Livebox Second Line Service ending for All customers 28 Feb

According to Orange, when they called me this evening.
Letter in post to all customers to inform them.
40000 letters going out

Edited by deleted (Thu 20-Dec-12 19:11:32)

I use it all the time, with many calls in the day.

My line is still with BT.

Keith

Wikipedia also shows.....

Definite discontinuation of second line service in 2013

In December 2012, Some existing users of the second line have started receiving a letter from Orange stating that "from February 2013, you second line service will no longer be available." The letter just explains that it is "because the system we use to provide your second line is closing". In replacement of VOIP, some customers may be offered free calls from their main home phone line with the "new Bright Box" consisting of:
free calls to UK landlines
some UK mobile minutes
any time landline calls to 64 countries

I want to run this by you guys and see if I'm missing anything dodgy about this offer Orange has given me:

The 2nd Line seems to be going on 27th March. I was told that they are offering customers who have and use this 2nd line a package for £20 which includes:

- Up to 16 meg BB, Unlimited
- Free international calls to 64 countries off the main line (as opposed to 32 which thier website states, this includes a country which was excluded from the 32, this is the main reason for me still having the 2nd line)

However, I have to switch my BT line to theirs.

The £20 is what the package will cost - it's not an introductory fee.

Now tbh, I will be paying approx £10 less if I make this switch - am I missing something here, should I be concerned about anything, and has anyone else been offered this. Why have they been playing hardball with users with the second line when the decent thing to do would be to have made this offer a long time ago?!?

In reply to a post by peeps:

The £20 is what the package will cost

Does that include line rental? Do you have their mobile?

Yes they said this price included line rental, I do happen to have a mobile but it was never part of any all inclusive mobile+broadband account.

No, but it gets you a £5 discount on any packages.

Looks like they are offering their £29 pm (total) Unlimited BB + Anytime calls to mobiles and landlines with extra International destinations for £20 pm. Can't be bad!

I was also offered the £20 deal. However the reason Ive come to this site is that my broadband has decided to crawl to a snail speed. Speedtest.net says i'm getting 0.86Mbps and I cant really watch anything. But BTs tester is saying i'm getting 18Mbps. Not sure where to turn because Orange say there is nothing wrong.

Makes me think that I should have left everything like it was.

Yes, you are right, it says that in the letter. Normally includes 30 international destinations but this offer includes 64.

Keith

I�m absolutely gutted I�ve been with Orange Broadband for over 4 years now reason being was because of this 2nd line which included Free calls to 115 International Countries

Anyone know of any other providers who offer a similar service... Orange definitely does not know how to hold onto their customers.

Post Office has weekend free calls to some countries and UK mobiles, maybe that will fit your needs (depending on the country) - I use it to call a friend on a mobile in the USA - also free calls at all times to other Post Office phone customers

Id personally be wary about Orange now.. if they can happily pull the "second line" then I'm sure there is little stopping them discontinuing any Special deal a little further down the road.

May I ask what speeds you was getting on your 'old contract' with the 2nd line before you took them up on the £20 offer?

My fear is that they will purposely provide a slower broadband speed for those taking up this offer.

In reply to a post by peeps:

May I ask what speeds you was getting on your 'old contract' with the 2nd line before you took them up on the £20 offer?

My fear is that they will purposely provide a slower broadband speed for those taking up this offer.

Speedtest.net reported 18Mbps download and 0.9Mbps upload. I'm about 10 metres from the exchange.
Since I took up the £20 offer, I've been getting around 2Mbps from Speedtest.net but other testers still showed 18Mbps. I've also had problems streaming videos from youtube and iplayer.

Today, Speedtest.net seems to have recovered to the original 18Mbps. I just called up to see if I could back to back to the original contract but i'm 9 days into the new contract so i cant.

You need to cancel within 7 days appararently (although I thought that was 7 days from the date you receive the details in the post).

She told me to wait for 10 days from when I renewed for the broadband speeds to settle down. She might be right, but its a bit of a con that I have to wait until after the 7 day cooling off period is over before I can know what speed I'm really going to get.

