Orange LLU to BT WBC 21CN

Thought this would be of interest for the Orange LLU to BT WBC 21CN change over.

http://www1.orange.co.uk/changes/

21CN Overview http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchanges/21cn_ove...

Check when your exchange will have BT WBC 21CN with the info data sheet which looks to be kept upto date.

BT WBC 21CN https://www.btwholesale.com/pages/static/Community/B...

http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/adslchecker.welcome

http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange_search

http://www.speedtester.bt.com/

http://www.speedtest.net/

Edited by deleted (Tue 19-Apr-11 18:54:47)

I was migrated to Orange WBC at 11 PM last night. (BTW: It is not FTTC as OP headed). Here are my initial results fot the record.

Initial WBC connection at nighttime with Down NM tweaked low:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 18075 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.2 db
Noise Margin 4.1 db 15.2 db

Compared with similar LLU connection:

Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.5 7.0
Attn(dB): 26.0 14.4
Pwr(dBm): 17.2 12.4
Max(Kbps): 19365 1300
Rate (Kbps): 18721 1295

WBC connection at daytime with NM untweaked:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 14999 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.2 db
Noise Margin 9.5 db 15.0 db

Compared with similar LLU connection:

Down Up
SNR (dB): 10.4 7.1
Attn(dB): 26.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 18.7 12.4
Max(Kbps): 20140 1316
Rate (Kbps): 15589 1304

BT Speedtester:

Download speedachieved during the test was - 12513 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :14998 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 13232 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 13.85:22.06:64.09 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

The results of this test will vary depending on the way your ISP has decided to use these traffic classes.

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
736 Kbps

0 Kbps 888 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

>Upload speed achieved during the test was - 736 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 888 Kbps

I am a bit disappointed with Up Sync and have lost about 0.5 Meg Down, but I shall keep an eye on it over the learning period.

Hi XRaySpeX, thanks for the correction info, I have changed my post accordingly (deleted FTTC).

I did read your post saying that you are for the chop today, the Orange LLU to BT WBC 21CN change over. I hope the ADSL2+ up line speed improves after the 10-day training period, we had it good on Orange LLU.

I'm being moved over from LLU to WBC as I type this from my phone. It'll be interesting to see what I get speed-wise too. I spoke to Customer Services at Orange yesterday as I'd received the email last week to say I'm being moved over and they say I'll get an estimated speed of 14-19 meg download once the initial 10 day "training" period is over. I told them if I get less than 15 according to my router them I'll be leaving as I've been enjoying just over 15 meg speeds on LLU.

XRaySpeX - can you keep us updated please as to how your speed pans out?

Jinger

What are your router stats on LLU?

Progress after 2 days on WBC (untweaked):

Down Up
SNR (dB): 9.1 16.2
Attn(dB): 26.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 0.0 12.8
Max(Kbps): 18064 888
Rate (Kbps): 15323 888

IP Profile for your line is - 13519 Kbps

Dunno why Down Power = 0 always!

Compared with previous LLU connection:

Down Up
SNR (dB): 10.4 7.1
Attn(dB): 26.0 14.2
Pwr(dBm): 18.7 12.4
Max(Kbps): 20140 1316
Rate (Kbps): 15589 1304

So, I've lost just about 300 Kbps (1.7%) only Down Sync & throughput, but a whopping 416 Kbps (32%) Up Sync

I have also noticed the occasional loss of about 1 Meg throughput during 10-11 PM peak; never experienced that on LLU. Probably congestion on BT or Orange's circuits.

LCP went down @ 6:25 this AM for over 3 hrs. until I forced it to reconnect but with lower Syncs.

Had to reboot router to regain good Syncs as above & clear error counts.

EDIT: It's been up & down all day like the proverbial wicked lady's pantaloons, but it seems to be trying to up the Up Sync. Never was like this the 1st 2 days

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 21-Apr-11 15:05:33)

Ugh! It's still at it! It can LCP disconnect within minutes; think most it's been up is 4 hours.

Speeds all over the place. Down Sync between 12 & 15 Meg; Up Sync between 500 & 1200 K. It's erroring galore. It was never like this on LLU.

