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I have been switched over to WBC CN21 since just before Christmas & the DownStream Connection Speed has been very good with the router remaining connected for over 500 hours between any reconnects but my UpStream Connection Speed has been stuck at 444kbps all the time could my line have a problem that only affects the UpStream Connection Speed ? also when i try to run the BT performance test it fails every time now on the upstream test. if anyone can shed any light on this it would be most appreciated.
my Latest router stats are.
my exchange is Armthorpe SLARM
Connection Speed 17343 Kbps 444 Kbps
Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation 25.8 dB 15.2 dB
Noise Margin 2.8 dB 30.2 dB
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jun-12 11:03:01)
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You are probably on Interleaved mode. Can you confirm via TELNET i/f to router?
Usually BTW's DLM limits its Up to 888 K with Interleaved but sometimes to only 444 K. Fast Path is not so limited and you can get about 1.2 Meg.
EDIT: Think its that high Up NM that is damping your Up speed. Your Down Speed is lower than expected; I get over 20 Meg on that sort of attn.
All you can try is ask Orange to change it.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 25-Jun-12 12:17:17)
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hi ray cheers for your reply. I dont seem to be able to Telnet into my router is it supported on the Netgear DGN 1000 that Orange has supplied, I have no idea why the NM is so high on the upstream as I know it was not like that before the changeover & i did some maintenance on my neighbours router the other day & it syncs at 1020kbps which is what mine did at one time before Orange decided to dump LLU, I have no extensions & have gotten the same test results when plugged in to the main socket behind the face plate so I am at a complete loss to explian it.
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jun-12 12:46:11)
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Probably not but it was only to confirm my belief.
Why haven't you been given a BrightBox which does give this info?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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I dont think they were supplying the Brightbox at the time of my change to WBC as I only remember reading about it afterwards.
Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Jun-12 12:49:23)
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Just to update you all, Orange contacted me yesterday & did what they said was a reset of my line, which has had a massive impact on my upstream sync now instead of 444kbps its now jumped to 445kbps lol, it still seems there is a fair bit of noise on the upstream tho even with no extensions skybox or alarm attached & the BT performance tester still errors every time when trying to do the upload test
my latest router stats are:
Connection Speed 15553 Kbps 445 Kbps
Downstream Upstream
Line Attenuation 25.8 dB 15.2 dB
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 29.5 dB
I am wondering if it is worth trying my old Netgear DG834G v3 Router to see if that gives any different results, But I am a little worried that if I start messing about changing routers & rebooting a few times it will destroy my downstream sync & raise the Noise margin as it does tend to take a while to recover. Any thoughts on what to try next would be very much appreciated.
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jun-12 15:11:57)
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it still seems there is a fair bit of noise on the upstream Do you mean noise or Noise Margin? NM is a tolerance into which noise may rise and is initially set by Orange. If you really mean "noise", where do you hear/see it?
There is no harm in rebooting a few times as long as you don't do it frequently.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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I ment noise margin Ray sorry does the fact that they say they did a reset of the line mean I have to enter into the line training period again ?
Edited by deleted (Wed 27-Jun-12 15:38:09)
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Well I have changed over to my old Netgear DG834G v3 Router
the Router stats are now.
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15319 kbps 444 kbps
Line Attenuation 28 db 7.5 db
Noise Margin 6 db 2147483647 db
now I am more confused Upstream Line Attenuation now 7.5 so that looks better but N/M 2147483647 db has to be an error surely.
Edited by deleted (Fri 29-Jun-12 19:43:01)
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The DGN1000 looks more realistic for those particular stats. A DG834G v4 would be better.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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Again many thanks for you help Unfortunately Ray I don't have access to one of those routers to try it, I have now changed back to The Netgear DGN1000
My Latest router stats are:
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 16451 Kbps 444 Kbps
Line Attenuation 26.0 dB 15.3 dB
Noise Margin 5.4 dB 31.1 dB
the the only really thing I can see that is different is, that the Line attenuation on the Upstream has gone back up to 15.3 from 7.5 not sure why that happened, so it looks like the line reset has had no noticeable affect to the upstream Noise Margin & also I still can not complete any of the BT performance tests I have tried to run which TBH I find a little strange does this point to a fault on the line ?, Anyway My contract should be up in about 2 months & although I have been pretty happy with my Orange Broadband & Home Phone, if this Upstream problem can not be solved it is making me wonder if I will be prepared to renew it again as its starting to annoy me as I am spending more time looking at router stats than doing anything else :{
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the the only really thing I can see that is different is, that the Line attenuation on the Upstream has gone back up to 15.3 from 7.5 not sure why that happened That's cuz the DG834 v3 is reporting it incorrectly.
You know you can believe the DGN1000 cuz Down Attn approx. = 2 x Up Attn.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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With the DG834G v3 can you try and TELNET into it ( http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/netgeardg834_interleav... ) and see if you can find out about Interleaving. I don't know the TELNET results of the V3 but you may also be able to see a more reliable UP Attn. from it.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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I see well that clears up that for me cheers Ray, I keep hoping Orange will offer to send me one of the new Bright boxs so i can answer some of your other questions about whether I am on fast path or Interleaved for sure maybe Gavin will join in with his help :}
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unfortunately Ray I have now returned the v3 to my nephew who was kind enough to let me try it.