I'll certainly be taking this further if the speeds don't go back to what I had since they told me that its exactly the same service with a lower price. I'll repost here in a few days to update you.

I've just changed over to this £20 deal which includes line rental, unlimited calls to landlines, the 64 international countries ( which I rarely use) and 500 mobile minutes along with unlimited broadband.
I was on an old deal of £15.32/ mont,h incl line rental, unlimited 2nd line calls to landlines, Orange mobiles and 30 int countries with unlimited "up to 8 meg" braoadband ( was originally £25 / month but got £10 / month off for having a contract Orange mobile which I pay for for my daughter)
Asked when changing over to the new contract if the broadband speed would improve as on the EE website they only show "up to 14mb briadband" and told it would.
My old speed was always around the 4.7meg download and 0.38 upload since they changed from LLU when it used to be 5.6 down 0,5 up and this stayed the same when I changed over from the old original large Livebox to the new Brightbox.
Today I received a text and email from them saying the changeover was complete and I rechecked the speed which has improved to 6.7 meg down and 0.64 up so am quite happy that it's improved.
Also when looking at the router stats it's changed to ADSL2+ so hopefully the speed improvements will continue , I'm about 2 miles from the exchange with the following stats
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 24.0 dB 4.7 dB
Line Attenuation 26.0 dB 42.5 dB

The new deal is good, I couldn't find anything better with inclusive landline calls for £20 and the bonus of 500 mins of moble calls ( I'm on PAYG mobile so usefull to me ) and hopefully the speed increase will stay and possibly increase further.
It's costing me almost £5 / month more but there is no need to have an Orange mobile anymore so can move networks for a better mobile deal .
As I said earlier, I'm happy so far. I know Orange had a bad rep for customer service but if you speak to someone in the UK with them I've found them to be great.

In reply to a post by stinky84:

Today I received a text and email from them saying the changeover was complete and I rechecked the speed which has improved to 6.7 meg down....

Out of interest, could you type in your details here and see what speed they estimate they could give you?
https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/createorderfl...
I'm curious to see how honest they are about speeds.

Just as a side note, there is an issue with their Brightbox router if you make and receive calls via the Internet. After you switch the router on, you can make/receive one call fine. But after that, subsequent calls are distorted and poor quality. This only affects calls made using SIP. This has been tested using multiple Brightbox routers. Orange/EE works fine if you use a different router.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 13:43:01)

Out of interest, could you type in your details here and see what speed they estimate they could give you?
https://www.bethere.co.uk/web/beportal/createorderfl...
I'm curious to see how honest they are about speeds.

Tried the link and put my tel no into the BE box but got this up
Service is temporarily unavailable.

Run a diagnostic test on BT wholesale site and got these results



1. Best Effort Test: -provides background information.

Download Speed
6.72 Mbps

0 Mbps 7.15 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Download speedachieved during the test was - 6.72 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 2 Mbps-7.15 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 6.94 Mbps

2. Upstream Test: -provides background information.

Upload Speed
0.64 Mbps

0 Mbps 0.83 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed

Upload speed achieved during the test was - 0.64Mbps
Additional Information:
Upstream Rate IP profile on your line is - 0.83 Mbps


We were unable to identify any performance problem with your service at this time.
It is possible that any problem you are currently, or had previously experienced may have been caused by traffic congestion on the Internet or by the server you were accessing responding slowly.
If you continue to encounter a problem with a specific server, please contact the administrator of that server in the first instance.

Thanks for trying the BE link.

Just to keep this updated, my broadband has now slowed down to 2Mbps on speedtest.net. However BT's speedtester says 17Mbps.

I think that Orange has reduced my speed at peek times to reduce their costs so they can support more users without installing extra bandwidth.

Ok, so tech support say there is nothing wrong. They only trust BT's speed tester which says 18Mbps. Even though I showed them 4 other speed test sites that all said 1.6Mbps or less! One said 0.4Mbps. I was told all other speed test sites are wrong. I also demonstrated that BBC Iplayer kept freezing during playback. I was told that BBC must be having issues. Life must be very easy if you can blame everyone else.