If it doesn't stabilise within the 10 days, I'm off!

At the moment it's:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15323 kbps 1208 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.5 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 8.8 db 4.4 db

IP Profile for your line is - 13519 Kbps

but how long will it last?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 22-Apr-11 16:56:20)

My last recorded stats on LLU were on 20/4/11:

D/L 15806 kbps
U/L 1172 kbps
Attenuation 24.3 db 7.7db
Noise 9.8db 7.7db

10 mins after going onto WBC 21/4/11:

D/L 16670 kbps
U/L 888 kbps
Attenuation 23.1 db 11.3 db
Noise 8.8 db 12.6 db

Today I've been connected for nearly 16 hours with no change (so far!)

D/L 16907 kbps
U/L 888 kbps
Attenuation 23.2 db 11.3 db
Noise 8.5 db 13.6 db

My latest speedtest


These speedtest figures are almost identical to what I was getting whilst on LLU

Jinger

According to BT's speedtest:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 16777 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4000-21000 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :16907 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 888 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 14916 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 21.49:20.58:57.93 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 722 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 888 Kbps

So my download speed is certainly better than it was on LLU but my upload is lower but whether it's the same when my 10 days is up is anyone's guess!!

Jinger

In reply to a post by jinger:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 16777 Kbps
IP Profile for your line is - 14916 Kbps

These results are suspect! The throughput is > IP Profile and almost = Down Sync.

I hestitate to try and help as your knowledge is much better than mine, but . . . I think LCP is similar to the PPP Server fault shown on Livebox. I had similar symptoms on Orange's LLU: up for a few minutes to a few hours, though it steadiy got worse over a couple of weeks. They did what they called a "line rebuild" which cured it, but it took a couple of further weeks for speeds to recover after all the resyncs.

I never found out what the line rebuild was, but on subsequent faults I've found BT's engineers to be much quicker than the old Orange contracted engineers who took a week to do anything. I found it needed to get through to level 3 technical support, and best time when you might get straight through to them, if you can bear it, is 9-5 on working weekdays. Sorry.

Edited by deleted (Fri 22-Apr-11 19:38:17)

Thanks, I know what LCP/CHAP is; essentially it's the thing that recognises you and logs you into the ISP's network.

It's self evident that when problems appear after something's changed then the cause is that change. I've have changed nothing at my end; Orange has changed their end. So, I won't be wasting time and a phone call for Orange script-monkeys to tell me otherwise and check my filters, wiring, test sockets, etc. I'd rather wait out the 10 days, write to them and demand my MAC.

Well, it's still at it! Frequent discons & loads of errors; often within minutes of each other; think most it's been up is 6 hours.

Over the past few days it seems to be trying to increase the Up Sync and failing; it has varied between about 400 - 1200 Kbps. Now it has settled down at a constant 444 Kbps (half what it started at for 2 days):

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15323 kbps 444 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.5 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 9.1 db 30.4 db

IP Profile for your line is - 13519 Kbps

but still the discons persist.

I've never had a problem with the IP Profile, dispite reports that it is flaky.

Have tried diff router, filters and test socket w/out any effect, just to eliminate my end.

Let's hope it's the Bank Holiday that is delaying things; I'll see when they get back to work.

EDIT: Funny, since reassembling everything to back to what it was, had no discons nor errors over 3 hours. Coincidence?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 25-Apr-11 18:06:58)

My router is now showing:

D/L 14584kbps
U/L 1164kbps
Atten 23.1 db 11.4 db
Noise 11.6 db 5.5 db

and it's been connected for 68 hours

The BT Speedtester shows

Download speed achieved during the test was - 13210 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4000-21000 Kbps
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :14584 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 1164 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 12867 Kbps
The throughput of Best Efforts (BE) classes achieved during the test is - 15.77:26.09:58.14 (SBE:NBE:PBE)
These figures represent the ratio while sententiously passing Sub BE, Normal BE and Priority BE marked traffic.

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 961 Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 1164 Kbps

So since my last stats check my D/L has gone down but my U/L has gone up. My D/L speed on WBC is currently lower than it was on LLU but there's not much difference on my U/L from LLU to WBC.

