Church and charity query

Hi,
My church has recently registered as a CIO with the charity commission and we would like to move from BT FTTC business to a suitable full fibre connection.
Wondering if there are any kind folk who could offer advice as we do t seem to fit the usual package deals. BB is pretty minimal but we do livestream stuff so need good UL speeds.
Cheers,
James

What sort of streaming do they do - is it standard live streams in SD / HD or is it 4K? How many streams at once? What else will the connection be used for? How much will be done at the same time?

If it is standard streaming then even relatively low packages would likely be sufficient. Are they currently doing the streaming on FTTC as even that would likely be able to do so in which case what can you not do on FTTC that you think FTTP will give you?

This is pretty much a "how long is a piece of string" question without a lot of detail about how the connection will be used. They could go with a business ISP on a 150Mb connection to start and make sure the ISP would be happy to upgrade if needed to higher speeds.

Thank you for all that.
We want to do full hDMI with the potential to go to 4K but we are experiencing some issues which may be due to local congestion.

A Plusnet ‘salesperson’ suggested this afternoon to a colleague no problem being a church but we (not they) need some further confirmation. Obviously they don’t do business stuff now.

A good quality stream in 4K would likely use up to around 25Mb/s. If you went for a 500Mb/s package that would have 70Mb/s upstream so plenty for a single 4K stream outgoing.

Other than that it is entirely down to what else the Internet is used for.

Also, how good is your internal LAN/WLAN connectivity? If you are streaming over wireless with a poor strength signal then the Internet connection isn't going to make any difference. If you have lots of devices on wifi then they could all be vying for the same wifi bandwidth which again could impact on streaming.

Ideally you would get an IT person in that knows what they are doing to review what your usage is, your LAN/WLAN setup and what you need going forwards. Trying to do this on a forum is going to be difficult and time consuming and likely will miss things.

I think we’ve wandered a bit off the original query which was a more specific one relating to churches and Full Fibre providers so I’ll just leave it there. Thanks for your comments.

Where has it wandered off. You want an ISP that is capable of livestreaming and other stuff. The relevance of it being a church seems beside the point for the question I understood you had asked.

So, if I am off track then what is the question?

In reply to a post by ian72:

Where has it wandered off. You want an ISP that is capable of livestreaming and other stuff. The relevance of it being a church seems beside the point for the question I understood you had asked.

So, if I am off track then what is the question?

The clue is in the query heading - church and charity. I know all about ISP's and Livestream as we have a fairly complex multi camera/video and sound mixers and encoders that I have set up I may have misunderstood you, but if you are not a church leader/treasurer then its unlikely that you will know of the challenges presented to us in negotiating with potential ISP's specifically as potentially a business or charity.

I have a sense you might want to add a further word but if there aren't any other folk who have experience from a church background then this will be my last post on this particular query.
All the very best,
James..

Hi,

Is the issue here that you don't believe that you will be offered the same deals as offered to consumers because you are a charity and your question is therefore about what ISPs might offer to you from a commercial perspective?

If that is the case then the answer will vary on an ISP by ISP basis and in the case of non-vertically integrated ISPs may depend on how their underlying infrastructure provider (Openreach being the obvious one) sees your property.

At a really simple level, if there is Openreach FTTP available then BT Business will almost certainly be able to offer an equivalent deal to the one you are on now but provided over fibre, with the option for faster speeds. Other providers using Openreach will also be able to offer you fibre but it will be at their discretion whether they offer you consumer deals, business deals or something else.

In reply to a post by meteosat:

if you are not a church leader/treasurer then its unlikely that you will know of the challenges presented to us in negotiating with potential ISP's specifically as potentially a business or charity

In this case, your church will be treated the same as any other CIO. I am a trustee of a secular CIO with a multi-million annual turnover, and previously served as a trustee of a national church body established by an Act of Parliament that is a registered charity.

Most ISPs will treat your CIO the same way as any other business, and your church will typically be treated the same as any other business premises. FTTP might attract additional construction charges, depending on the nature of the building.

You would probably be best off speaking to the SME team at a few more business-oriented ISPs, though I suspect they'll offer you their standard small-business product at the regular price.

OK, I'll give a final response much the same as the 2 that posted after you posted this. You are not different to any other business/charity. ISPs don't care that you are a church - makes no difference to them, they will give you the same deals as they give to anyone else. I don't see why you think a church is unique in getting ISP provision.

