Fibre deployed to MDU car park. Wayleave still required?

Hello again,

Just to recap, a couple of month ago our Freeholder got in touch with Openreach to provide wayleave but they said it wasn't the right time as our development had several blocks and they weren't looking to deploy yet.

To my surprise today, Openreach routed some hollow tubes to a man-hole in our car park. I asked the engineer if he will be installing the off-white colour fibre splitter box in the communal area and he said it wasn't necessary.

They connected the BT man-hole in our car park with the BT man-hole out on the street. Since the SDUs out there just had access to FTTH, this is a good sign I guess.

It wasn't the easiest to communicate with them but I was told that the tenants would be connected directly to the termination point under the man-hole cover. This raises 2 questions:

1) Does this mean a wayleave is no longer required from the landlord?

2) Was this piece of work (deploying to the man-hole in our private car park) done w/o a wayleave in the first place? Is it required in this situation?

I've attached 2 pictures for reference. Thanks again.


https://i.postimg.cc/4Nb7dcZF/1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/YSgwr6Bv/2.jpg

Edited by squarecrumpets (Wed 23-Apr-25 18:28:42)

You sure they were Openreach contractors ?,
I’m not sure what that is they have coiled , (it’s nothing I’m familiar with ) presumably they are using whatever it is as a subduct ( a smaller duct within an Openreach duct , a pipe within a pipe ) or possibly BFT ( blown fibre tubing ) are you sure these weren’t working for an Alt Net , TBH , I wouldn’t be surprised if they said they were Openreach when they weren’t , like giving the wrong location details, if they break anything belonging to OR , they deny being in the area whereas correctly filled in location logs would place them at the scene of the crime …..they are definitely not OR direct labour.

If they have installed something into an Openreach jointbox , even if its in a car park , no extra wayleave is required for that , that is Openreach property , even if its on private land , it would be unusual to put (for example) a CBT in that jointbox to service units in the MDU , if there is a duct in that jointbox that surfaces in a utility area (for example) getting another cable from the utility area to an individual flat would almost certainly need access to common areas that need the management services or freeholder permission to access , whatever these people were doing it may simply just be preparatory work , I suspect it’s not actually for Openreach

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 23-Apr-25 16:33:57)

If there is already a wayleave in place as far as the manhole (which there would be for the copper services if they route that way) then they wouldn't need another.

Any wayleave in place may (or may not) include wiring in the building as well.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

You sure they were Openreach contractors ?,
I’m not sure what that is they have coiled , (it’s nothing I’m familiar with ) presumably they are using whatever it is as a subduct ( a smaller duct within an Openreach duct , a pipe within a pipe ) or possibly BFT ( blown fibre tubing ) are you sure these weren’t working for an Alt Net , TBH , I wouldn’t be surprised if they said they were Openreach when they weren’t , like giving the wrong location details, if they break anything belonging to OR , they deny being in the area whereas correctly filled in location logs would place them at the scene of the crime …..they are definitely not OR direct labour.

If they have installed something into an Openreach jointbox , even if its in a car park , no extra wayleave is required for that , that is Openreach property , even if its on private land , it would be unusual to put (for example) a CBT in that jointbox to service units in the MDU , if there is a duct in that jointbox that surfaces in a utility area (for example) getting another cable from the utility area to an individual flat would almost certainly need access to common areas that need the management services or freeholder permission to access , whatever these people were doing it may simply just be preparatory work , I suspect it’s not actually for Openreach

Hmmm good point about who they really are. When I asked the guy he said BT, I then asked if they were Openreach and he said yes. I can't think of who else they may be because we don't have any altnets here. No Virgin HFC, i.e. no Virgin Media TV service etc. Under the man-hole cover there was already a bundle of copper cables for phone lines that connect to the individual flats so it's definitely owned by Openreach.

Furthermore, this man-hole and the one they connected to out on the street have BT marked on their covers.

There isn't a duct in the box that surfaces in a utility area. The copper cables just connect directly to the individual flats from there.

I hope it's Openreach preparatory work, because every SDU along my street and adjacent ones already have FTTH available.

Here's a closer picture showing an existing black connection thing under the man-hole that is almost certainly for copper phone lines:

https://i.postimg.cc/jj7t4K79/3-3200.jpg

Edited by squarecrumpets (Wed 23-Apr-25 18:30:02)

In reply to a post by JonRennie:

If there is already a wayleave in place as far as the manhole (which there would be for the copper services if they route that way) then they wouldn't need another.

Any wayleave in place may (or may not) include wiring in the building as well.

Thanks, this is what I suspected too. Providing wayleave isn't an issue as our landlord has been waiting for Openreach to reach the stage where they want it. I guess they'll need it once fibre has been laid to this man-hole. Today, they just laid a hollow tube for fibre.

Yep, my first thought was ‘they ain’t Openreach staff’ too

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

Yep, my first thought was ‘they ain’t Openreach staff’ too

Ohh no!!!