Jinger

In reply to a post by jinger:

Download speed achieved during the test was - 13210 Kbps

Don't trust this! Do a TBB speedtest like last time.

Just done a TBB speed test



Router stats are

D/L 14584 kbps
U/L 1164 kbps
Attenuation 23.1 db 11.4 db
Noise 12.5db 5.7db

Have now been connected for 90 hours

Jinger

That's more like it!

No errors or discons for last 6 days

A few days ago, Up Sync recovered to 888 Kbps but Down Sync much worsened to below 12 Meg.

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 11866 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 15.1 db 14.6 db

IP Profile for your line is - 10469 Kbps

Now 10 day training period is over, will be complaining to Orange, particularly as it now can't even hold the 15.3 Meg Sync under WBC (similar to LLU as was) it was well able to maintain in the 1st few days. Doesn't make sense!

Can't even tweak NM to get more than 17.7 Meg.

My router stats are the same as they were in my last post but the TBB speed tester shows



Not impressed as BT speed tester shows IP profile for line is 12867 kbps which is less than when I was on LLU.

I would like to consider leaving Orange but I have an awful feeling I'm still tied into my contract for a few more months Hmmm, wonder if I can get out of it as they haven't managed to improve my speed like they told me they would once I went over to WBC???

I feel a phone call happening shortly ....

Jinger

Well have just come off the phone from Orange - I was correct in thinking I am still tied into my contract which is until the end of September. Complained about getting lower speed and lower IP profile since being on WBC. Was put through to Tech Support who advised me that I "need to give them more time to allow the speeds to go up" and that the young man assured me that I "will be getting great speeds and not to worry, everything will be fine soon". He also said that if my speed hadn't got better by 15/5/11 to ring back because I had been a great customer since 2002 they will do everything they can to help me.

I asked him why hadn't the speed been sorted out within the 10 day "training period" and he said that because I was on a new network from the exchange to my home, it takes longer than 10 days for the speed to settle down and that was why he was advising me to ring back on the 15th if my speed hasn't got better. I told him my speed had been pretty settled over the past week and I doubted it would get better and he tried to assure me again that it would!

Methinks I've been fobbed off (again)!

Jinger

Methinks I've been fobbed off (again)!

You have. And with total hog-wash.

Edited by burakkucat (Wed 04-May-11 18:19:36)

In reply to a post by burakkucat:

Methinks I've been fobbed off (again)!

You have. And with total hog-wash.

Oh I know I have. I'm getting used to it now - everything they tell me is taken with a sack-full of salt nowadays!

They must've flagged something up after my call yesterday as my internet was down for almost 2 hours this morning and when I attempted to get onto the internet this afternoon I had to reset my router. I'm now surfing a bit faster. My latest speed test is



D/L 16920 kbps
U/L 1151 kbps
Atten 23.2db 11.4db
Noise 8.7db 5.4db

IP Profile for your line is 14928 kbps

Which is better than yesterday. How long will it stay like this I wonder???

Jinger

Well, Up Sync has improved to an acceptable 1.1 Meg, but for last 2 weeks Down Sync cannot even maintain 12 Meg:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 11251 kbps 1107 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 15.2 db 9.2 db

IP Profile for your line is - 9000 Kbps

Have today escalated issue to Orange and awaiting them looking into it. By admission on their Support line recorded announcements they are experiencing issues on their new WBC connections.

Since the migration, which was completed on Sunday, I've not been able to connect to the internet at all. The Livebox has one stable light (which is the power indicator) and the other light (under the @ sign) just keeps flashing. Rang the support line yesterday and they said that an engineer would check the connection but it was still the same this morning.
Have to get onto them again after I get back from work.

I'm thoroughly annoyed with Orange.

I joined them in April 2010 with the promise of speeds of 8.5 meg, being on their LLU service. I actually achieved speeds in the region of 10.5 meg reliably.

A fortnight ago I noticed that my router connection speed had dropped to 4 meg but I was only achieving about 1.2 meg at best and thought I had a fault with my router. It turns out that I had been reconnected to the IPStream and my line profile was stuck at 4 meg.