Now on hold for the billing department to complain.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 21:08:42)

In reply to a post by danjourno:

She told me to wait for 10 days from when I renewed for the broadband speeds to settle down.

That's just a myth. You haven't changed your actual BB; you are still on WBC ADSL2+. All you've done is change your contract and receive a new router. You can swap routers whenever you like but no new training/settlement period is triggered.

Never mind speedtests, post your full router stats. That's the only definite way of seeing what you are getting.

In reply to a post by stinky84:

Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 24.0 dB 4.7 dB
Line Attenuation 26.0 dB 42.5 dB

Where's the Connection Speeds reported with those.

I assume all the other speeds you stated were speedtests. You should be connecting at about 8.2 Meg Down, 888K Up which is about right for your attenuation. The top limit of the so-called "up to 14mb broadband" is not applicable to you at your line length.

I have taken the new £20 offer with Orange (due to second line service ending). I already have an Orange mobile, so should I be receiving a £5 discount on the £20 offer?

Cheers

Steve

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 21:59:45)

From what I read here I believe you have been offered their standard £29 pm (incl line rental), price to existing mobile customers, Unlimited BB + Anytime calls to mobiles and landlines with extra International destinations for £20 pm.

So, no, it's already accounted for.

I give up. Putting something in writing. Three Indian tech support staff told me that there are no issues even though they took control of my computer and I showed them that BBC Iplayer kept stopping and showed them the speed tests on other sites.

Putting something in writing as a last resort. My advice to anyone, if you are taking the £20 deal just to save a few pounds, don't do it.

Edited by deleted (Mon 25-Feb-13 22:21:24)

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by danjourno:

Never mind speedtests, post your full router stats. That's the only definite way of seeing what you are getting.

I disagree with that. Router specs only show the speed between the router and the BT exchange. It does not display the speed between the exchange and the orange network. For example, at peak times, the figure on the router does not reduce even though speeds can drop due to usage by other customers.

However, to answer your question, the router reports the following at all times:-
DownStream Connection Speed 21304 Kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 1151 Kbps

Yes, the router stats only show you the speeds of the weakest link. The rest of the back-haul network is far faster. However, it will be slowed down by contention somewhere in the network and that is what you are suffering from.

In reply to a post by danjourno:

However, to answer your question, the router reports the following at all times:-
DownStream Connection Speed 21304 Kbps
UpStream Connection Speed 1151 Kbps

Full stats please! Where's the NMs & Attenuations? Tho' at your speeds there would seem no problem with your BB connection and Orange is giving you best endeavours BB as promised.

Use PingPlotter it might show up the problem.
You do not need to register just click, do it later.

Target Name: bbc.co.uk
IP: 212.58.241.131
Date/Time: 25/02/2013 23:00:37

1 0 ms 0 ms 0 ms [192.168.1.1] Bright Box router default IP address displayed
2 16 ms 15 ms 16 ms [213.1.112.126]
3 15 ms 16 ms 15 ms [213.1.115.254]
4 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms [213.1.78.74]
5 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms [213.1.67.252]
6 19 ms 19 ms 19 ms [213.1.79.14]
7 20 ms 19 ms 19 ms [87.237.20.244]
8 19 ms 19 ms 23 ms bbc-linx.pr01.thdow.bbc.co.uk [195.66.224.103]
9 * * * [-]
10 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms ae1.er01.rbsov.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.46]
11 20 ms 20 ms 20 ms [132.185.255.60]
12 19 ms 20 ms 19 ms virtual-vip.thdo.bbc.co.uk [212.58.241.131]

Ping statistics for bbc.co.uk
Packets: Sent = 3, Received = 3, Lost = 0 (0.0%)
Round Trip Times: Minimum = 19ms, Maximum = 20ms, Average = 19ms

http://www.pingplotter.com/

Hello,

Please send me your details, broadband line number and alternate mobile number to contact you on and someone will call you back.

