Slow orange (again)

Hi guys,

I've seen a lot of this on the forums but thought I'd ask for some advice...

My broadband is half the speed it was last year from 6M to 2.8M (but upload speed from 0.5M to 0.9M) , connection drops once a week and they've disconnected my 2nd line.
Orange tech is a nightmare, its taken more than 2 months of saying the same thing over and over to get nowhere!

So far:
- 3 new routers (both livebox and net gear)
- New filters and cables
- Only now does Orange recongises its a line fault!
- Tech 2 / 3 has not resolved the problem and of course doesn't call back when arranged (i.e. a waste of time)
- Tried to escalate the problem with Customer Service Manager but not availalbe / no call back
- No change

Here are my stats, is it reasoable to get a higher speed and what do you recommend to sort this out once and for all?

Thanks for your help

Connection mode : ADSL2
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 8.9
Attenuation (dB) : 27.0 (this seems to have crept up)
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 3403
Upload (kbps) 1080

Exchange: http://www.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/CLKLG
about 500m as the crow flies

oops, correction:

Connection mode : ADSL2
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 8.9 (this seems to have crept up)
Attenuation (dB) : 27.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 3403
Upload (kbps) 1080

In reply to a post by crg:

Connection mode : ADSL2

You sure there is no "+" after this?

Can you post both Up & Down stats?

Thanks for replying

Livebox only gives the following info: (unless you can advise).

ADSL firmware version : A2pBT009c1.d17d
Connection mode : ADSL2
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 9.2
Attenuation (dB) : 27.5
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 3543
ADSL status : Connected [0]
Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 3543 1075

Just connected the netgear and it gives this:

Connection: Auto, (ADLS2+ gives similar results)

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 25 15 0 50 46 00:00:30
LAN 10M/100M 562 612 0 1193 344 00:03:27
WLAN 11M/54M/150M 145 15 0 104 9 00:03:32

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 4024 Kbps 1147 Kbps
Line Attenuation 27.6 dB 11.7 dB
Noise Margin 9.0 dB 5.7 dB

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Feb-12 11:03:58)

You should be getting 17 Meg on ADSL2+ and even 12 Meg on ADSL2 @ 6dB NM.

However you are on 9dB NM, so you would get about a Meg less.

Did you take these readings from the test socket behind the faceplate of the master? If not, do so.

Have you removed ring wire? Swapped filters? How many extensions?

HI XRaySpeX,

Thanks for getting back to me.

There's no test socket as the master is an MK modular telephone master (BT connected the incoming line to this for me)

The filter's new and I'm only running the router and telephone from the same filter / socket

I've got 4 extensions though and the ring wire looks like its connected, I'll do some surgery and remove the extensions and ring wire and get back with test results tonight if I can.

Thanks

In reply to a post by crg:

HI XRaySpeX,

Thanks for getting back to me.

There's no test socket as the master is an MK modular telephone master (BT connected the incoming line to this for me)

The filter's new and I'm only running the router and telephone from the same filter / socket

I've got 4 extensions though and the ring wire looks like its connected, I'll do some surgery and remove the extensions and ring wire and get back with test results tonight if I can.

Thanks

Hi. Can you get hold of a master socket (modular type) NTE-5 or similar? Disconnect your master socket, reconnect A+B wires to the NTE-5 screws/IDC connectors (it should be the blue pair; two wires - blue with white rings, white with blue rings) and then connect microfilter to test socket on that, and test again.

BACK OF NTE-5:

http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/large/NTE5_BT_r...

Regards.

Edited by glossywhite (Sun 26-Feb-12 22:10:06)

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

Hi Guys,

Removed the extension and pluged into the (MK) master socket and got the following:

Port Status TxPkts RxPkts Collisions Tx B/s Rx B/s Up Time
WAN PPPoA 16160 24190 0 8607 39240 00:13:25
LAN 10M/100M 24365 16539 0 38138 8365 00:14:02
WLAN 11M/54M/150M 125 0 0 21 0 00:14:06

ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 6776 Kbps 1155 Kbps
Line Attenuation 27.1 dB 11.5 dB
Noise Margin 9.1 dB 5.9 dB

Definite speed increase! Though given what you've said I'm thinking is this all I can get?
But what gets me after doing all this work, the speed is the same as what I was getting 4 months ago without any changes to my wiring!

Didn't think there was an issue with the MK socket as it was BT that connected the incoming wires into it... Is it a simple case of speaking to Orange (my line rental is with them) to get an NTE5 socket installed or will that cause more problems?