After phoning them they told me that they had taken their LLU stuff out of the exchange and the best I could hope for now was 6.5 meg and that they would reset my line profile accordingly. My router is now connected at 5 meg but my speeds still suffer, down to about 800k some evenings which means that I can't possibly play Xbox live whilst other family members are surfing the internet.

My exchange doesn't even appear on the bt wbc 21n file either so it doesn't look like my speeds will ever increase. I can't believe Orange promised me speeds above 8 meg when I signed up then cut it barely a year later with me still stuck in contract with them.

Worse still, the only LLU in my exchange now is TalkTalk and they require you take out phone line with them, but we recently changed from BT to Sky and can't cancel the contract with Sky without being charged even if I wanted to jump from Orange.

No cable services available locally either because the council won't let Virgin dig up the roads. I live in a town of over 12,000 people and can't believe that BT won't install Infinity or whatever here when they are enabling it in smaller more rural exchanges serving only 1,500 people (according to their race for infinity campaign).

I see on here that people are reporting that their internet went slower for a while but it was because they were being shifted across to WBC and are getting 13ish meg downloads now... is there any possibility that this will be happening soon for me?

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-May-11 20:03:37)

Sounds like breach of contract on Orange's part!

In reply to a post by piratewolf:

is there any possibility that this will be happening soon for me?

Impossible until exchange 21CN'd.

Post your current router stats and the LLU ones if you have them?

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 5088 kbps 448 kbps
Line Attenuation 32.0 db 18.0 db
Noise Margin 8.9 db 25.0 db

^Current stats above

I'm using a Netgear DG834PN and the SNR is only very slightly tweaked at the moment (telnet'ed).
I don't have any saved logs of previous connection results as I never had a problem before, all I know is that I had the noise margin tweaked to about 4.5db when I was connecting at 10500ish kbps and was downloading files at 7800kbps back then. My upload speed was 988 kbps (+/- 10kbps) from memory.

The reason I chose Orange last year was because of the promised high speed and the fact it was LLU'ed. Samknows still says that my exchange (Penkridge) is Orange enabled, although Orange have informed me otherwise and when I checked on the Orange members page it says that my estimated connection will be 4.5meg now, although the estimated speed when I first joined still says it was 8.5meg.
The tariff I'm on still says "up to 20 meg", but if I choose the "upgrade" options it will only let me go "up to 7 meg".


BT blurb from one of the links supplied earlier:
"For Telephone Number 01785xxxxxx on Exchange PENKRIDGE
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.
Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 4.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 3.5Mbps and 5.5Mbps.
Your exchange is planned to have ADSL2+ by 30th September 2011. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 8Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 5.5Mbps and 12.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 5Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 4Mbps and 6Mbps."

My BT test result:
Download speedachieved during the test was - 3577 Kbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 600-7150 Kbps.
Additional Information:
Your DSL Connection Rate :5088 Kbps(DOWN-STREAM), 448 Kbps(UP-STREAM)
IP Profile for your line is - 4000 Kbps

Edited by deleted (Wed 18-May-11 21:07:05)

Don't believe there is much point in tweaking your NM on IPStream.

In reply to a post by piratewolf:

Your exchange is planned to have ADSL2+ by 30th September 2011.

That''s when your exchange might go 21CN and Orange might put you on WBC.

I've just about had it with Orange, after all those years of good LLU.

The 1st week of WBC wasn't too bad; my D/S Sync was an acceptable 15.3 Meg. However, for the last 4 weeks of WBC I can barely sync @ 12 Meg; today it is 11.5 Meg, after a consistent 15-16 Meg on LLU. They appear to be holding my NM high @ 15 DB.