Regards

Here is the data from the Brightbox today
ADSL Status
This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Interleaved Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 755 (Kbps.)
Downstream 7866 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 8.3 dB 6.3 dB
Line Attenuation 23.6 dB 44.5 dB

I see there's a large drop from the upstream noise margin of 24.0 dB down to 8.3dB now but no difference to the upload speed.

And here are the results from recent Thinkbroadband speedtests before and since it changed to ADSL2+ on Monday. I was pleased to see an improvement of 2 Mbps download and .25 upload. The earlier speeds of around 4.67 / .38 have been consistent since Orange stopped LLU in June 2011 ( prior to this i was always getting aroung 5.6 / 0.5 so knew that the phoneline was capable of better than I was getting from the BT wholesale they put me on )
To be fair though the connection was very stable with me keeping the same connection and IP address for 120 odd days at the end of 2012



Flash Speedtest Results
Date Down TBB Down HTTPx6 Upstream IP Address ISP
Tue 26/02/13 11:23
6.68 Mbps 6.49 Mbps 0.63 Mbps EE
Mon 25/02/13 12:48
6.67 Mbps 6.53 Mbps 0.64 Mbps EE
Fri 22/02/13 17:55
4.68 Mbps 4.56 Mbps 0.38 Mbps EE
Thu 21/02/13 16:31
4.67 Mbps 4.53 Mbps 0.38 Mbps EE
Sun 17/02/13 11:29
4.66 Mbps 4.62 Mbps 0.38 Mbps EE

"huggons" also asked about the £5 discount to EE mobile customers, I was told that the £20 is a special price for 2nd line users and not dependant on having a mobile contract with Orange or T mobile and there is no further discount.

Stats and throughput are all good for your increased ADSL2+ Attenuation.

You are on the borderline of ADSL2+ benefits. It could be worth your while forcing router to ADSL Mode of G992.3(ADSL2) to try and squeeze a bit more sync.

I see there's a large drop from the upstream noise margin of 24.0 dB down to 8.3dB now but no difference to the upload speed.

I believe those stats you quoted before were when you were on G.DMT when your Up sync was 448K. Hence your Down Attenuation has increased by 2dB; this is normal.

I made the switch a month or so back - the new deal is much better than the old one, and the connection faster. So I am a happy customer.

Springnuts, how much of a speed increase did you experience?

Hi,

I am an Orange customer with Home Max plan for many years (paying £15.32 per month with the discount because of the Orange mobile contract, the landline is with Orange - no line rent paid to BT - and a second line). I received a letter a few weeks ago that Orange are stopping this plan and by the 27th of March I have to take up the new one for £20 per month without the second line but with the free calls abroad etc. on the landline and with a new router.

I have two issues:

1 - Taking up the new plan means that there is a minimum 12 month contract. Normally, this would be fine with me but there is a possibility that we leave UK in September, so this means that I will have to pay cancellation/termination fees, which would not be the case if I was with the Home Max plan.

2 - Every time we answer the phone on the main landline the internet connection drops. So, we have been giving the 2nd number to people who want to call us. This is not going to be possible with the cancellation of 2nd line with the new plan.

I called Orange yesterday and they said that they cannot tell me (even approximately) how much I would have to pay if we were to stop the service in September because of leaving UK. I was tranferred to their cancellation team and they could not tell me either. They said that they would know the amount at the time that I would call them to terminate the service which, of course, does not help me in deciding if I should take up the new plan at this moment. They said that there is no point in sending a letter because nobody in Orange would be able to tell me.

They also said that there is no way I can negotiate an exception for my case although it is not fair that I am forced to move to a new plan that is not only more expensive and with no 2nd line but will commit me to a new 12-month contract resulting in unknown termination charges in 6 months time that would not be there if I continued with Home Max.

As for the problem with the internet connection dropping when answering the main landline (which is going to be more annoying with the absence of the 2nd line), they said that they could send engineers if the problem is still there with the new router. However, I read online that Orange charge about these things which makes me even more skeptical about the whole thing.

Any ideas or information regarding the above would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!

My download speed went up from 4.67 to 6.75 and my upload speed from .376 to .93 so a good improvement for me about 2 miles away from the exchange.