Just did a BT speedtest, its enhanced check is still reporting my line is performing poorly...

1. Assured Rate Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
5.96 Mbps

0 Kbps 0 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 5.96 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 0 Kbps-0 Kbps .
Additional Information:
Assured Rate IP profile on your line is - 0 Kbps

2. Video Service Quality Test: -provides background information.

Video Service Quality Test Failed

Your service was found to be performing poorly. Please raise a fault with your service provider, stating that the BT Performance Tester tool indicates poor service throughput performance.

Thanks

Edited by deleted (Sun 26-Feb-12 23:07:33)

How did you remove extensions? Where were they connected to? Did you remove ring wire?

What was it we said that makes you think this all you can get?

In reply to a post by crg:

Is it a simple case of speaking to Orange (my line rental is with them) to get an NTE5 socket installed or will that cause more problems?

You have to ask Orange as your line rental is with them and they have to place an order on BT Openreach, but I'm not sure they are as amenable as BT on this. That's an advantage of having line rental with BT Retail.

Your BT speedtest looks peculiar. Did you run the the ADSL & FTTC Diagnostic, not the beta? (it's failing for me at the mo')

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

In our house, we have a BT "I-plate"

http://www.shop.bt.com/products/bt-iplate---bt-broad...

Close up photo of the "I-plate":

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9c/NTE5_i...

Edited by glossywhite (Mon 27-Feb-12 01:49:30)

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In our house, we have a BT "I-plate"

Lucky you but irrelevant! I-Plates are entirely yours. They are fitted on the consumer side of the master and nothing to do with BT. BT introduced removable front-plates just so that consumers may do their own wiring without impinging on BT. (I-Plates are a waste of money, being either unnecessary or can be done by DIY.)

In reference to www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm:

Please note that the master socket is the demarcation point between BT's equipment and your own. Therefore you must not tamper with any equipment or cabling before this point.

Despite your unlawful attitude to this, I would be remiss not to draw OP's attention to the facts of the matter. It is then his decision what he does about it.

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

It can be dangerous as (AFAIK) the wires 2 and 5 will be connected to a large capacity battery supplying 48 volts and enough current to kill you IF someone called the number whilst you had hold of the wires.

I totally agree that even a school boy would be capable of doing the job (and probably better)

Edited by deleted (Mon 27-Feb-12 13:08:17)

27dB attenuation should run faster than that, but given previous performance am willing to suggest that a banded profile has been applied to the line.

I.e. the line may be perfect, just needs Orange to request a reassessment of the line at the BT Wholesale level, due to changes in the wiring.

If you extension had wires to pins 2,3 and 5 then reconnect it leaving pin 3 unconnected. Pictures are a great aid if what we've said makes no sense.

The people who care are the people who get charged when they follow this advice without being aware of the risks, that if there is a future fault the engineer may decide the tampering was a cause.

Electricians are some of the worst for wiring phone lines, using split pairs or bell wire. So hate to think what some people will get up to, and given the pictures we've seen over the years many people have zero experience with wiring, be it telephone or mains.

I-Plate effect can be achieved for zero cost, within the rules by removing the wire on pin 3 of the removeable faceplate

In reply to a post by Mike_Williams:

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Against BT Regs; master sockets are their property.

But OP can probably get BT to fit a modern NTE5 for free to regularise it, if he asks nicely.

BT "regulations"? Who actually cares or pays attention to that bureaucractic guff? Noone. The average member of TBB knows 10x more than any BT engineer will ever know about the finer details of ADSL. They're just mass-trained workmen, fitting sockets, testing the line and driving away. There's nothing special, complex or intricate about fitting another master socket, and if it has "BT" on the front and passes the exchange SALTS tests (or whatever they use these days) then noone will ever know (or care). It's two screws, a 470K OOS resistor and a 2.2uF cap - hardly complex.

Have you seen some of the bodge jobs BT Openreach do on installations? I'd be ashamed to leave an installation in such a state as some of them do. People used to take pride in their workmanship; now it's just anyone hired off the street, looking to make a wage to pay the bills.

It can be dangerous as (AFAIK) the wires 2 and 5 will be connected to a large capacity battery supplying 48 volts and enough current to kill you IF someone called the number whilst you had hold of the wires.

