not standard going on here , Openreach build the network to the CBT , and make it ready for service so an ISP can raise an order , should a consumer contact them ans ask for service ….its only when an USP has received an order and instigated an Openreach visit , should you get a CSP fitted and a connection to the CBT , even if it’s a two stage installation, you seem to be getting some work done , that is only undertaken with a live order , done without any current order raised .

I agree its different than what you and I would expect but SamBGB isn't the first on here to say that they have had a CSP installed before an order has been placed.

In reply to a post by SamBGB:

This all stems from the chief engineers office because a number of properties where missed during the initial build of fibre in my area, due to my neighbour not giving permission for them to dig the fibre to the pole that feeds my property.

A complaint to CEO office resulted in them finding an alternative, a new pole on the street that could feed my pole overhead. Thats all happened and been done over the last few months.

It makes sense now, after intervention from the CEO's office the guys on the ground throw the rule book out the window and do all sorts of non-standard stuff.

Presumably it’s the Chief Engineer involvement, and although it’s unlikely, if the OP changes their mind and doesn’t actually order ,, it’s a little premature to be fitting a CSP without any ‘authority’ to do so , that authority implied by the raising of an order

Yeh funny enough a few of the openreach engineers had this exact discussion in the driveway, the decision was to do just the CSP rather than the CSP and ONT. I did sign something to authorise the work including the bolts to the building etc.

In reply to a post by SamBGB:

Hi All,

Looks like the build was completed today.

I can see they have connected the two poles together and connected the fibre nodes. They've come and done a stage 1 instal, so the CSP is now on the back of my house. Looks like I just need to wait for the OR db to update so I can place an order with Zen.

Nice! 3 months from start to finish, including the pole etc. I think that's a pretty good result.

Enjoy your new FTTP connection (once ordered). 👍

Yes, I must say I have been impressed with OR on this one. They have have kept me informed throughout the process and have done the work quickly.

The Managing director's escalations team are pretty fab. But it should be only used in cases where is no other route to resolving something otherise the specialness will get diluted .

I totally agree.

The issue here was that my neighbour didn't give permission for the dig and there were no alternative plans to connect my house and quite a few others, the original build has been completed and the money from the build had been spent so there where no near term alternatives in the works.

At the moment these houses that are missed do have access to VM but the service is pretty dire, thats why I took it up with the escalations team

So someone turned up today to put in the ONT but he couldn’t activate at as the build hasn’t been commissioned yet. He did say that he was seeing low light levels but put that down to the build not having been commissioned yet. Must admit I am dubious that’s the reason but I don’t know enough to say if that’s the problem or not, seems quite the granular network to be able to affect light levels within their network? I’d have thought that it being all connected up the light levels would’ve been tested from the CBT on poles to the CSP at time of the install and would’ve been at their “standard expected” levels even before commissioning.

Openreach guy did say he doesn’t normally do installs in house, usually is a stage 1 installer.

Edited by SamBGB (Thu 26-Jun-25 15:41:12)

Interestingly across the road from me had their pole installed two day ago and have gone live. Still waiting on mine, not sure if that’s because they where part of the original build plan.

In reply to a post by SamBGB:

Interestingly across the road from me had their pole installed two day ago and have gone live. Still waiting on mine, not sure if that’s because they where part of the original build plan.

You may find its two different teams doing the work, yours because of the escalation is likely done directly by Openreach engineers whereas the other works is likely done by a tier 1 or 2 contractor of Openreach.

Also the PON serving the pole across the road may have had its exchange work done weeks ago whereas yours may be a very recent work request.

Edited by PCJM40 (Sun 29-Jun-25 11:26:39)

So the CSP is at the back of the house and I needed the ONT at the front of the house, the engineer decided that best way was to just bring the cable through the living room and this was the job.

What do you think? Can’t say I am thrilled with it but the don’t want to complain too much as OR have been really good to this point and think I should just tidy it up myself.

https://imgur.com/a/vPx3CUX

That does look extremely shoddy

In reply to a post by SamBGB:

What do you think?

Wouldn't tolerate it myself.

But the key to this is having it set in your own mind how you want the job done before OR drill their hole

1. The CSP and the ONT should ideally be pretty much back to back on an external wall. That gets rid of the loop of fibre and the blob of sealing gunge
2. That adds the constraint that the ONT and the CSP must be near a mains socket on or near an external wall
3. The router can be where you want it and you own running an ethernet between ONT and router. That makes it your cable, which can be as tidy as you can make it or as untidy as you can tolerate

I think that may be the summation of everything about the householder side of FTTP installation, unless you provide your own route for fibre from CSP to ONT

Fixing this now requires some thought as to whether you can place the ONT behind the CSP and get mains to the location. Unless you pay for a new install, a reasonable compromise is to redo from CSP to ONT. I think moving the CSP would reasonably be chargeable.

I wouldn't be happy with that workmanship

Since it’s a bit messy I’m thinking of asking for them to come back and I’ll just have them put the ONT on the other side of the wall opposite wall to the CSP, I’m worried about the fragility of that cable.

Power shouldn’t be an option really because I could use a short 1m extension from a mains socket that’s on the adjoining wall.

I am going to have to run another Cat 6 cable to the 2.5Gbe WAN port on the router. I could run another Cat6 cable as I have POE available so could run an additional cable to a barrel jack 2.5Gbe POE injector. I’ll cover this will new d-line trunking to hide the additional Cat6 cables.

This would keep the fibre cable short and more secure and I will cover the hole in with an internal cable point cover.

Edited by SamBGB (Sun 29-Jun-25 21:40:59)

I think you have every right to complain.
That is a seriously [censored] poor install. Send them that same link, the work carried out is unacceptable.

No, have the fibre run the ‘short 1m’ to where the that power already is, negate the need for the trailing power lead.

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

No, have the fibre run the ‘short 1m’ to where the that power already is, negate the need for the trailing power lead.

??? Have the power lead run the ‘short 1m’ to where the fibre already is, negate the need for the trailing fibre.
Trailing fibre and trailing power lead are both a pain in the backside. It's all a bit zero sum really. Except I think I would rather replace a damaged power lead than replace a damaged fibre.

They've agreed to come back to fix this which is good, after I come back from Holiday. On a plus note FTTP is showing available now at the address but escalations have said that it's not showing fully commissioned on their side just yet.

I am thinking this instead.

https://imgur.com/a/hhlUaNs

Then no need to drill into wall papered wall.

I see your point. But it easy to the fibre neatly and securely, and to my mind reasonably unobtrusively along a skirting. I think a trailing power extension looks worse.

A matter of choice.

At least they are coming back to put it right, what was left was tatty as …