In reply to a post by stinky84:

My download speed went up from 4.67 to 6.75

That's mainly cuz you were moved from G.DMT to ADSL2+, rather than from taking the new contract, which as I said earlier will not normally change your BB.

I imagine that previously you were on a legacy product and when you took the new contract Orange took the opportunity to upgrade your BB. This will not apply to the majority.

In reply to a post by Spy:

by the 27th of March I have to take up the new one for £20 per month without the second line but with the free calls abroad etc. on the landline and with a new router.

Have to? You sure? They can't make you change if you can do w/out the extra free calls. What is the actual wording?

The issue with the BB dropping when you answer the phone is a separate issue and is a problem with your line which will continue whether you take the new contract or not. You need to get it fixed. This occurrence is often a fault in the external line to exchange called an HR (High Resistance) fault. If it is, there is no reason for you to pay to get it fixed.

Interesting response Stinky and XRaySpeX. This is because if I was to go for this new deal my very expectation is that my speed will go up to from 2-3meg to 8-16meg.

I know my line and Orange can supply these speeds because I was getting such speeds before Orange started playing nasty tactics when refusing to give up the service (feel free to look up previous posts I have made on this subject), plus there is also another line which runs BT Broadband supplying up to 16meg speeds at my location.

I've put up with my downgraded speed to keep the second line, damn them if they think I'll switch to this service without any significant improvement in my speed....

Post deleted by peeps

Theres no forcing you onto the new contract. What I was told was that If I did not take them up on the new contract then I would still continue to pay the same amount per month - I just won't have the second line...

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by Spy:

by the 27th of March I have to take up the new one for £20 per month without the second line but with the free calls abroad etc. on the landline and with a new router.

Have to? You sure? They can't make you change if you can do w/out the extra free calls. What is the actual wording?

The issue with the BB dropping when you answer the phone is a separate issue and is a problem with your line which will continue whether you take the new contract or not. You need to get it fixed. This occurrence is often a fault in the external line to exchange called an HR (High Resistance) fault. If it is, there is no reason for you to pay to get it fixed.

Thank you for your reply.
You are right, they are not actually forcing me. I could stay with the same contract but without the second line. However, it is this 2nd line that has all the free calls in UK and abroad. These free calls on the 2nd line was the only reason that I chose Orange as a broadband ISP.

So, I either have to stay in the same plan but not the same really as with no 2nd line I'd be paying more than £100 per month for the previously free calls, or sign up for the new plan for £5 month more (which is not a problem) with no 2nd line but with same free calls on the landline and the prospect of having to pay an unknown fee to Orange when I leave UK in a few months time.

Basically, I'd be happy to pay even £30 a month if this transition was not considered a new 12-month contract (for a worse deal) but a continuation of service, meaning that I would pay much less as a termination fee.

Thank you for the information regarding the connection drop. Another problem is that torrents download with a speed of 1-3 Kbps and they gradually gain speed up to 700 Kbps or so after midnight. Is this a new policy from them as it was not the case in the first years of using Home Max?

Hello Spy,

If you want to send me your details by private message, I will get this looked at for you. Broadband line and mobile number please.

Regards

In reply to a post by Spy:

Every time we answer the phone on the main landline the internet connection drops. So, we have been giving the 2nd number to people who want to call us. This is not going to be possible with the cancellation of 2nd line with the new plan.

Could be a simple case of missing or faulty filters.

In reply to a post by peeps:

This is because if I was to go for this new deal my very expectation is that my speed will go up to from 2-3meg to 8-16meg.

Why? Are you on an "Up to 8 Meg" only package? Post your router stats to see if you will benefit.

@SPY It is for the very reason of the free calls to specific countries that I have not moved to a new contract. However, this £20 deal which maintains these free calls with the expense of losing the 2nd line seems a fair trade. I guess your dilemma boils down to which of the two scenarios will cost you less...

@XRaySpexX
I've even experience above 8meg in the past. And I could gladly give a specific account as to why I believe those with the 2nd line packages have been experiencing poor speed performances.