I totally agree that even a school boy would be capable of doing the job (and probably better)

I doubt that ringing current could kill anyone (70-90v ~ @ 17-20Hz). Were that the case, CW1308 & CW1311 cable wouldn't have such thin insulation on the inner cores. I've had ringing current shocks numerous times, and it's nothing more than a painful buzz to the fingers. Off hook current is around 20-25mA, and the 48-50Vdc drops to around 9-12Vdc when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc. The exchange doesn't deliver the hundreds of amps its PSUs generate, directly down the line to the CPE. Were that the case, the wires would heat up and melt, when shorted. They're current limited, and also BABT regulated, as they wouldn't allow hazardously high voltage levels to exist inside cheap consumer kit that is held close to the face, if that were the case.

Also, were the current that high, then BT wouldn't have introduced "REN" or "Ringer Equivalence Number".

More info here (I used to order boxed FULL of these, when I was 19, at BT's expense): http://www.sinet.bt.com/

Edited by glossywhite (Mon 27-Feb-12 17:30:28)

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

Off hook current is around 20-25mA, which drops to around 9-12v when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc.

How does current drop to voltage? They are diff beasts. It's high amps that harm.

Anyway statement does not scan!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by glossywhite:

Off hook current is around 20-25mA, which drops to around 9-12v when off hook, due to loop detect circuitry and balancing circuits etc.

How does current drop to voltage? They are diff beasts. It's high amps that harm.

Anyway statement does not scan!

Never mind. Have a nice day.

While correctly functioning wiring should be safe to handle a proviso of caution is best, otherwise you have people doing DIY nightmares and thinking they can repurpose the twisted pair to carry other services, e.g. a 12V DC power supply they've rigged up themselves.

Any thing electrical conducting could be carrying a mains voltage, e.g. internal extension wiring that is in a conduit shared by the mains loop, and a bare conductor present.

So yes a standard phone line working fine should be perfectly safe, short of it being applied directly to the heart muscle, but as ever with electrical devices, safe practices are best observed.

Thanks for all your replies

Once sorted out with my extensions it sounds like a good idea to chase Orange to resolve their side, hopefully this will get my speed to where it should be.

The extensions are via Cat 5e cable to other MK master sockets wired to all six pins, and carried out by an electrician. (photo forthcoming hopefully tomorrow, but see attached info from MK:
http://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplu...

Looking online I've seen several different ways to wire up extensions, all recommending removing the bell wire (pin 3). This has included wiring 2 pins, 3 pins and 5 pins.

Trying to avoid a storm of comments What do you think is the best way to reconnect the extensions and can I still use the master sockets as extensions (bearing in mind 4 months ago I was getting 5mb)?

Xrayspex asked about the BT speedchecker
"Your BT speedtest looks peculiar. Did you run the the ADSL & FTTC Diagnostic, not the beta? (it's failing for me at the mo') "
It was the ADSL & FTTC diagnostic but the second part of the test, added below for info:
"We have identified that you have additional services enabled on you broadband line, please click continue to run advanced service tests"

Thanks for your help.

In reply to a post by crg:

The extensions are via Cat 5e cable to other MK master sockets wired to all six pins, and carried out by an electrician. (photo forthcoming hopefully tomorrow, but see attached info from MK: http://www.mkelectric.com/en-gb/Products/WD/logicplu... {<-Needs space here} )

Looking online I've seen several different ways to wire up extensions, all recommending removing the bell wire (pin 3). This has included wiring 2 pins, 3 pins and 5 pins.

They can't all be Masters, can they? There is a diff of having a Ring Capacitor or not?

You only need pins 2 and 5 connected; see http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm

In reply to a post by crg:

It was the ADSL & FTTC diagnostic but the second part of the test, added below for info:
"We have identified that you have additional services enabled on you broadband line, please click continue to run advanced service tests"

Can you post the 1st part of the test (Best Effort & Upstream)? The Assured Rate and Video tests are pointless.

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 27-Feb-12 23:23:26)

First part of BT speedchecker test results

1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
5.99 Mbps
0 Kbps 7.15 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 5.99 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 5.98 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
1.09 Mbps
0 Kbps 832 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed
Upload speed achieved during the test was - 1.09Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Spoke to orange, they're saying I should get 11Mbps on the line but their line checking software is down again , they still haven't connected my second line either.

Yes all my extensions are MK master sockets (they have the yellow ring capacitor on them) but no I don't know why the electrician did it this way (special offer at wickes? ) Got a photo but not sure how to add it / link to this post....

Thanks

Are those stats with extensions discon'ed? Cuz I think having yellow ring capacitors in the "slaves" to be detrimental. Hence your previous slower speeds.

