In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

In our house, we have a BT "I-plate"

http://www.shop.bt.com/products/bt-iplate---bt-broad...

Close up photo of the "I-plate":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/NTE5_i...

Edited by glossywhite (Mon 27-Feb-12 01:49:30)

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In our house, we have a BT "I-plate"

Lucky you but irrelevant! I-Plates are entirely yours. They are fitted on the consumer side of the master and nothing to do with BT. BT introduced removable front-plates just so that consumers may do their own wiring without impinging on BT. (I-Plates are a waste of money, being either unnecessary or can be done by DIY.)

In reference to www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm:

Please note that the master socket is the demarcation point between BT's equipment and your own. Therefore you must not tamper with any equipment or cabling before this point.

Despite your unlawful attitude to this, I would be remiss not to draw OP's attention to the facts of the matter. It is then his decision what he does about it.

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

It can be dangerous as (AFAIK) the wires 2 and 5 will be connected to a large capacity battery supplying 48 volts and enough current to kill you IF someone called the number whilst you had hold of the wires.

I totally agree that even a school boy would be capable of doing the job (and probably better)

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Feb-12 13:08:17)

27dB attenuation should run faster than that, but given previous performance am willing to suggest that a banded profile has been applied to the line.

I.e. the line may be perfect, just needs Orange to request a reassessment of the line at the BT Wholesale level, due to changes in the wiring.

If you extension had wires to pins 2,3 and 5 then reconnect it leaving pin 3 unconnected. Pictures are a great aid if what we've said makes no sense.

The people who care are the people who get charged when they follow this advice without being aware of the risks, that if there is a future fault the engineer may decide the tampering was a cause.

Electricians are some of the worst for wiring phone lines, using split pairs or bell wire. So hate to think what some people will get up to, and given the pictures we've seen over the years many people have zero experience with wiring, be it telephone or mains.

I-Plate effect can be achieved for zero cost, within the rules by removing the wire on pin 3 of the removeable faceplate

In reply to a post by Mike_Williams:

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

It can be dangerous as (AFAIK) the wires 2 and 5 will be connected to a large capacity battery supplying 48 volts and enough current to kill you IF someone called the number whilst you had hold of the wires.

I totally agree that even a school boy would be capable of doing the job (and probably better)

I doubt that ringing current could kill anyone (70-90v ~ @ 17-20Hz). Were that the case, CW1308 & CW1311 cable wouldn't have such thin insulation on the inner cores. I've had ringing current shocks numerous times, and it's nothing more than a painful buzz to the fingers. Off hook current is around 20-25mA, and the 48-50Vdc drops to around 9-12Vdc when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc. The exchange doesn't deliver the hundreds of amps its PSUs generate, directly down the line to the CPE. Were that the case, the wires would heat up and melt, when shorted. They're current limited, and also BABT regulated, as they wouldn't allow hazardously high voltage levels to exist inside cheap consumer kit that is held close to the face, if that were the case.

Also, were the current that high, then BT wouldn't have introduced "REN" or "Ringer Equivalence Number".

More info here (I used to order boxed FULL of these, when I was 19, at BT's expense): http://www.sinet.bt.com/

Edited by glossywhite (Mon 27-Feb-12 17:30:28)

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

Off hook current is around 20-25mA, which drops to around 9-12v when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc.

How does current drop to voltage? They are diff beasts. It's high amps that harm.

Anyway statement does not scan!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

Off hook current is around 20-25mA, which drops to around 9-12v when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc.

How does current drop to voltage? They are diff beasts. It's high amps that harm.

Anyway statement does not scan!

Never mind. Have a nice day.

While correctly functioning wiring should be safe to handle a proviso of caution is best, otherwise you have people doing DIY nightmares and thinking they can repurpose the twisted pair to carry other services, e.g. a 12V DC power supply they've rigged up themselves.

Any thing electrical conducting could be carrying a mains voltage, e.g. internal extension wiring that is in a conduit shared by the mains loop, and a bare conductor present.

So yes a standard phone line working fine should be perfectly safe, short of it being applied directly to the heart muscle, but as ever with electrical devices, safe practices are best observed.

Thanks for all your replies

Once sorted out with my extensions it sounds like a good idea to chase Orange to resolve their side, hopefully this will get my speed to where it should be.

The extensions are via Cat 5e cable to other MK master sockets wired to all six pins, and carried out by an electrician. (photo forthcoming hopefully tomorrow, but see attached info from MK:
http://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplu...

Looking online I've seen several different ways to wire up extensions, all recommending removing the bell wire (pin 3). This has included wiring 2 pins, 3 pins and 5 pins.

Trying to avoid a storm of comments What do you think is the best way to reconnect the extensions and can I still use the master sockets as extensions (bearing in mind 4 months ago I was getting 5mb)?

Xrayspex asked about the BT speedchecker
"Your BT speedtest looks peculiar. Did you run the the ADSL & FTTC Diagnostic, not the beta? (it's failing for me at the mo') "
It was the ADSL & FTTC diagnostic but the second part of the test, added below for info:
"We have identified that you have additional services enabled on you broadband line, please click continue to run advanced service tests"

Thanks for your help.