loans, bonds and private investments, I would not do shares the goal would be an investment that would have time limit i.e. they would mature.

The idea would be they would reach a paoint when they where self funding i.e. all profits they made got put back in, they could take that funds and spend them directly or uses those funds to guarantee bonds extra

In reply to a post by Bob_s2:

What I think is need is a totally independent Fibre Local loop. The problem at present is BT own the local loop. The regulator is doing its best to open it up but as BT own it they are going to be keen to keep competition out.

I don't see that working right now. The problem is that the existing copper local loop is already doing most of what most people need it to. The only thing fibre brings to the equation is faster internet access and it's pretty clear that most people don't want that.

There is just no valid business reason for throwing away BT's local loop. That means BT won't do it but it also means that there's no money for a third party to run something alongside either.

In reply to a post by Cobra001:

loans, bonds and private investments, I would not do shares the goal would be an investment that would have time limit i.e. they would mature.

The idea would be they would reach a paoint when they where self funding i.e. all profits they made got put back in, they could take that funds and spend them directly or uses those funds to guarantee bonds extra

Lol - that didn't work very well for cable did it?

VM are still struggling to service the debt they inherited. It's what - twenty years since cable networks started being rolled out and the debt is still here. Hardly a massive inducement to investors.

they are running to make profits for shareholders.

look at either the gas or electricity grid, they turn over huge profits.

Similar example would be network rail, investment is going back into the tracks since they are no longer paying shareholders. Admitedly they will need help for he highspeed links but normzal track upgrade are going through well

investment is going back into the tracks since they are no longer paying shareholders

I can never understand why people bang on about shareholder returns affecting businesses. 5% is a fairly high dividend yield which isn't exactly extortion compared to loans and bonds. More important the existence of shareholders reduces the cost of loans as banks get paid off ahead of shareholders and hence see a lower risk. BT's weighted average cost of capital is calculated by OFCOM at about 9% so the shareholders are reducing that figure by accepting the yield they get.


Network Rail is effectively underwritten by the Government, they made 2.2bn from activities and borrowed a further 1.9bn so are not self sufficient in capital by a country mile. Corporate structure and ownership of any kind can still result in bad management and wrong investment decisions.

yea, that was for major overhaul work.

but for general improvement and small upgrade the change from rail track to network rail has been great move.

Also agree with you points on loans, hence why i also included bonds

you are forgetting bt is a private company, out there only to make money. why should they be forced to lose there local loop network.

openreachs network is operated on an equivalent basis, all providers are welcome to sell there services over it, sky not taking it up is a sky issue, not a bt or openreach one.

to be honest, openreach have done all the hard work and now isps get to sell a previously unavailable product, lets face it, no one else is willing to roll this out on a scale anywhere near openreach. no other company in this current climate would dream of investing 2.5 billion pounds.

its still very early days, we will all have to sit back and wait on the project moving forward.

me included

quite agree that its not too late, I would have just done it differntly from the start

In reply to a post by Cobra001:

quite agree that its not too late, I would have just done it differntly from the start

But there are probably good reasons why neither you nor I were in the position to do it differently .

its being rolled out full speed ahead, we are all working very hard to ensure everything runs swiftly and to target.

so as i said, we will all have to be patient in the meantime.