The phone support, even escalation, is useless. Trying to talk with blokes with broad Northern accents who gobble their words so I cannot understand what they are saying. When I can understand them, they just sprout contradictory nonsense, like:

• "That's all your line is capable of!".
• "The max speed that your line is capable is 12 Meg".
• "The max speed of your line is 7 to 17 Meg" ignoring that this is a range not a max.
• I tracked the above statements down to my BT Availability Checker record; an estimate which they are quoting as gospel as if it were factual. BTW: My estimated speed there has been reduced since I was on WBC to 12 Meg from the 15 Meg it showed before and which still shows on my non-BB 2nd line.
• They ignore the fact that I got much higher speeds on LLU, even when pointed out that they are both ADSL2+.
• They are unable to distinguish between Sync & Throughput and use them interchangeably.
• My knowledge of the physical capability of my line was false.
• "Ofcom decides the Speeds you can get"!

All in all they are obviously ignorant of Broadband technology and can only sprout statements devoid of any evidential or scientific basis.

However, a few hours ago, out the blue, they caused a re-sync and dropped my NM to 12 dB and I am now getting a more respectable:

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 13136 kbps 1187 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 11.9 db 5.6 db

IP Profile for your line is - 11589 Kbps

I can't believe it took 4 weeks for the DLM to start acting properly. There weren't any unexpected discons or errors in the meantime. It must be connected with my phone calls.

While one swallow does not make a spring, I shall wait a few days to see how it pans out.

It's a shame Orange left the LLU market as it has reduced competition for the rest, but I guess it wasn't big enough for Sky, TalkTalk, O2 and Orange. As is the often the case with the big companies, when things go well the price is cheap and the service is good, when things go poorly the customer services are just equipped to make excuses such as the ones you have heard.

I was with Orange LLU, had about 9-10meg of speed with 1meg upload.

Now its 5meg with 448 upload, back to ipsteam, been with Orange since Nov 09, which makes this month, the 18th month, so I'm out of contract, so I moved to TalkTalk LLU.

I too was with Orange LLU and for well over a year I was plagued by intermittant loss of broadband. Despite numerous phone calls, new Liveboxes and other equipment I still experienced loss of broadband. This happened up to 4-5 times a day!
Once the LLU equipment was removed everything changed - I have never experienced any loss of broadband since - so I am one of the few who are very pleased with the changeover.
As for speeds - much the same as before for Downstream - around 6000 Kbps but Upstream reduced from about 500 Kbps to 375Kbps. I can put up with that!!

I don't know why but I think you can't just assume that your line will behave the same with every bit of different exchange kit. ADSL is a complex animal with the various handovers from one bit of kit to another, and DLM isn't an exact science. I'm another customer that was stuck on a 2268/245 synch, on a line that synced previously on Orange LLU at up to 5.5Meg/645kbps, but without any change in the ADSL (always ADSL2+, no change in NM, att. or error accummulations) and despite what Orange said was a pair swop and line rebuild nothing changed, and they could do nothing about it, with all the guff quoted extensively above. I learnt that patience and focusing on what matters (can you use the internet in the way you need to, adapt or move Provider to one who doesn't have the problem) helps rather a lot! In my case I was lucky with fixed wireless to avoid the vagaries of ADSL.

Even when I sought advice on changing provider, the general advice was "will probably be the same"; but hey presto upon the WBC change line went up to a sync of 5Mpbs (and up to 1Mbps download after a couple of days): no change on anything else. Since then it had a brief interlude of up over 6 Meg and has now settled at 5.25 for the last fortnight (with NM settled at 6). And Orange have I think changed from being a technical-driven to a marketing outfit: it's what happens, the world changes. I really wouldn't though have written to customers saying we're improving your broadband: they are entitled to take you literally. Disgraceful though for the poor souls who were on up to 20 Meg LLU and now have only IPStream at their exchange - more than carelessness on the part of Orange.

Edited by deleted (Mon 23-May-11 17:13:42)

Hi, It�s nice and quiet in here everything must be running smoothly with the migration to 21CN WBC.

