Anyone Recently Joined Orange on LLU?

Say, since the New Year?

Since their collaboration with BT, there are rumours that Orange are putting new joiners on non-LLU only, even when LLU is available at the exchange!.

Maybe it's only when Orange estimate that user will get less than 8 Meg. But Orange's estimates of connection speeds of lines new to them are over-cautious. My LLU line syncs at 16 Meg confirming Orange's estimate of 15.5 Meg. But my other non-BB identical line, which once sync'ed at 16 Meg with O2, is estimated by Orange at only 9.5 Meg.

I am interested in scotching or confirming such rumours.

Thats interesting, I'm thinking I may have to switch ISP in the not to distant future and was looking at alternatives...

Orange is one of only 4 LLU providers on my exchange (the others being Sky, Talk Talk and AOL) so I entered my line number into their checker...

and it turns out they estimate that despite the fact that it's an LLU line and despite the fact that I currently get 15 meg on my current line, they state that they can only supply 7.5 meg on my line.

I think it's quoting from BT Wholesale's line checker which also estimates exactly the same line speed. So a bit of a mystery there.

Yes, like everyone else, they rely on BTw's fallible database, as they have no prior knowledge of your actual line.

If the posts in this section are anything to go by it looks like they're refusing to put people on LLU even if the line supports it - a noise margin of 11-12db is high enough to support a much higher sync speed but they don't seem to want to take anyone off BT Ipstream for some reason...

Time to look at other ISP's instead I think. Pity, it looked promising. Oh well I guess thats what thinkbroadband is for!

I am sorry to pass on bad news, but I had an email from Orange today...the important bit is below

"Due to new agreements with BT, all of our customer's are due to be
migrated back to IPStream over the next 12 months. This is in an effort
to provide a faster, fairer and more stable service to our customers"

So we've all been screwed!

Jason

That seems consistent (perhaps a speeding up of timescales) with what I understood from their investor strategy at the first Everything Everwhere results presentation (available on their website) last October for the "turnaround" strategy for their Home broadband service (not referring to the merger of mobile services - which is a different segment of the presentation) which included as part of the outsourcing contract to BT:

(quote) • System implementation, customer migration and network
decommissioning over 2 years (I assume from their reported contract sign date in April 2010). They helpfully tell us the outsourcing will be "invisible to customers" so they optimistically think we won't notice!!

I think their next quarterly results are published at the end of this month, so we might find out more (in their strange marketing-speak) then?

Edited by smurf46 (Sun 13-Feb-11 14:06:02)

So they are actively discontinuing their LLU network? They do not mention that when they sell you "upto 20 Mbps download speeds" do they? Can they provide 20 Mbps speeds on ipstream? If they cannot then I have been lied to and I want out!

I have not received such an email.

Do you Sync at over 8 Meg?

Cuz greater speeds cannot be achieved on IPStream. Only 21CN enabled exchanges with WBC/WBMC (which is not IPStream) can provide up to 24 Meg speeds.

So that beggars the Q of what they are going to do with users, like myself, who Sync at 9 to 24 Meg and have had these speeds confirmed by Orange. They cannot put us on 8 Meg IPStream without violating our contracts.

In reply to a post by smurf46:

first Everything Everwhere results presentation (available on their website)

Where?

If

In reply to a post by smurf46:

the outsourcing will be "invisible to customers" so they optimistically think we won't notice

then it is impossible to put us all on (8Meg) IPStream; many of us will need to be put on 21CN WBC to retain our speeds.

I sync at 7264.

I had a message from Orange later in the day which I wasn't going to post but I will because, hey, let's face it, they are not exactly keeping us up to date with their plans.

"I have looked further into our new policy on registrations and am
pleased to confirm that when BT's Fibre optic enabled service (WBC) is
enabled in your area, currently scheduled for April of this year, you
should find that you will be moved to this service within a few months
of activation. I cannot quote actual speeds except they should be
substantially faster then ADSL2+ service your previous provider used."

So good news. I cannot see anyone being cut off from LLU if they have it and this new service is not in place.

In reply to a post by jason_a69:

when BT's Fibre optic enabled service (WBC) is enabled in your area,

A peculiar statement! WBC is not Fibre optic; it is BT's implementation of ADSL2+. Fibre optic is FTTC, sold by BT as BT Infinity. Must have been written by a non-technical marketeer

However, the upshot of it must be that Orange will only migrate users from LLU when they have at least an equivalent technology to offer. The only downside will be that we will hindered by BT's laggy IP Profile DLM scheme,

The presentation press pack is on this page (in the zipped PDF download at the top): http://everythingeverywhere.com/2010/09/28/everythin...