Yes that's right but what's still confusing me is that with all those masters connected as extensions I was still getting 5M before it slowed down.
So with all things even and removing the extensions shouldn't, I now be getting in the region of 10M?

Thanks

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Are those stats with extensions discon'ed? Cuz I think having yellow ring capacitors in the "slaves" to be detrimental. Hence your previous slower speeds.

2.2uF (sometimes 1.8uF) ringing caps are supposed to be one per line, feeding a max REN value of 4. The cap is in series with a 470k "Opt out of service" resistor, which allows the time domain reflectometer @ the AXE to detect whether or not handsets are plugged in, from what I recall. Having more than one of these res-cap circuits in parallel is going to cause some kind of imbalance, no matter how minor. At the very worst, this would act as a crude high-pass filter.

I've drawn a (rather crude) circuit, for those now "in the know":

Master/Secondary socket wiring

Edited by glossywhite (Thu 01-Mar-12 15:19:24)

Thanks for all the advise so far, thought I'd give an update

- Reconnected extensions using only 2 wires = 6.7M speed
- Replaced extensions with secondaries = 6.7M
- Reconnected Livebox (was using orange netgear) so I could try and get my 2nd line reconnected = 2.5M (0.2M DN)
- Spent 70mins with orange technical (awful indian call centre, awful line quality!) then spoke to really helpful and sensible UK Customer Services Manager: possible issue with "DLM" in exchange / server detecting error on line that has down graded my speed, advised keep Livebox on for 72hrs. If no change they'll replace the livebox (again).
- For anyone interested, I was advised Orange will be discontinuing 2nd line in near future but no date for this yet
- Looking at another provider with line rental, BE looks good any other suggestions?


Stats from livebox if anyone's interested....

Connection mode : ADSL2+
Type : Fast
Noise margin (dB) : 6.2
Attenuation (dB) : 27.0
Attainable download rate (kbps) : 3353
ADSL status : Connected [0]

Downstream Upstream
Rate (kbps) 3080 201

In reply to a post by crg:

- Reconnected extensions using only 2 wires = 6.7M speed
- Replaced extensions with secondaries = 6.7M

Are you saying that doing either of these things made no diff to your Sync Speed on the Netgear? What about the other stats, did they change?

Xray, thanks for your continued help...

With the removal of the extensions I was getting 6-7M, reconnecting with 2 wires and then replacing the extension sockets with slaves kept the speed at 6-7M (stats as post of 28/2).

Can't give you any further from yesterday as it was from the livebox.

New update, came back from work and internet is down (live box is flashing fast and slow) and my telephone is down. Not happy :'(!

Working up the energy to call orange again, meh.

Crp your post sounds awfully familiar. Prior to about last November I was experiencing decent speeds at some points 15Meg download ..Come Jan a few things started going bad:

- Consistently slow maximum speed of approx 3 megs download, 0.5-1meg upload all times of day (I'm on ADSL2+)

- Slow flashing light on livebox, the only workaround to get onto the internet was turn on the router with the ethernet line out, once the lights all turned green then insert the ethernet cable. Even then I have to 'repair' the local area connection.

- Orange sent a replacement livebox, which is of the older model type

- An event on my BT line meant that I was without phone/internet for 3 days, of which I was told by BT that this problem would have affected broadband speed prior to the line going dead (it was at this point that I started getting suspicious about the consistently slow speeds)

With respect to all of the above I do not think it is a hardware setup on my side and truly belive this issue falls into oranges/BT's lap. Are these slow speeds being imposed? Has anyone else experience these similar events recently?

Thanks for the post Peeps,

Seems we're all getting fobbed off by Orange technical....

I've now been without a land line for 3 days, orange home phone fault department did a simple line test and confirmed "its definetely on their side" with faulty wiring in the exchange! and as of wednesday, orange were getting a quote to replace faulty equipment

I've been assured that once the line is back my broadband should be working at full potential - after 12 weeks hastle I can only hope! Time to claim for a refund I think

Hello peeps,

Sorry to hear about your issue, please can you drop me a Private Message with your details and I will get this escalated. Can you include a contact telephone number and someone will call you back.

Please let me know whether you actively use the 2nd line (VoIP) service.

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

Please let me know whether you actively use the 2nd line (VoIP) service.

