Different Bright Box revisions?

Apparently the newer versions of the Bright Box allow ANY MTU value to be preset, and not just 1492. I have four Bright Boxes, one a few months old, and the other three that came within the last week (brand new), and the old(er) one has this at the bottom of the label:

"146000107400J R01 ELN"

whereas ALL of the other three, newer ones have:

"146000107400J R01 WQJ"

It seems that the last three chars of that string indicate a newer version...

Edited by glossywhite (Sun 09-Sep-12 01:26:45)

Also id'ed in software by firmware vers. albeit wrong one. As discussed near end of your MTU thread.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

Also id'ed in software by firmware vers. albeit wrong one. As discussed near end of your MTU thread.

Would you expand on that please?

Thanks

Sorry, cant at mo'; no copy and paste. Do Search of your long MTU thread here for "firmware". Just before halfway.

EDIT Ah I see you've found it

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sun 09-Sep-12 03:14:09)

Glossywhite,

Can you tell me the method that you are using to change the MTU value ?

There will be a new version of firmware released very soon, which will allow PPPoA MTU to be set to 1500 in the settings page. It will also contain a couple of changes based on MikeWilliam's observations.

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

Glossywhite,

Can you tell me the method that you are using to change the MTU value ?

There will be a new version of firmware released very soon, which will allow PPPoA MTU to be set to 1500 in the settings page. It will also contain a couple of changes based on MikeWilliam's observations.

I have the newer version Bright Box router with WQJ and to configure the MTU to 1500

I go > advanced set-up > [accept] > broadband settings > MTU (576~1492) [1500] > [save settings].

And that�s it! It keeps the setting 1500 although the router firmware says MTU (576~1492).

Doing same on older ELN vers. with MTU to 1500 refuses as out of range.

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

It will also contain a couple of changes based on MikeWilliam's observations.

Who's that and what are they?

I have a Brightbox from June 2012, suffix is WQJ.

Just tried setting MTU to 1500 - will not accept on trying to Save.

Tried 1493 - NOT accepted on Save

Then 1492 - Saved without problem.

What are its Runtime Code & Boot Code Versions under Advanced/System?

Perhaps not all physical WQJs are created logically equal

Runtime Code Version: v0.09.82.0001-OT (Mon Nov 28 17:30:50 2011)
Boot Code Version: v1.00.10.0001-OT (Wed Dec 14 09:30:42 2011)
ADSL Modem Code Version: A2pD035b.d23i
Hardware Version: 01

I sure hope some gifted young bean manages to get DD-WRT on this

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Runtime Code Version: v0.09.82.0001-OT (Mon Nov 28 17:30:50 2011)
Boot Code Version: v1.00.10.0001-OT (Wed Dec 14 09:30:42 2011)
ADSL Modem Code Version: A2pD035b.d23i
Hardware Version: 01

I have the same Bright Box router and firmware version and the MTU can be set to 1500

SYSTEM
Runtime Code Version: v0.09.82.0001-OT (Mon Nov 28 17:30:50 2011)
Boot Code Version: v1.00.10.0001-OT (Wed Dec 14 09:30:42 2011)
ADSL Modem Code Version: A2pD035b.d23i
Hardware Version: 01

I have the Bright Box router configured in advanced set-up, broadband settings, with...

This page provides advanced settings to connect to your Orange Broadband service.

Broadband Type �� ADSL

Broadband Username �� x
Broadband Password �� x

Protocol �� PPPoA

VPI/VCI �� 0/38

Encapsulation �� VC MUX

Internet IP Address �� Dynamic

IP Address �� 0.0.0.0

Subnet Mask �� 0.0.0.0

DNS IP Address �� Manual

Primary DNS �� 193.36.79.101

Secondary DNS �� 193.36.79.100

Connection Type �� Always Connected

Idle Time �� 0 (minutes)

Authentication Protocol �� CHAP

MTU (576~1492) �� 1500

Evening E7r

Been away on busines.

I have just tried setting the MTU progressively from 1490 to 1505, leaving everything else "as-is".

1490, 1491 & 1492 were fine on "Save".

Everything higher failed.


I used 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 for the two DNS entries, so changed them temporarily.

Still would not save MTU above 1492.


Could the Exchange equipment have any effect, as otherwise I have not detected any differences in the H/W and S/W data.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

Could the Exchange equipment have any effect

No, not a chance! If you feel otherwise, just discon it from socket.