This week, one month ahead of schedule, BT enabled 21CN WBC at my exchange and yesterday, I got the email from Orange informing me my broadband connection will switch next week to WBC. Will let you know how things go.

http://help.orange.co.uk/orangeuk/support/personal/5...

http://www.btwholesale-inspire.com/press-release/pre...

well i got switched from my excellent LLU where i had the best fastest connection that i have ever had IE (a rock solid 10 meg download speed even tho Orange said my line only reported it was capable of 7 meg & could upload at 100kbps +) to the new improved Orange network lol last week & my Internet has been dreadful since no disconnects but only 1.8 mbps download speed wise & 46kbps ish up load. The WBC 21CN RFS date is set for the 31/08/2011 on my exchange according to Sam Knows so I am guessing that I have been switched to IPstream (btw how do i tell what im am on),will I be switched to the WBC 21CN when it is enabled or be stuck on this rubbish IPstream forever now, I only renewed my contract & took out the Unlimited phone deal as well just over a month ago so am now worried i will be stuck with this for the next 18 months & the possibility that the FUP will be only 5gig a month is also a massive worry as that is nowhere near enough IMHO. can anyone possibly allay my fears or should i be on the phone to Orange trying to get my MAC & try to get them to cancel my contract due to this change for the worse ?

Orange Broadband & Anytime Calls.
Sync 8128 kbps Downstream, 448 kbps Upstream.
Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ wireless N 150 Router supplied by Orange

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Jun-11 10:38:18)

I would like to add that when i spoke to the person at orange who rang to get me to get me to renew my contract & take out the phone deal as well i did ask if there were any plans to take me off the LLU because the service was excellent as i would not renew if that was the case & was assured that would not happen, I am feeling pretty foolish now for believing them I can tell you.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Jun-11 10:30:02)

In reply to a post by musicmate:

I am guessing that I have been switched to IPstream (btw how do i tell what im am on)

Post your router stats, incl. Line Mode, so we can tell you.

BTW: If those stats in you sig are your old stats, it doesn't look like you were on LLU before, but IPStream. What is your exchange? When did you join Orange?

In reply to a post by E7er:

Hi, It�s nice and quiet in here everything must be running smoothly with the migration to 21CN WBC.

Wrong! I'm still running at 13.2 Meg on WBC, down from 15.6 on LLU and Orange have refused formally to do anything about it. Now considering using my MAC

the stats in my sig are what the router is saying now. & I have been with Orange for about 2 years my Exchange is Armthorpe my old router stats before the change over were.

Connection speed Downstream 10517 kbps Upstream 1021 kbps
line attenuation Downstream 30 db Upstream 7db
noise margin Downstream 8db Upstream 7db

not to sure what you mean by line mode sorry where do i find that.

new stats the router is saying now are.

Connection speed Downstream 8128 kbps Upstream 448 kbps
line attenuation Downstream 27.2 db Upstream 15 db
noise margin Downstream 7.6 db Upstream 22 db


I have run the Thinkbroadband speed test on a few occasions & it is so inconsistent with the results I am guessing because the line is still in the training period, tbh if the downspeed improved to close to 8meg i could live with that but what would bother me more is the FUP if that was as low as some say at 5 gig a month then it would be of just about zero use to me with my usage which i think would range from 40-60 gig a month.hope this helps.

latest speed test below but this did record a higher speed earlier today tho.





The BT Checker says
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.

Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 7Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 6Mbps and 8Mbps.

Your exchange is planned to have ADSL2+ by 31st August 2011. Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 14Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 8Mbps and 18.5Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 14Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 8Mbps and 18.5Mbps.

Edited by deleted (Sat 11-Jun-11 20:31:55)

Yes, you were on LLU ADSL2+, but were only getting only 2/3rds your line's capability. Hopefully you will be able to better that when you go to WBC.

Now, you are on BT IPStream ADSL Max; Upstream = 448 kbps proves that. Also your Down attn. decreased by 3 dB.

The slow throughput you see is commonly due to high contention on Orange's (& others') IPStream

Line or Connection Mode is the standard of ADSL being employed and is shown as ADSLn, G.DMT or G.992.x but not all routers report it in their Web interface.

In reply to a post by musicmate:

I would like to add that when i spoke to the person at orange who rang to get me to get me to renew my contract & take out the phone deal as well i did ask if there were any plans to take me off the LLU because the service was excellent as i would not renew if that was the case & was assured that would not happen, I am feeling pretty foolish now for believing them I can tell you.