If they are truly from an altnet, then they must have gotten permission from Openreach to use that man-hole cover I guess. No one else seems to be deploying to this area though. Virgin was seen running fibre along the main road but they don't cover our property right now.

Pretty every altnet you've ever heard of , and many you haven't, can use openreach ducts and poles to provide their network.

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

If they are truly from an altnet, then they must have gotten permission from Openreach to use that man-hole cover I guess. No one else seems to be deploying to this area though. Virgin was seen running fibre along the main road but they don't cover our property right now.

Anything for your area show up on Thinkbroadband’s roadworks map?
https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

Or if nothing showing, have a look at: https://one.network

Or even https://bidb.uk

That is indeed a copper universal clip joint.

Your first post mentioned that the workers said yes to being there for BT then Openreach … contractors for sure, just trying to say what they think will get you on your way ASAP

In reply to a post by Zarjaz:

That is indeed a copper universal clip joint.

Your first post mentioned that the workers said yes to being there for BT then Openreach … contractors for sure, just trying to say what they think will get you on your way ASAP

Yup it feels that way now that I think about it.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

If they are truly from an altnet, then they must have gotten permission from Openreach to use that man-hole cover I guess. No one else seems to be deploying to this area though. Virgin was seen running fibre along the main road but they don't cover our property right now.

Anything for your area show up on Thinkbroadband’s roadworks map?
https://labs.thinkbroadband.com/local/broadband-map#...

Or if nothing showing, have a look at: https://one.network

Or even https://bidb.uk

Hello,

Thanks for the URLs. I was only aware of bidb.uk anyway nothing shows up on any but I'll save these for future use.

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Pretty every altnet you've ever heard of , and many you haven't, can use openreach ducts and poles to provide their network.

Yes I just remembered Openreach allows them to. However, there are no altnets (apart from Virgin) in this area. If a new player shows up, I'd imaging they'd make their service available to SDUs first before doing something for MDUs. I have seen Virgin deploying fibre under the long main road, presumably to convert existing SDUs from HFC to RFoG or FTTH but our block of flats has never had Virgin's services. It's possible they may be looking to provide them here.

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

Thanks for the URLs. I was only aware of bidb.uk anyway nothing shows up on any but I'll save these for future use.

No problem, always worth looking at for anything going on in the street.

In reply to a post by jchamier:

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

Thanks for the URLs. I was only aware of bidb.uk anyway nothing shows up on any but I'll save these for future use.

No problem, always worth looking at for anything going on in the street.

hmm my property shows up as Blue (Under Review) under Project Gigabit OMR Status

Looks like Openreach is doing a fair amount of work in Stevenage, and so is Netomnia?

As said this has all the hallmarks of subcontractors working on behalf of an AltNet rather then Openreach.

Unfortunately bidb et al won’t show works that don’t require any street works permits. So it’s quite possible that a lot of the work will go on “undetected” by these tools.

In reply to a post by mr_mojo:

Looks like Openreach is doing a fair amount of work in Stevenage, and so is Netomnia?

Not seen Netomnia around. CityFibre yes. Openreach definitely. The man-hole across my window is the main connection point for this entire area. They did a lot of cobra work from other manholes to this one. They then unloaded one of those massive wooden reel with very large diameter cable into it. After that, they spent about 2 weeks sitting in that manhole under an umbrella splicing all the fibres. Shortly after that was done, all SDUs in my area had Openreach FTTH available to them.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

As said this has all the hallmarks of subcontractors working on behalf of an AltNet rather then Openreach.

Unfortunately bidb et al won’t show works that don’t require any street works permits. So it’s quite possible that a lot of the work will go on “undetected” by these tools.

OK They've showed up again today and this time their 'supervisor' made a quick stop to have a word in a marked car. The company is called 'FiberOne' but they don't seem to be an ISP or a network. Are they a sub-contractor for Netomnia or Openreach?

Here's a picture of the car:

https://i.postimg.cc/SscsvJy9/4.jpg

Could be CityFibre?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Could be CityFibre?

Possible but I've seen them deploying in other areas nearby. They don't use these hollow tubes and the plastic safety work barrier they erect have their logo on them.

FiberOne are active in Hitchin and Letchworth installing on behalf of WhyFibre

In reply to a post by ferretuk:

FiberOne are active in Hitchin and Letchworth installing on behalf of WhyFibre

This is very important info since Stevenage is next to both of those places. Thank you.

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

In reply to a post by ian72:

Could be CityFibre?

Possible but I've seen them deploying in other areas nearby. They don't use these hollow tubes and the plastic safety work barrier they erect have their logo on them.

It's WhyFibre

Mystery solved guys! They're from WhyFibre. Thanks for all your help. The sign says 'FiberOne working on behalf of WhyFibre'

https://i.postimg.cc/76KmRLhX/6.jpg

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

Mystery solved guys! They're from WhyFibre. Thanks for all your help. The sign says 'FiberOne working on behalf of WhyFibre'

https://i.postimg.cc/76KmRLhX/6.jpg

So much for this eh...