You need to find the Home Broadband page (around page 54 on the PDF and called Home: turnaround strategy). I find it interesting they don't appear to report publicly for the next two quarters (nothing good to report?). At one point there was also the oral presentation (now appears to have been removed) which had a Q&A which I recall mentioned that Orange at that time had no intention to provide FTTC services, (although they suggested their BT contract "allowed for" it). I agree with your other comment about about marketeers: the presentation makes clear they are driven by the triple play concept (mobiles/mobile and landline broadband) and repaying the parent company loans. We're with a mobile company, with a broadband sideline. (I know, how can I read such drivel: I need to get a life!! Just to try and persuade you I have some sanity left, I skimmed it - didn't take long!).

I did take the "invisible to customers" and the 24 month period to mean that they could try to co-ordinate this with the upgrading to 21CN exchanges. My local exchange has been WBC enabled (21CN) for a year but What's my Ip and line checkers still show me as on the Orange LLU service (with a a pitiful speed, which I suspect is due to the billions of errors on a decrepid local loop). We're also due for a local cab upgrade to fibre according to the BT wholesale checker, in July. So I could "wait and see".

Edited by smurf46 (Mon 14-Feb-11 00:44:45)

I was LLU'd 10/3/10 and am enjoying 13-15meg download speeds.

After reading these posts I thought I'd ring Orange to see if they could say what was going on. It seems that Orange will only migrate customers to IPStream if their exchange hasn't been 21CN enabled with WBC/WBMC, but apparently should automatically transfer them onto 21CN once its available at the exhange.

I suppose I'm quite lucky as my exchange has already been 21CN'd. Orange have told me my speed should go up by a meg or two once I'm moved over. They don't however have a clue as to when I will be migrated over (no suprise there!). Mind you, Orange CS reckon I'm only getting 7-8 meg download speeds so was suprised when I replied "And the rest!" I did prewarn them that if my speed did drop I will not hesitate in taking my broadband custom elsewhere.

Netty

In reply to a post by jinger:

It seems that Orange will only migrate customers to IPStream if their exchange hasn't been 21CN enabled with WBC/WBMC, but apparently should automatically transfer them onto 21CN once its available at the exhange.

As I surmised earlier as the only way for Orange to honour its contract .Even that statement is not good enough. What about if your exchange is still 20CN, but Orange has LLU there from which you get Syncs in excess of 8 Meg?

In reply to a post by jinger:

Orange have told me my speed should go up by a meg or two once I'm moved over.

How can they possibly justify this? It's still ADSL2+.

In reply to a post by jinger:

Orange CS reckon I'm only getting 7-8 meg download speeds

What does it say on Your Account on their Website?

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

I have not received such an email.

Do you Sync at over 8 Meg?

Cuz greater speeds cannot be achieved on IPStream. Only 21CN enabled exchanges with WBC/WBMC (which is not IPStream) can provide up to 24 Meg speeds.

So that beggars the Q of what they are going to do with users, like myself, who Sync at 9 to 24 Meg and have had these speeds confirmed by Orange. They cannot put us on 8 Meg IPStream without violating our contracts.

Having read this thread, i rushed and checked my Orange Email account having never used it to see if i had recieved the said email.
I hadnt ....i enjoy a sync of 19mb down and 1.3 up so if i were to be put back on the IP stream then they would be in breach of thier own T&C's.
Hopefully nothing will come of this as this is the only LLU provider at my exchange!

Any chance of an ISP post response to this?


I'm curious also as I joined Orange about 6 months back because my exchange (Toll Bar) is LLU enabled - yet I was and still am appearing to be on the IPStream product.

As for the question earlier in this topic regarding them breaching any sort of advertisement - as the OP mentioned, it does say up to, so effectively you'd still be preverbially screwed.

In reply to a post by BorgMaster:

As for the question earlier in this topic regarding them breaching any sort of advertisement - as the OP mentioned, it does say up to, so effectively you'd still be proverbially screwed.

No, then the advert would still be considered misleading if it can be shown that some lines were capable of higher Syncs, well towards 20 Megs, but not one line was put on a Sync higher than 8 Meg.

I was thinking of moving from Be to Orange. However, if I would be put back on an IPStream line, then I dont think it would be worth it, unless I can get the usual 12Mb with that too...

IPStream is 8 Meg max.

If you are on O2 LLU legacy, I'd stay on it. Orange's FUP is only 40GB and there is uncertainty whether new joiners are put on LLU.

I'll think I'll stick be Be then