Hi, they have put you on 8 Meg MAX that is congested like O2 access.
Wait for when your exchange goes live with WBC, you should then get the email from Orange stating they are migrating you to 20 Meg WBC.

cheers for the info guys no thoughts on this rumoured 5 gig FUP ? with IPstream.

In reply to a post by musicmate:

no thoughts on this rumoured 5 gig FUP ? with IPstream.

That's it! Just a rumour; never anything in writing!

In reply to a post by E7er:

Hi, It�s nice and quiet in here everything must be running smoothly with the migration to 21CN WBC.

I'd be interested to know: is anyone on Orange WBC now getting a 6db or less NM? Mine was a rock steady 6db for a month after the transfer, but following a single routine router reboot has now risen to 12db which hasn't reduced after over a week of connection. Nothing else indicates a line problem. It makes a material difference on my 48db attenuation. The BT speedtester parameters remain the same. Is 12db now their standard?

I'm wondering if if might be a panic response to reduce those instances where those with good lines are getting a default 2Meg profile where the BT equipment can't set a line profile, but everyone has been affected?

The good news is that Infinity is RFS at my cab next month, and all this messing about makes it more attractive. I can't get an answer though when ringing for a MAC code, and they don't make promised call-backs!

Edited by deleted (Sun 12-Jun-11 14:56:22)

Nowhere near! I've had:

• 1 week @ 9 dB => 15 Meg Sync, then
• 4 weeks@ 15 dB => 11.5 Meg Sync, then
• 3 weeks @ 12 dB => 13 Meg Sync (as now)

I don't think the IP Profile on WBC is sticky like on IPStream. Mine is always 88% of Sync.

Write for a MAC.

Hi, Orange migrated my connection from LLU to WBC 21CN last night, note the exchange DSLAM has changed from BDCM=Broadcom to IFTN=Infineon (Huawei) and the sync Upstream Rate is lower from 1131 kbps down to 875 kbps. My download speed is about the same as before the migration and the ping has improved.

WBC 21CN
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11864 kbps
Upstream Rate: 875 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 8.9 dB (Downstream), 14.7 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.2 dB (Downstream), 15.7 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.7 dBm (Downstream), 11.7 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}
-------------

Orange LLU
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11626 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1131 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 10.0 dB (Downstream), 5.9 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 30.3 dB (Downstream), 14.9 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 18.4 dBm (Downstream), 12.0 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {BDCM} Specific: {0x9662}
----------------

The WBC 21CN download speed is about the same as before the migration and the ping has improved.

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1341903882.png

http://www.pingtest.net/result/42040645.png

Edited by deleted (Wed 15-Jun-11 14:03:10)

Just you wait! You have to survive the training period; I didn't!

Your Up Sync should go up tho'.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 15-Jun-11 14:11:22)

If the training drops people, then an ISP can get things tweaked assuming the line is stable.

I don't know what you mean by "drops people", but not with Orange. I guess that BT does the actual tweaking and Orange don't want to trouble BT by asking.

It's taken me over 2 months asking them to do exactly that and only yesterday did I get my 1st sensible response from someone who actually understand BB technology. Still waiting! More later, I hope!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Just you wait! You have to survive the training period; I didn't!

Your Up Sync should go up tho'.

It is 20 days since I got connected to WBC and I kept the router on continuously for 17 days and it seemed to be stuck with the low upstream speed 875Kbps. So I switched-off the router overnight and afterwards the upstream speed increased to 1166Kbps, also the Internet IP Address has changed from 2.24.xx.xxx to 2.27.xxx.xxx

Switched router off overnight and I get�
2Wire 2700HGV router stats.
01/07/2011 time 08:15am
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11650 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1166 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 6.6 dB (Downstream), 6.4 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.2 dB (Downstream), 15.9 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.7 dBm (Downstream), 12.5 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}
Internet IP Address: 2.27.xxx.xxx

Switched router off overnight again and get�
02/07/2011 time 10:15am
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11593 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1170 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 9.1 dB (Downstream), 6.5 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.2 dB (Downstream), 15.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.5 dBm (Downstream), 12.4 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}
Internet IP Address: 2.27.xxx.xxx