AI generated

Charitable Incorporated Organisations (CIOs) receive full access to official charity broadband rates, as they hold a registered charity number with the Charity Commission. Since a CIO is a corporate body, you can also sign the broadband contract directly in the name of the charity rather than using a trustee's personal name.
Approved Routes for CIO BroadbandParish Buying Scheme:This is the official procurement service for Anglican churches and partner denominations.They offer heavily discounted fixed-line and mobile broadband packages pre-negotiated for church infrastructure.
Major Business Providers:Large telecom providers like BT Business, Virgin Media Business, and TalkTalk Business accept your CIO registration number.You must request their specialist charity/non-profit desk to bypass standard commercial rates.
Community Fibre Hubs:Regional alternative networks (Altnets) often connect CIO-registered community spaces for free or at a massive discount.They prioritize spaces that host community projects, food banks, or public Wi-Fi.

Huge thanks - and to all who have added to my knowledge base and given me good pointers.

Much appreciated guys.
I’m pretty much sorted now with all your input.

Cheers,
James.

https://switchaid.org/charity-broadband/
https://parishbuying.org.uk/

Might be worth a try

Edited by iannewson (Thu 20-Aug-26 21:43:31)

In reply to a post by meteosat:

.

A Plusnet ‘salesperson’ suggested this afternoon to a colleague no problem being a church but we (not they) need some further confirmation. Obviously they don’t do business stuff now.

Salesperson was wrong. Plusnet dont do business broadband any more and using consumer broadband is against the rules

I manage the premises of a small charity, an Unincorporated Association. Our demands aren't high and turnover is very low. We couldn't have afforded a normal business contract. Being with Vodafone at home, I walked into a Vodafone store and asked what they could do for the charity. They offered a tariff at the same cost as I would pay for domestic premises. At the time it was ADSL.

When we temporarily opened additional premises, that didn't have a connection, they provided a mobile broadband hub at the same price as it would cost for domestic premises. When we surrendered that, at termination of the lease on the premises, I asked about PSTN switch off for our main building and they offered FTTP at the same cost as domestic. As a business they don't show upgrades on the online dashboard so I can't tell whether they would offer a high speed service at a similar price to a domestic service.

I haven't had to involve our Trustees in the negotiations with Vodafone (it was agreed at Management Meetings) but I am the listed contact on the Charity Commission website.

I think they are treating us as a small business. We have no paid staff but have more than 9 volunteers. From their website they regard businesses with less than 10 employees as small .

Many thanks for that additional info. We have a couple of phone shops in the vicinity - EE and Vodaphone I think. Hadn't thought of a shop based approach, so thanks again.
James

I am a trustee at our local Methodist Church. The Methodist Church is slightly unusual as although the UK body is a charity many local churches don't have their own charity number but function as one via the national body.

We have had a Vodafone broadband dongle under contract for some years and will be moving to their FTTP package next month via City Fibre (a long story, but it has taken them three years to sort out a post code address issue..). At no time have they ever queried whether we are a charity or business and have never demanded a charity number. We do seem to be completely on the domestic charges.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

I am a trustee at our local Methodist Church. The Methodist Church is slightly unusual as although the UK body is a charity many local churches don't have their own charity number but function as one via the national body.

It is rather off-topic, but that was never the case.

The large national charity I mentioned further up the thread was the Methodist Church; I served on Conference for ten years, so was a trustee of the national charity until much more appropriate arrangements were put into place, with the trustee body for the national charity now being the Connexional Council.

Historically, most of the local churches were exempt charities and did not have to register with the Charity Commission, but for legal purposes they were distinct from the national charity. Subsequent changes in the law have meant that essentially all local structures have had to register as charities; in many areas, this goes down to the local church level, but there are exceptions. The national custodian trustee, the Trustees for Methodist Church Purposes, holds land and buildings on behalf of the local managing trustees, and various functions are provided nationally by the Methodist Church or TMCP. The Methodist Church Act 1976 sets out the overarching legal principles and implements the provisions in the Deed of Union and the Model Trusts.

In reply to a post by dsergeant:

We have had a Vodafone broadband dongle under contract for some years and will be moving to their FTTP package next month via City Fibre (a long story, but it has taken them three years to sort out a post code address issue..). At no time have they ever queried whether we are a charity or business and have never demanded a charity number. We do seem to be completely on the domestic charges.

A lot will depend on how the infrastructure provider (Openreach, CityFibre, etc.) classifies the building they are serving. I think most churches are more likely to be classified as business premises, so you will likely deal with the SME (small and medium enterprises) team at an ISP, though this is not a universal rule.

There are a few charity-specific deals around, but there is no compulsion for an ISP to offer special rates to charities, and most seem not to.