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Hi musicmate,
Your upstream sync issue sounds exactly like mine.
The (hopefully) good news is that I spoke to Gavin today and he thinks they have now found the reason for this problem...
He mentioned being aware of the issue for other customers not just me - and that it's to do with a "cap" having been placed on our upstream NM when we were on the 8meg ipstream product before being regraded. Apparently they were previously not aware that this cap could be carried over upon being regraded to ADSL2+.
The fact that we both seem to have a stuck ~30db upstream NM would also seem to me to substantiate that we do have the same issue.
I wouldn't mind betting we will both see this cap being removed in the next few days...
Certainly I will report back here if and when mine gets fixed.
And I hope that's a bit of useful info at least.
Moz.
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it's to do with a "cap" having been placed on our upstream NM when we were on the 8meg ipstream product before being regraded. Apparently they were previously not aware that this cap could be carried over upon being regraded to ADSL2+. Figures! 
It's so obvious they should have realised ages ago when they saw ADSL2+ converts reporting 444 K Up Sync with high NM.
Indeed I wonder whether it just applies to ADSL Max coverts. During days 4 - 6 of my upgrade from LLU ADSL2+ to WBC ADSL2+ I had 444 K Up Sync @ 30 dB NM.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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It's so obvious...
Have to agree with you there. I can only presume that due to the nature of the issue, it being upstream only etc. is why it's been overlooked. Like I said in my own thread, I wasn't that bothered about the upstream speed.. And look how long the OP has been living with it... 7 months!?
Add to that the fact that L1 support can't even spell ADSL... and it's no wonder the issue hasn't come to light sooner!!
By the way X-ray, another interesting snippet for you... Gavin is working on the next release of firmware for the Bbox! It's ready for beta testing apparently... I said I'd be up for that, maybe a swift PM in his direction might be in order? 
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Hi Mozzerr Capped I had been saying this to them for a while but nothing ever came of it, I guess it was because I was in the minority & they just did not think it was that important, seeing as you are in contact with Gavin put me forward as a tester for the new BBox please (BTW i dont have one yet maybe one day).Anyway Fingers crossed something will get done about the upstream now, good luck with yours & thanks for your reply.
Edited by deleted (Wed 04-Jul-12 09:32:11)
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Hi, see what this BT wholesale line checker says for you broadband upstream line speed.
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.Teleph...
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according to that is says.
Your exchange is ADSL enabled, and our initial test on your line indicates that your line should be able to have an ADSL broadband service that provides a fixed line speed up to 2Mbps.
Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL Max broadband line speed of 6.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 5.5Mbps and 8Mbps.
Our test also indicates that your line currently supports an estimated ADSL2+ broadband line speed of 13.5Mbps; typically the line speed would range between 6.5Mbps and 17Mbps. Our test also indicates that your line could support an estimated ADSL 2+ Annex-M broadband upstream line speed of 1Mbps and downstream line speed of 13.5Mbps; typically the downstream speed would range between 6.5Mbps and 17Mbps.
thank you for your reply.
Edited by deleted (Wed 04-Jul-12 13:29:30)
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just to update everyone that has tried to help, I am happy to say that after 7 months of being told my line was only capable of a 444kbps upstream this morning it is now running at 1224 Kbps, a special thanks to Gavin & Mozzerr for bringing to light what the problem was as without that bit of info in the earlier reply, I am pretty sure nothing would have ever got done to fix it so cheers for that.
this mornings router stats are
ADSL Link Downstream Upstream
Connection Speed 15816 Kbps 1224 Kbps
Line Attenuation 25.8 dB 15.2 dB
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 6.0 dB
Edited by deleted (Mon 09-Jul-12 09:00:01)
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That's more like it!
Note your Up NM is now 6 dB; it was being artificially held high at 30 dB previously which damped your Up Sync as I pointed out in reply to your OP.
Down Sync is still about 2 Meg shy of what it should be with the Down NM of 6 dB as is.
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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That's great news musicmate!
Wish I could report the same... Hopefully it won't be a further 7 months for me, but currently I'm still on 443kbps upstream!
Strange, as I was told they were onto the issue last week... maybe the fix isn't simple!! Time to chase up Gavin I think...
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This was just Orange having the wrong profile applied to the line.
When a line is converted to 21CN (either ADSL or ADSL2) Orange must have set the upstream to the 448k option instead of "Uncapped". These are two options BT offer. We never cap a line at 448 so let it run at uncapped, but they had specifically upgraded the line to 21CN but forget to modify the upstream.
Edited by deleted (Thu 12-Jul-12 08:18:12)
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Ring them and ask them to log in to Eco Plus (BT wholesale system) and perform a modify to change the upstream to Uncapped rather than 448k - the modify happens overnight, simple I really don't know their problem...
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Ring them and ask them to log in to Eco Plus You don't really believe Orange phone support has your technical nous & professionalism, do you?
1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 19 Meg WBC
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