As for my Router stats:


ModulationType ADSL_2plus

ATMEncapsulation VCMUX

ModemFirmwareVersion bcm96358_ADSL_PHY_A2pBT009c1.d17d

Status Up

LinkStatus Up

LinkType PPPoA

DataPath Fast

UpstreamAttenuation 63

DownstreamAttenuation 165

UpstreamNoiseMargin 162

DownstreamNoiseMargin 281

UpstreamMaxRate 352000

DownstreamMaxRate 3231

UpstreamCurrRate 355

DownstreamCurrRate 3231

UpstreamPower 99

DownstreamPower 0

UpTime 145074


Stats.Total. Values


LinkRetrain 0

FECErrors 0

ATUCFECErrors 0

HECErrors 0

ATUCHECErrors 0

CRCErrors 0

ATUCCRCErrors 0

In reply to a post by peeps:

And I could gladly give a specific account as to why I believe those with the 2nd line packages have been experiencing poor speed performances.

Please do?

This account is in relation to a thread which yourself contributed to, about a year back :

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/f/4097978...

I had complained to Orange about a stream of discons and slow speeds - similar issues experienced by other users described in that thread.

Following alot of pointless troubleshooting and scriptreading on their behalf they tried a 'line reset' (I forget the correct term). I let it run its course and guess what? I was getting good to better speeds - I ran speed tests to make sure. Then I used the 2nd line, guess what? The slow speeds came back - best speed was about 2-3meg.

I went back to them and explained my observation. They asked me to remove the faceplate from the phone socket etc etc, and again, the line was reset. Sure I enough I was seeing decent speeds, at this point I decided to test my suspicions as to what was happening - I used the 2nd line and then re-tested my speeds - 2-3meg.

I complained to them, clearly stating what I experienced and insisted this is a problem from Oranges end, not mine. They sent sent a replacement router which apparently would solve the problems.

I recieved a first version Livebox which lo and behold had the hardware component for the 2nd line missing...I complained, they sent a another router, again it had the missing component. On both occasions they reassured me that I could use the second line on these routers.

I gave up pursueing this with Orange as it was clear any solution would mean losing the 2nd line. So I've been tolerating the poor speeds in order to keep it.

What I concluded was that using the 2nd line automatically forced you onto a slower speed profile or onto hardware at the exchange which is limited in providing higher speeds but gives the second line. I can speculate on other setups which might explain my observations but ultimately its clear that supplying this 2nd line is 'costing' them too much money and they don't want you to have it - and they have employed nasty strategies to get people off this service.

Therefore, I'm sure you could understand that if I decided to go with the new £20 contract I won't be wanting to tolerate 2-3Meg broadband.

Link correction:

In reply to a post by peeps:

http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/freeserve/f/4097978...

I've never seen such atrocious stats from such a short line.

You should be getting 21-22 Down, 1.2 Meg Up Syncs on ADSL2+.

Your 355K Up is more like one from G.DMT.

Your 28 dB Down NM is far too high and is losing you perhaps over 14 Meg Down Sync. Orange are holding this unnecessarily high. You need to ask them to release it.

Can you test it with a diff router? Persude Orange to send you a BrightBox, which is what they have done for me and others when we have reported a fault (w/out taking new contract). After all the Livebox is useless for you now and its stats are confusing.

I agree with your assessment XRaySpeX. (More Jackanory) Years back I paid for a 2nd BT landline at my residency, the hardware installation involved a second socket which was connected to the original socket - On this new line I got Freeserves 512kb broadband (Greenfrog modem).

Up until mid-last year the original phoneline got BT broadband which currently gets ADSL2+ speeds. Therefore I know it isn't a problem on my end.

I could try another router but this would be pointless as I wouldn't have access to the second line. Once this second line is no longer available at the end of March then I will pursue the speed issue.

In reply to a post by peeps:

I could try another router but this would be pointless as I wouldn't have access to the second line. Once this second line is no longer available at the end of March then I will pursue the speed issue.

I thought 2nd line already gone on 28 Feb as per Subject. OK do it then!

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:

In reply to a post by stinky84:

My download speed went up from 4.67 to 6.75

That's mainly cuz you were moved from G.DMT to ADSL2+, rather than from taking the new contract, which as I said earlier will not normally change your BB.

