Openreach says we are live with FTTP; BT Wholesale says no.

Got an email earlier in the week saying FTTP was now available to order. Our house shows on the Openreach broadband checker as having FTTP available. Certainly the connections works have been done and poles have the connectors on them.


BT Wholesale doesn't which means that it wouldn't be available thru resellers.


I have Community Fibre and am not looking to order - but I would like the ability.


Is there a known mismatch between OR and BTw?

In reply to a post by heathrow:

Is there a known mismatch between OR and BTw?

There can be, if OR is available then some ISPs that don't use BTw connectivity can supply. Not all OR based ISPs use BTwholesale.

All FTTP should be order for any ISPs from Openreach. BTw Wholesale are useless!

Just takes a little time. Which providers have you tried?

In reply to a post by heathrow:

BT Wholesale doesn't which means that it wouldn't be available thru resellers.

It could still be available to ISPs which connect to Openreach directly via their own backhaul network (e.g. Sky, Zen, Talktalk), or who buy via the wholesale offerings of those networks (e.g. AAISP can buy via Zen)

However, if BTW has presence at that handover exchange (very likely) and sufficient free capacity (quite likely) then it might just take a few days to percolate through to their systems.

Yes, this. If you've only gone live this week then wait a little bit and it will start showing up on the ISPs that use Openreach.

What does the BT Wholesale checker actually state when you put your address details in?

In reply to a post by witchunt:

Just takes a little time. Which providers have you tried?

I found it took a little nudge via the Openreach fibre portal enquiry after discovering CBTs had been installed (and presumably lit) in footway chambers along the street late last year. That was ‘discovered’ courtesy of an AltNet install and cable pull along the street 😂

Openreach personally responded the next day (it was Christmas) and confirmed a database delay / NAD association issue. Within hours the BT Wholesale checker records had been updated and several days later the automated ‘congratulations you can order FTTP email’ came through from Openreach.

Andrews and Arnold. Their checker is very good and it still shows VDSL/ADSL - no FTTP.

This:

VDSL Range A (Clean) help 55.7 38.8 11.3 7.3 33.6 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 55 35 11.3 7 27.4 Available Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal Y
SOADSL Restriction N

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

So -

AAISP, SKY, BT - no FTTP.

Zen - FTTP available to order.

I'd probably give it a few days to catch up.

Otherwise if you want to chivvy it along try completing the Openreach form here and it may prompt a faster review and update of the records.

Remember Zen can offer multiple carriers now - when you run the Zen checker look at the URL when it presents the results -

https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/broadband-results?s=trooli
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/broadband-results?s=openreach
https://www.zen.co.uk/broadband/broadband-results?s=cityfibre

...that may either confirm they are offering openreach or someone else.

Appreciate your question is around BTw.. but this may help to understand/confirm why Zen says available and others don't.

HTH.

Edited by rupert999 (Mon 12-May-25 10:33:38)

Thanks, I've submitted the form to OR.

Bizarrely - it was bt wholesale...

Actually not so bizarre given that Zen don’t now use BTW as they once did. So I’m not surprised that Zen could offer FTTP service over Openreach, where others providers (utilising BTW connectivity) cannot. Yet anyway.

So perhaps this is anomalous database behaviour or one of the rare cases where BTW genuinely are not fully ready to go in the handover exchange, but Zen are.

In reply to a post by heathrow:

This:

VDSL Range A (Clean) help 55.7 38.8 11.3 7.3 33.6 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 55 35 11.3 7 27.4 Available Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal Y
SOADSL Restriction N

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

Is that a fresh search result? That doesn’t look quite right - in the top 2 rows is the second to last column “Available” for FTTC availability? That should be set to Unavailable.

I’ve just spotted in another thread of mine that you noted you’re actually in NW9, which is a rather large London postcode. Are you on the Colindale or Kingsbury exchange?

This seems more and more like a BTW database hiccup.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

Actually not so bizarre given that Zen don’t now use BTW as they once did.

I think Zen's own backhaul was deployed under a project called Plexus.

I'm on Colindale exchange.


Sending a message to Openreach was an utter waste of time. This was the response:


Thank you for your recent enquiry via openreach.com, regarding the availability of fibre broadband.



I've looked into your enquiry and can confirm that Ultrafast Full Fibre Broadband is available to order.