Hi Gavin,

I got to say I'm glad this was brought up because it did cross my mind whether or not these my speed issues might be associated with me using the second line because:

A) I indeed use my 2nd line regularly, and I am aware Orange has made a concerted effort to disuade me from using this - I've had reps trying to move me onto a different packages, emails which threaten to diactivate the 2nd line during a short period of inactivity. This makes me think that dropping my speed is just another tactic to 'persuade' me to 'move-on'?

B) That the move to ADSL2+ has meant a drop in speed because I still use the 2nd line i.e. a physical hardware limitation - This, however, I belive is not the case because I have already experienced faster speeds whilst using the second line.

You'll have to forgive my suspicions Gavin, but you've registered at a time when all of these problems are surfacing...What can you tell us about users still actively using the second line and its effect on their 'service'?

Hello peeps,

My question on 2nd line (VoIP) question was in regard to what router could potentially be made available to you, as you mentioned in a post use of 2nd line. Only the Livebox supports 2nd line.

The 2nd line (VoIP) when in use will use some of your speed.

The offer of assistance still stands if you want me to PM me your details, just like I have offered to other customers across the forum.

A belated welcome to this Forum.

I hope you are able to help these Orange users who are having issues with their BB. The phone support is useless; they have no technical knowledge of BB, do not listen to the customer, are unintelligible, do not apply their brains and can only follow scripts. Is this because they are divorced from the technicians who really know, BT Wholesale?

It took me 3 months last year to get Orange to resolve an issue with my Sync Speed when you switched me from LLU to WBC and that was only by writing formally to you.

Hello Crg,

Please can you send me your details including contact number and I will get someone to call you back. I can see this issue has been going on for some time and I want to see how we can resolve this for you.

Best Regards

Thanks XRaySpeX,

Sorry to hear about your issues last year, but hopefully all is well with your service now.

I am here to offer help to the customers who post on the forum, who need some extra help with fixing their issue for whatever reason.

Having read some of the posts that you have commented on, a few of the cases seem to be a little more complex e.g. line stats, extns, etc., than the majority that do get resolved. As well as fixing an issue, it is just as important to take learnings from these customers and put them back into the service.

Regards

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

Having read some of the posts that you have commented on, a few of the cases seem to be a little more complex e.g. line stats, extns, etc., than the majority that do get resolved.

Most of the cases where users are having problems concern either speed issues or discons issues. This is normal and no more complex then any other ISP. The few remaining cases with Orange are where the "ownership" of the line or BB has been hijacked by one or other of the ISPs involved.

Thought I'd post an update on where I am

� 13 weeks since reporting to Orange my disconnects and slow broadband speed
� 6 weeks no 2nd line
� 13 days no broadband, no landline
� 10 days chasing orange to fix my landline and finally arranged a sat visit
� Waited 8am - 1pm (appointment was confirmed twice) but no one turned up
� Now told no appointment was made with BT and they had actually visited Thur & Fri without my knowledge, now BT want to visit on Monday
� 3 hours since complete loss of faith
� Trying to arrange a new appoint. that doesn't clash with work or cost 0.5 - 1 day of holiday leave or pay but will they actually turn up?

I did pm Gavin and got level 3 customer services rep looking after my issues which is helpful but feel there's a complete loss of dispute / problem resolution and management by Orange, I'm also doing all the chasing (calling at least 3 times a week) but see no end to this marathon

Loss of faith is the best description of how I feel to a frankly lamentable effort by Orange. I now feel the best way to retrieve 13 weeks of hastle is to write a letter to a third party, which for a communications company is quite shocking and frustrating.

Can I ask someone to forward the best contact address for Ofcom (assuming that's the best way to resolve this) as I only have mobile internet this weekend

Thanks for all your help

In reply to a post by crg:

Can I ask someone to forward the best contact address for Ofcom (assuming that's the best way to resolve this)

I don't think Ofcom looks at individual customer complaints.

Best/Only way forward is follow Orange's formal Complaints Procedure and then escalate to their ADR body if, and when, you reach deadlock.

Hello Craig,

I have spoken to the escalation team, and I can only apologise regarding the BT appointment, your issue will be managed through to the end by this team.

I have asked that an internal complaint be raised on your behalf, but you are still welcome to do a separate one yourself.

I will be monitoring the progress until completed to your satisfaction.

Regards

If you are having to take leave to have someone around and no-one appears then it is not good.

Keep a diary of all your contacts, and once finally fixed, chase Orange for compensation. If won't be massive, but unless people chase them then the systems won't every change.

Ofcom tend to only log complaints, and only if thousands are affected do anything, so if you have time log the issue, but don't expect a lot.