I imagine that previously you were on a legacy product and when you took the new contract Orange took the opportunity to upgrade your BB. This will not apply to the majority.

I realise that, I was on the "HomeMax" package which was the fastest available at the time and provided by Orange LLU as I said in my earlier post

I was on an old deal of £15.32/ month incl line rental, unlimited 2nd line calls to landlines, Orange mobiles and 30 int countries with unlimited "up to 8 meg" broadband

but if I previously wanted to change to an increased speed package I would lose the second line with free calls which would have increased my monthly bill significantly so I stuck with it even when Orange stopped the LLU, transfering me to BT wholesale and my speed dropped by about 1meg
On the whole I'm happy with the outcome as I don't think I'd get much faster at present unless I switched to Virgin fibre which is available but would cost more with calls. There is no news on upgrade of BT to FTTC and they have only recently upgraded the exchange to 21CN.

In reply to a post by peeps:

@SPY It is for the very reason of the free calls to specific countries that I have not moved to a new contract. However, this £20 deal which maintains these free calls with the expense of losing the 2nd line seems a fair trade. I guess your dilemma boils down to which of the two scenarios will cost you less...

Yes, as I have already mentioned the increase to £20 is not a problem. My problem is that this involves taking a new plan with a 12-month contract, meaning that if leave UK in 6 months I will have to pay fees that Orange cannot even estimate.

If Orange said, ok, we understand that staying in the same plan with the same £15.32 per month but no 2nd line and no free calls is not a real option for you, so, we expect you to do the logical thing and go for this new plan (which is more expensive and with no 2nd line) in order to get the same free calls and, therefore, we will treat this as a continuation (i.e. no new 12-month contract), I would have no second thoughts and join the new plan.

Edited by deleted (Thu 07-Mar-13 13:46:20)

I hear you and totally agree - But when have you known a big company to show common sense and consideration unless there was losses to reduce/profit to be gained...

I'll stand corrected but I would imgaine that if you had to leave in 6months I would think you would have to pay out the remaining 6months of the 12month contract aprox £120? Thats if you took out the new contract. Remember to consider the money you might be saving by not paying BT Line rental..

Hi peeps,

I do not expect much from companies but may be from a regulator/watchdog.

This is what I also thought about the termination/cancellation fees. They told me that if I was to terminate now there would be a £29+ fee although I am with them for many years. So I thought that in September with the new contract it would be sth like 6x20+30~£150. But I wonder/worry why they refused even to mention an approximate amount when I asked what I should expect in terms of termination fees...

By the way, I was already not paying BT any rental all these years! The thing is that to avoid paying this £150 in September I must either stay in the same Orange plan with the same price but no 2nd line and free calls, which will cost me more than £150 for calls abroad, or switch to a different ISP which will again involve a minimum contract period anyway...

In reply to a post by Spy:

They told me that if I was to terminate now there would be a £29+ fee although I am with them for many years.

There should be no termination fee if you migrate with a MAC.

In reply to a post by Spy:

or switch to a different ISP which will again involve a minimum contract period anyway...

A quick look on google shows there are some providers offering monthly broadband which might provide the flexibility you need.

I've just read that if you don't use your second line for 3 months then they will disconnect and send you a live box what I find really strange is my second line stopped working 4 months ago and I've been waiting for it to be repaired and all of a sudden I get a call saying the service has stopped and we are sending you a live boxes Its all a bit suspected to me
So I've just sent them an ultimatum to repair the second line and restore it for me or I will take legal action. i will let you know what happens ,but I bet they will just totally disconnect me .Will let you know

In reply to a post by iamborg1of1:

the service has stopped and we are sending you a live boxes

I thought it was the Livebox that gives you a 2nd, VOIP, line. Do you mean a BrightBox?

I've just sent them an ultimatum to repair the second line and restore it for me or I will take legal action

They're never going to repair your 2nd line now. They have discontinued it by changing their T&Cs and giving notice in accordance with their T&Cs. So any legal action you contemplate is bound to fail.