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

...
Hmmm good point about who they really are. When I asked the guy he said BT, I then asked if they were Openreach and he said yes.

Furthermore, this man-hole and the one they connected to out on the street have BT marked on their covers.
...

Proves that they will say just about anything to a member of the public, basically to be left to get on...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

...
Proves that they will say just about anything to a member of the public, basically to be left to get on...

Yeah exactly, it it could be genuinely possible they don't know who they work for. None of them were locals.

Edited by squarecrumpets (Fri 25-Apr-25 11:52:47)

The guys that get employed to do the grunt work of pulling in subduct, digging, rodding, roping and all the very heavy and unpleasant manual elements of civils work, will just be told a few words by their governor of what to say.

I recently had one small crew of civils contractors recently doing work for a Hyperoptic connection, they had to dig and repair / reinstate a bend / tee in some 54mm duct. The older guy had no English whatsoever and his younger sidekick was clearly less experienced but was the 'translator'. I also had the number of their governor / boss man (whom Hyperoptic eloquently refer to as their 'partners'). This chap was clearly British and was in charge of coordination and supervision - he knew precisely and exactly who they were working for and how. The guys on the ground, not a chance.

Welcome to the harsh reality of building work, civils contractors and subbies in 2025. Glamorous it is not.

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

The man-hole across my window is the main connection point for this entire area. They did a lot of cobra work from other manholes to this one.

Sounds like it's a Fibre Aggregation Node.

Posted this before but it is probably even more valid now!

https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4694421-re...

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

The guys that get employed to do the grunt work of pulling in subduct, digging, rodding, roping and all the very heavy and unpleasant manual elements of civils work, will just be told a few words by their governor of what to say.

I recently had one small crew of civils contractors recently doing work for a Hyperoptic connection, they had to dig and repair / reinstate a bend / tee in some 54mm duct. The older guy had no English whatsoever and his younger sidekick was clearly less experienced but was the 'translator'. I also had the number of their governor / boss man (whom Hyperoptic eloquently refer to as their 'partners'). This chap was clearly British and was in charge of coordination and supervision - he knew precisely and exactly who they were working for and how. The guys on the ground, not a chance.

Welcome to the harsh reality of building work, civils contractors and subbies in 2025. Glamorous it is not.

Yup, as expected.

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

The man-hole across my window is the main connection point for this entire area. They did a lot of cobra work from other manholes to this one.

Sounds like it's a Fibre Aggregation Node.

I've just looked at a GPON Network Diagram and yes it sounds like that's what it is. So that large diameter cable they unloaded from the massive wooden reel connects it to the Exchange I guess.

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

In reply to a post by candlerb:

In reply to a post by squarecrumpets:

The man-hole across my window is the main connection point for this entire area. They did a lot of cobra work from other manholes to this one.

Sounds like it's a Fibre Aggregation Node.

I've just looked at a GPON Network Diagram and yes it sounds like that's what it is. So that large diameter cable they unloaded from the massive wooden reel connects it to the Exchange I guess.

That's just getting confused.com 😂

An aggregation node is an Openreach term / contrivance, specifically for the Openreach FTTP network, and for no one else to touch, for their exclusive use. It's basically a fancy term for a bunch of fibre splice trays inside a large-ish waterproof enclosure. It aggregates all the Openreach fibre that then runs back to the BT handover exchange.

The contractors you saw were pulling in subduct for their *OWN* fibre network. They will use Openreach ducts (under a rental agreement otherwise known as PIA) to facilitate this, but otherwise will not touch or connect with ANY Openreach actual fibre infrastructure.

In any given Openreach duct (or strung between poles) are fibres from not just Openreach but many other carriers and alternative FTTP networks.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

That's just getting confused.com 😂

An aggregation node is an Openreach term / contrivance, specifically for the Openreach FTTP network, and for no one else to touch, for their exclusive use. It's basically a fancy term for a bunch of fibre splice trays inside a large-ish waterproof enclosure. It aggregates all the Openreach fibre that then runs back to the BT handover exchange.

The contractors you saw were pulling in subduct for their *OWN* fibre network. They will use Openreach ducts (under a rental agreement otherwise known as PIA) to facilitate this, but otherwise will not touch or connect with ANY Openreach actual fibre infrastructure.

In any given Openreach duct (or strung between poles) are fibres from not just Openreach but many other carriers and alternative FTTP networks.

Yes this is exactly how I understand it. Thanks.

FiberOne came today to blow fibre through the sub-ducts.

This explains why they had to deploy the hollow sub-ducts ahead of time. They're using blown fibre.

Pics:

https://i.postimg.cc/ZKQTHnDD/IMG-5400-1600.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/5tBbf39Z/IMG-5401-1600.jpg