Can only be old runtime firmware with new boot firmware. We've already seen that their version control is non-existent

Morninng Xrayspex

"Tae mak siccar", I have just tried it disconnected, it made no difference with the over-1492 values - Not Saved; and I also tried 575 - Not Saved; and 576 - Saved.

So if Orange is relying on version information to track faults, etc, it is not going to be particularly helpful; and may cause confusion.

Guys, you can change the MTU but there is no point setting it to 1500, thats for cable services. The industry standard for an ADSL router is 1492, but this does not mean its standard for every ISP. Orange in point of fact uses a packet size of 1430 (data and header included) by using anything higher you are basically fragmenting the packets.

At least it was this size the last I checked, there are tutorials out there on the net to find this value out for yourself.

In reply to a post by Kaytfoh:

by using anything higher you are basically fragmenting the packets.

Then explain why I can use a Netgear with MTU = 1500 on Orange and this test Working out your maximum MTU reports no fragmentation of packets?

Screenshot of the command window with these results please...

Can't be arsed to swap routers just to satisfy you, in view of your rudeness elsewhere.

Then I can't be bothered to accept it, despite the fact that the socket in the other thread shouldn't have been opened to that degree as there is nothing in there apart from muck to examine that is the customers or your responsibility to repair.

Hello All,

This is a bug, I've had it tested and fixed. The MTU does not actually change just let's you think it has in the advanced set-up page on certain browsers.

In the next release of firmware, we have changed PPPoA to allow 1500 and PPPoE will stay at 1492 as per standards.

Regards

Sounds good

In reply to a post by UKDoc:

The MTU does not actually change just let's you think it has in the advanced set-up page on certain browsers.

But hasn't anyone with the newer BrightBox actually tested it with Working out your maximum MTU that it reports no fragmentation of packets?

when should we expect the new firmware?

cheers

Afternoon XRaySpeX

I have just tried that link "Working out your maximum MTU".

It reported Fragmentation at the standard setting.

I then tried-
1400 - NO Fragments
1450 - NO fragments
1460 - No fragments

1470 - NO REPLY
1465 - No Reply
1462 - No fragments

1464 - Highest value with both "No fragments" and with "Ping Replies".

So I have left the MTU at 1464.

-------------------------------------------------

My first impressions are-

No obvious variation on any of the Speed Tests-
TBB standard
TBB Flash
BT Beta

However the loading of pages does seem slightly faster.

Nothing else was changed.

I'm a bit confused by your numbers. Are they Ping Packet sizes or MTUs?

I hope you tried to set the Brightbox MTU = 1500 before you did this test?

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

It reported Fragmentation at the standard setting.
1400 - NO Fragments

What standard setting? Is 1400 the ping size?

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

1470 - NO REPLY

I hope you mean there was a reply but it was "Packet needs to be fragmented but DF not set"?

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

So I have left the MTU at 1464

I hope you mean that you left the MTU at 1492 cuz the largest unfragmented Ping was for 1464 and MTU 1492 = Ping 1464 + 28?

Clearer if you copy & paste your results as that page does.

If you were using the newer BrightBox, doesn't this prove that setting its MTU = 1500 has no effect/does not work?

Evening XRaySpeX

Yes, it does look as though I was confused; and that the 1464 etc was the Ping Packet size-

cmd

ping -f -l [packet size] [www.bbc.co.uk]

ping -f -l 1464 www.bbc.co.uk

I will re-try tomorrow, taking account of this correction.

As I recollect, it was "No reply" or very similar and brief.

Strangely though, I still have the impression that the page loading is slightly faster.

Thanks for drawing it to my attention.

Learning progressively, keeping the mind active!

OK, Thanks!

Please remember to set the Brightbox MTU = 1500 before you do this test, else it will have no purpose.

Morning XRaySpeX

I had done more extensive tests; but having problems copying from MSDOS cmd window. (Many years since I used MSDOS regularly!)

The MTU setting in the Bright Box was changed back to 1500 last night; and remains at that.

This morning, I have pinged at-
547
548
549
1400
1463
1464

1465
1499
1500
1501

Up to and including 1464 worked fine.

1465 upwards all timed out, similar to-
"

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 1464 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.92] with 1464 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.92: bytes=1464 time=39ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.92: bytes=1464 time=38ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.92: bytes=1464 time=41ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.92: bytes=1464 time=38ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.92:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 38ms, Maximum = 41ms, Average = 39ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 1465 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.92] with 1465 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.92:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
"

The major difference today is that I have not seen any regarding the fragmenting of Packets, which did occur on some yesterday.