All you need to do to place an order, is contact any one of the hundreds of broadband providers who are powered by our network, as Openreach doesn't provide phone, broadband or TV services directly.



You can find a list of broadband providers here: Ultrafast Full Fibre Broadband providers >



I will close your enquiry, as our records show you can now place an order. If your broadband provider has any issues please ask them to contact us directly.



If you need to contact us further please use the following link, as the email account I'm writing to you from doesn't accept replies. 




- Yeah, I was asking about BTWholesale - you just ignored me.

Needless to say apart from Zen the BTW resellers show us as only having FTTC.

Which ISP do you want to sign up with?

You need to tell your ISP to get in touch with BTwholesale.

BTW will not speak to you as a customer! Only your ISP will instruct BTW on your behalf.

Who is your ISP?

Edited by adslmax (Tue 13-May-25 11:59:03)

As per my note elswhere, not looking to sign up with anyone right now....

So, you got no ISP at the moment, then you got no one speak to BTW then.

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by heathrow:

This:

VDSL Range A (Clean) help 55.7 38.8 11.3 7.3 33.6 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 55 35 11.3 7 27.4 Available Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal Y
SOADSL Restriction N

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

Is that a fresh search result? That doesn’t look quite right - in the top 2 rows is the second to last column “Available” for FTTC availability? That should be set to Unavailable.

I’ve just spotted in another thread of mine that you noted you’re actually in NW9, which is a rather large London postcode. Are you on the Colindale or Kingsbury exchange?

This seems more and more like a BTW database hiccup.

It says not a priority exchange so no stop-sell of copper just yet.

The problem is that you're being impatient. Just wait a couple of weeks.

In reply to a post by XGS_Is_On:

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

In reply to a post by heathrow:

This:

VDSL Range A (Clean) help 55.7 38.8 11.3 7.3 33.6 Available Available
VDSL Range B (Impacted) help 55 35 11.3 7 27.4 Available Available
Other Offerings Availability Date
VDSL Multicast Available
Exchange Product Restrictions Status
FTTP Priority Exchange N
WLR Withdrawal Y
SOADSL Restriction N

The exchange is not in a current fibre priority programme

As a WLR withdrawal exchange, product restrictions apply

Is that a fresh search result? That doesn’t look quite right - in the top 2 rows is the second to last column “Available” for FTTC availability? That should be set to Unavailable.

I’ve just spotted in another thread of mine that you noted you’re actually in NW9, which is a rather large London postcode. Are you on the Colindale or Kingsbury exchange?

This seems more and more like a BTW database hiccup.

It says not a priority exchange so no stop-sell of copper just yet.

FTTC ought to be “unavailable” and the corresponding / adjacent column for SOGEA should “available”, if records have been updated / touched since national stop sell on WLR.

Don’t think FTTP priority exchange has a bearing on it, at least it shouldn’t and doesn’t on my records (which aren’t in priority exchanges either) as it’s not a copper withdrawal thing.

We had OR installed in the street last year.


Plenty of ISPs available except BT.

Edited by Alucidnation (Sat 17-May-25 10:32:52)

In reply to a post by Pheasant:

FTTC ought to be “unavailable” and the corresponding / adjacent column for SOGEA should “available”, if records have been updated / touched since national stop sell on WLR.

Don’t think FTTP priority exchange has a bearing on it, at least it shouldn’t and doesn’t on my records (which aren’t in priority exchanges either) as it’s not a copper withdrawal thing.

Yep my error. It shouldn't be available anywhere unless it's already in use and there's something exceptional about the address.

In reply to a post by heathrow:

As per my note elswhere, not looking to sign up with anyone right now....

Nothing then to be concerned about until the time you’re considering an order. At which point the database records may have updated. Otherwise it may be worthwhile discussing with some smaller more boutique ISPs that run over OR (and use BTW for connectivity), as they tend to be more willing to look into any BTW database issues.

What about this one ORDI to see if it does matched database BTw and Openreach and Royal Mail address. A Gold NAD key, which is usually enough for an FTTP order, indicates that an address is or has been historically served by Openreach or has a pre-designed association to an Openreach network. The key takes the form of A00000000000.

The address *is* able to order an Openreach-based FTTP - that is the address does appear on the Openreach FTTP check but simply doesn't appear on the BT Wholesale check.