Andrew

Hey guys, thanks for all your help. Thought I 'd report back on how things have gone and ask if you think my connection is now ok.

� BT connected my landline about 2 weeks ago without having to visit the house, appraently they had to replace a "PCB" in the exchange
� Orange reset the line's SNR but received erratic speeds ranging from 4Mb to 50k!
� In comparing the livebox (needed for 2nd line) and orange's netgear there was a 50% reduction in speed with the Livebox. Livebox also kept disconnecting and stating "PPP server down" but restarted after factory reset.
� Orange reported slow speed to BT and arranged another appointment, I took time off work on monday for BT engineer to confirm Orange had "capped the line" at 4MB, then took 1 hour to get orange to uncap it. BT confirmed my master socket, road junction box and main road junction box were ok.
� Actual download speeds stable at 4Mb but router stats state 8-9Mb
� Livebox disconnects again and cannot reconnect (flashing warning symbol) so using Netgear full time. Orange will send a brightbox but means loss of 2nd line (will have to use an alternative)
� Download speed has been creaping up to 8-9Mb - stats below

Router stats:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 9495 kbps 1107 kbps
Line Attenuation 32.0 db 15.6 db
Noise Margin 3.1 db 6.0 db

BT speedchecker:
1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.
Download Speed
7.96 Mbps
0 Kbps 21 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speed achieved during the test was - 7.96 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 4 Mbps-21 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 8.38 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.
Upload Speed
953 Kbps
0 Kbps 832 Kbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 953Kbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 832 Kbps

Do you think this is reasonable?

I must say this has been a saga and the only thing stopping me going straight to Virgin has been this forum and lately daily calls from Steve a L3 customer services agent from Orange (thanks Gavin).

Thanks

In reply to a post by crg:

� BT connected my landline about 2 weeks ago without having to visit the house

You mean they reconnected it? You already had a BT line.

In reply to a post by crg:

Line Attenuation 32.0 db 15.6 db

In doing so they seem to have made it 5 dB longer

Nevertheless you still be getting over 14 Meg Sync esp. with 3 dB NM.

EDIT:However, you have seen significant improvement since you started here: ). Depends whether you'll settle for that. Orange seem now to have profiled your connection correctly. Are the extensions still removed? Did they fit a NTE5?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Fri 06-Apr-12 14:25:07)

Thanks for the reply Xray,

Yes you're right they Reconnected the line. My extensions are still connected (2 wires as suggested). The BT engineer did query the master socket but said since its been working for so long it must be ok (9 years now)...and didn't make any changes .

At this stage I'm just ensuring the line is stable and I'm getting a reasonable speed for my line but in the back of my mind I'm still expecting the line to drop.

Thanks for your help.

Worth trying with extensions isolated as before, to see if that could account for the missing speed and thus exonerate Orange ?

I am getting 2.5mbs but my line should be able to take 3 times that can anyone help me , I am a newbie so please go easy on my if I get anything wrong.


Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.1(G.DMT)
Data Rate Information:
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 288 (Kbps.)
Downstream 2272 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 27.0 dB 31.9 dB
Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 31.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 10.8 dBm 16.6 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 504 36
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 270 11
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 398 0

might be better to start your own thread so this isn't overlooked.

You have a 2M fixed speed service rather than a variable rate MaxDSL or similar service.

It would do 7616/448 or similar if it was on the right product.

The clue to the 2M fixed speed (apart from the 2272 downstream sync with high SNR margin) is the 288 upstream speed with a high SNR margin showing it could easily do 448.

Hi Phil,

thanks for your response.

Please can you tell me how you worked out the following ?

"It would do 7616/448 or similar if it was on the right product."

Start a new thread and not hijack this.

Line Attenuation 18.5 dB 31.5 dB

ie short enough to sustain full sync speeds on MaxDSL (7616/448 with interleaving on most kit)

Hi all,

Thought I'd complete the circle and finish off the post.

Took XRaySpeX's advice and removed the extensions - no change in speed
Replaced all master sockets with secondary and reconnected - no change

Though on a good point I''ve been getting stable speeds of 8M for a while now as noted below so happy!

Thanks for all your help and replies, especially XRaySpeX, you've been great!.

Lets hope Orange can now sort out my contract.... and take my advice, avoid level 1 & 2 technical at all costs!

Upstream 1176 (Kbps.)
Downstream 9895 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication:
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.0 dB 2.8 dB
Line Attenuation 16.9 dB 29.5 dB