All of these have been using my HP Pavilion tower VISTA PC directly connected to the Bright Box.

Finally, just checked again that the Bright Box MTU is at 1500 - OK.

Well done! That confirms that apparently setting MTU = 1500 on the newer BrightBox has no effect/does not work.

In reply to a post by eckiedoo:

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 1465 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.92] with 1465 bytes of data:
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

That's funny! That's what you get if you leave the "-f" out rather than the "needs to be fragmented" msg, but it still proves the point.

To copy from DOS CMD window: Point at text, R click, Mark, select text rectangle, RETURN,. Then paste where you want it.

My Bright Box has mysteriously changed, it will now no longer save the MTU 1500 only up to 1492.

When I try to save the MTU 1500 I now get�
You�ve entered an unsupported value for �MTU�. Please use a number between 576 and 1492

However I am able to reconfigure with MTU 1500 from my router configuration restore backup copy which is saved with the MTU 1500.


Also I find MTU 1492 is the setting required otherwise it will time out. 1464 + 28 = 1492 MTU.


MTU set at 1492
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping -f -l 1464 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.68] with 1464 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=1464 time=25ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=1464 time=25ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=1464 time=24ms TTL=53
Reply from 212.58.244.68: bytes=1464 time=25ms TTL=53

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 25ms, Average = 24ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping -f -l 1465 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.68] with 1465 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.13.251: Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

Ping statistics for 212.58.244.68:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 1, Lost = 3 (75% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 0ms, Average = 0ms

=============

MTU set at 1500
Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping -f -l 1464 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.93] with 1464 bytes of data:

Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=1464 time=26ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=1464 time=26ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=1464 time=26ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.93: bytes=1464 time=26ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.93:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 26ms, Maximum = 26ms, Average = 26ms

C:\Documents and Settings\Administrator>ping -f -l 1465 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.93] with 1465 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.93:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),

So it looks the router MTU 1492 is required for Orange network.

In reply to a post by E7er:

My Bright Box has mysteriously changed, it will now no longer save the MTU 1500 only up to 1492.

Peculiiar! Perhaps they remotely "upgraded" firmware. Have you checked the firmware versions have not changed?

In reply to a post by E7er:

So it looks the router MTU 1492 is required for Orange network.

No. it's your BrightBox restricting it as stated and confirmed earlier.

You can do the same tests with a Netgear set to MTU = 1500 and pings up to 1472 will succeed on the Orange WBC network

EDIT: Are you sure you haven't set MTU = 1492 in the PC?

Edited by XRaySpeX (Mon 24-Sep-12 19:48:28)

That is very interesting! I was previously puzzled by eckiedoo not getting the usual ping msg. when fragmentation needed as here:

In reply to a post by E7er:

MTU set at 1492

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.244.68] with 1465 bytes of data:

Reply from 192.168.13.251: Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.

vs.

MTU set at 1500

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.93] with 1465 bytes of data:

Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Request timed out.

It looks as though when the BrightBox has an MTU above its allowable range it does not respond to the fragmentable ping with the usual "fragmentation needed" Reply but instead ignores the ping completely .

Morning again

Thanks for your clear instructions re Copying etc.

For completeness, I tried pinging at the low end-

100

29
28
27

1
0
-1

Results are-


Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6002]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 100 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 100 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=100 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=100 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=100 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=100 time=24ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 24ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 29 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 29 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=29 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=29 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=29 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=29 time=24ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 24ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 24ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 28 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 28 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=28 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=28 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=28 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=28 time=24ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 25ms, Average = 24ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 27 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 27 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=27 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=27 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=27 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=27 time=24ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 23ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 10 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 10 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=10 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=10 time=25ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=10 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=10 time=24ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 25ms, Average = 24ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 1 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 1 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=1 time=24ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=1 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=1 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=1 time=23ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 24ms, Average = 23ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l 0 www.bbc.co.uk

Pinging www.bbc.net.uk [212.58.246.90] with 0 bytes of data:
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=0 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=0 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=0 time=23ms TTL=54
Reply from 212.58.246.90: bytes=0 time=23ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.90:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 23ms, Maximum = 23ms, Average = 23ms

C:\Users\Alex>ping -f -l -1 www.bbc.co.uk
Bad value for option -l, valid range is from 0 to 65500.

C:\Users\Alex>

============================

Re E7er managing to restore the 1500, I wonder if the SAVE operation covers the complete firmware, rather than simply the Parameters such as 1500?

That is reverting to the SAVEd version also restores the full older firmware; rather than simply the Parameter Values.