The OP spelled out which ISPs they were able to put a dummy FTTP through on earlier in the thread. None of them use BTW backhaul / connectivity.

It's a BTW database issue, rather than an ORDI / NAD key issue with Openreach AFAIK. They've already tried a 'nudge' using the OR Availability Checker Enquiry.

Correct.


Only Zen is showing FTTP as available to order.

So latest developments:

1. Openreach continues to show as available for FTTP.
2. BT Wholesale doesn't.
3. We have now received a couple of mailings from EE saying "New EE Full Fibre Broadband has arrived at (our street)"


Checking on the EE website shows that FTTP is not available.

Zen continues to show FTTP as being available...

Do Talk Talk and Sky show availability ( not a recommendation to use them BTW ) , AFAIK neither use BTw for their backhaul

TalkTalk shows only FTTC.

Sky only shows FTTC.

AAISP only shows FTTC.

BTw and EE only shows FTTC.

Openreach shows FTTP.

Zen shows FTTP.

IDNet shows FTTP.

Rebel shows FTTP.

Vodafone shows FTTC.

Edited by heathrow (Thu 05-Jun-25 20:42:35)

Databases. Wonderful things that make the modern world work. Except when they don't.

They will catch up at some point. An application to AAISP (or Aquiss etc / a smaller more diligent ISP) would probably help nudge BTW into an update.

Either way if you're not ready, right now, to place an order then its a little bit academic, although possibly triggering for some with OCD.

In reply to a post by heathrow:

TalkTalk shows only FTTC.

Sky only shows FTTC.

AAISP only shows FTTC.

BTw and EE only shows FTTC.

Openreach shows FTTP.

Zen shows FTTP.

IDNet shows FTTP.

Rebel shows FTTP.

Vodafone shows FTTC.

Plusnet?

Given they are a BT Group company and use BTW I don’t think it’s too hard to work out what the result will be…

Plusnet - FTTC.

In reply to a post by heathrow:

Plusnet - FTTC.

Plusnet - FTTP as they do selling FTTP

Edited by adslmax (Mon 09-Jun-25 15:46:17)

That's not what he's saying.

He's saying the Plusnet checker is returning only an FTTC available to order result. There is no FTTP based service from Plusnet available to order.

(which as we know is likely a bogus / delayed DB update issue. The whole topic of the thread 🧵)

i have simular situation, openreach website says FTTP is available 9/6/25 but BT website says its not 18/6/25 , yet Talktalk say it is available 9/6/25 and so does plusnet, but some other providers like cuckoo say no still not ava, so i have ordered with Talktalk ,

seems mad that BT and open reach are in the same pocket yet BT say no ?

Scroll up the thread and the reasons have been gone over a couple of times. If anything it demonstrates that the functional separation of Openreach and BT is working in practice.

In reply to a post by Iniltous:

Do Talk Talk and Sky show availability ( not a recommendation to use them BTW ) , AFAIK neither use BTw for their backhaul

oh whats does not having there backhaul with BTw mean in the real world ?? what am i missing if i go with TalkTalk ??

In simple terms , if Openreach provide a FTTP external network , then every ISP that wants to use it , use it on the same basis , it’s the same Openreach kit regardless of it being BT , Talk Talk , Vodafone , that’s the external network and headend, once you are at the headend , individual ISP have their own kit that connects to the OR headend to enable connectivity into their own networks…..some larger providers may have their own ‘backhaul’ in the headend exchange and they may rent space in it to other ISPs , or some businesses simply provide backhaul for ISP to use , in a similar fashion to the way BTw do (so ISP compete for consumers, and backhaul providers compete for ISPs business ) that’s those that don’t have their own backhaul .

As stated it’s a sign that the market isn’t fixed if someone other than BTwholesale get their interconnection links ready first so ISP that use that backhaul rather than BTw are in a position to offer services first , even though Openreach equipment is ready to any and all backhaul providers at the same time , not every interconnection is ready at the same time .


you can get anomalies though , BT,EE and Plusnet being the same group will use BTw , they don’t buy capacity from competitors, so to have (for example) PN offering service before EE and or BT is probably a different issue , but Sky and Talk Talk , have their own backhaul or generally will only use BTw as a last resort so if those ISP are ready first it may be their backhaul was in place before BTw

Edited by Iniltous (Wed 18-Jun-25 13:06:36)