Router switched off overnight and get�
03/07/2011 time 09:45am
Protocol: G.DMT2+ Annex A
Downstream Rate: 11690 kbps
Upstream Rate: 1178 kbps
Channel: Interleaved
Current Noise Margin: 9.0 dB (Downstream), 6.4 dB (Upstream)
Current Attenuation: 31.3 dB (Downstream), 15.8 dB (Upstream)
Current Output Power: 20.7 dBm (Downstream), 12.2 dBm (Upstream)
DSLAM Vendor Information: Country: {0xB5} Vendor: {IFTN} Specific: {0xBE71}
Internet IP Address: 2.27.xxx.xxx

http://whatismyipaddress.com/

I think I got the self-service no need to bother Orange, now getting about the same sync speeds as on Orange LLU.

Lucky you having a 9 dB NM. Tho' I think your line is capable of about 2 Meg more.

I Just returned from Holiday and got the drewaded Email from Orange...Looks like i have now been switched to the 21CN..Stats as follows

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 17951 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 24.5 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 3.9 db 14.6 db


Noise margin is tweaked with DGTEAM firmware.

whilst i was on holiday the power tripped and the routed has been off for most of the time of the switchover, have lost some upload and a little download...will see how it goes.

In reply to a post by vf12vf:

I Just returned from Holiday and got the drewaded Email from Orange...Looks like i have now been switched to the 21CN..Stats as follows

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 17951 kbps 888 kbps
Line Attenuation 24.5 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 3.9 db 14.6 db


Noise margin is tweaked with DGTEAM firmware.

whilst i was on holiday the power tripped and the routed has been off for most of the time of the switchover, have lost some upload and a little download...will see how it goes.

Hi, on Orange WBC after the 10 day training period I got the same downstream speed as with Orange LLU, but the upstream speed stuck at 875 Kbps and did so for a further 7 days. So I switched the router off overnight and the next day the upstream speed went up to 1166 Kbps.

Edited by deleted (Sat 16-Jul-11 13:01:07)

Do you know what the NM that Orange set for you?

How much Down Sync have you lost? The Up Sync should recover, but it took nearly a month for mine to move away from 888 Kbps.

Will be interested to see how your stats settle after the training period.

After formally complaining to Orange that I had lost over 2 Meg Sync on WBC, they unnecessarily sent out the wrong sort of Openreach engineers last week to check the line at my end to find nothing wrong here, as expected. They agreed that the problem needed to be looked at at the exchange but they said other engs. needed to do this. So I waited over a week for Orange to react to their report and when they hadn't I sent them an email last night to progress my complaint.

Then, "magically", when I came down today I found the NM had been lowered to 9 dB and my Sync had increased by nearly 2 Meg to 15 Meg, just 0.6 Meg shy of LLU .

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15036 kbps 1199 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 db 14.5 db
Noise Margin 8.8 db 6.0 db

IP Profile for your line is - 13265 Kbps

Here's hoping it holds.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Do you know what the NM that Orange set for you?

How much Down Sync have you lost? The Up Sync should recover, but it took nearly a month for mine to move away from 888 Kbps.

Will be interested to see how your stats settle after the training period.

No Sorry, the DGTEAM Firmware has been set lower for a good year - 18months since going live with Orange, my up sync was 1300kbps so lost around 30%. Down has stayed reasonable, usually it was around 18500 - 19000kbps.

Hopefully things wont get any worse as no other LLU suppliers at my exchange so im stock on 21cn network for the forseable future.

Looks like I'm being retrained after 3 months, having written to them to complain.

It just re-synced with 6 dB NM Fast Path to give me 16.8 Meg, over 1 Meg better than LLU : )

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 16806 kbps 1208 kbps
Line Attenuation 26.5 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 6.1 db 6.1 db

IP Profile for your line is - 14827 Kbps

Shows Orange can do it if they try!

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 18760 kbps 1203 kbps
Line Attenuation 24.5 db 14.4 db
Noise Margin 2.3 db 5.9 db

My stats have improved recently, i have also tweaked the noise margin, as when i looked at my stats it was only 0.6db on the downstream, this is more managable and does leave a little bit if needed.

this is all in the space of a week or so since being changed over.