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Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Wed 12-Mar-14 17:32:52
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EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost??


[link to this post]
 
Hey guys - I've noticed a lot of problems have been figured out here so I'm here to post my own. I tried finding something similar but it seems each issue is it's own;

Here it is and no surprise : I have issues with my BrightBox. I recently moved in with my partner who lives with her sister. My partner who plays games regularly had zero issues while on Sky broadband&router but in order to pick up a phone package too her sister foolishly went with EE broadband (aka Orange aka our wireless routers never worked) and have been receiving worsening issues since my moving in with the two of us using the network simultaneously. This, in it's entirety, leads me to believe it is the router's fault but EE (rather, the script on the phone) are so very reluctant to simply replace or upgrade it.

During games such as League of Legends and Vindictus I often lose connection without warning or regularity, videos on youtube sometimes stop entirely until I refresh/move the bar to unloaded part and streams on other sites perform drastically worse and even my android phone has troubles staying connected on apps.

Now, multiply that by 2 because my partner has the same issues entirely. It is in trying to play the games together that the BrightBox fails the easiest, during League I'll get "reconnecting" every 5-15 minutes on my own but if we both play at the same time it'll never reconnect for one of us. Vindictus might manage up to an hour or two on my own because it's local hosting but if two of us play it's 3 minutes at the best until we both dc. Putting the phones on top of that at the same time can seriously axe any time to nothing as well.

It's been like this for a while so I ran through various speedtest websites and noticed that one of them would often return 100% packets lost (a bug on their side but enlightening nonetheless) - so I put on a program called WinMTR and it showed that while pinging 1byte of data every 0.1s (I figured this was as close to gaming activity) to google.com I was losing 15% packets to 192.168.1.1, to the router(?) on the dot. Putting another WinMTR on at 1024bytes every 2s lead to there being 3% loss on 1024b and 28%+ loss on 1b - which seems colossal for a connection that claims in admin that: "Downstream Rate: 10403kbps Upstream Rate: 1219kbps".

WinMTR summary on 7th January

I also went through ISCI netalyzr and it's response was "Network buffer measurements (?): Uplink 6200 ms, Downlink 1400 ms" "This is quite high, and you may experience substantial disruption".

We got EE on the phone and they did the whole resetting the router, 'updating it on our end' speel and sent us away for a week. Same problems, phoned again, they ended up sending some guy (not an engineer) to replace the cover plate (filter?) on our internet port in the wall and again said wait a week because it'll 'update on their end'. However, the issue is still set in stone - at least 15% packets lost, hugely unreliable connection. Netalyzr had slight improvements, with the buffer measurement halved but still came up with red warning flags in the same places. Left it about a month now but it's still the exact same. Typically I've thought it worse during 'peak' times but since it's my holiday this week I'm still noticing issues when I wake up from 5am onwards.

Put on WinMTR again today and it's almost a carbon copy - there's only 9 hosts in total to get to google.com which might be an improvement but it's still the 15% on 1byte/0.1s, 3%/28% loss with 1024/2s and 1/0.1s. I tried out 1024/1s and 1/0.1s too which slapped 48/18% loss WinMTR from 12th March. It's as if two trains are trying to go down the same tunnel and are pushing each other off the rails like schoolboys for lunchtime.

Over at Netalyzr today: "Network buffer measurements (?): Uplink 1900 ms, Downlink 700 ms" "This is quite high, and you may experience substantial disruption". AND "DNS resolver properties (?): Lookup latency 1400 ms" "This is particularly slow, and you may see significant performance degradation as a result." Same issues as before, except the DNS for flavour now.

I'm not sure if those settings are unfair in a typical internet environment so if there's better ways to simulate activity I'll put that on asap.

I'm kinda of resentful to phone up EE again due to their bad service, script reading and gross disregard for my own inspections so I was wondering if anyone has any clues as to where or what this issue is besides some sort of incompetency on the side of my ISP. Do they 'owe' me a functional router or do I just have to go and buy my own?

I looked around on the EE site for feedback as well, a couple saying that their Bell line (old phone line that could cause serious interference) could be still connected and that in System it says things about interference - is the following normal?

Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.2 dB 11.4 dB
Line Attenuation 12.8 dB 30.5 dB

This is the length of my problems and frustrations with EE and any response would be great in order to work around it, thank you.

Robert.
Standard User professor973
(experienced) Wed 12-Mar-14 18:40:57
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
New orange (EE) connection here. Same nightmare. Fighting all afternoon with Brightbox and overseas ignorance to get it up and running ... AGAIN! A bad bad move.
Trying Channel 11 here, as seems Brighty rather sickly in close proximity to other devices. Gonna pull my hacked HomeHub up here next visit.

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png

Edited by professor973 (Wed 12-Mar-14 18:48:20)

Standard User Ianph
(committed) Wed 12-Mar-14 19:03:06
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: professor973] [link to this post]
 
ask EE support to send you a brightbox 2 much much more reliable and also has 5ghz wireless

it supports adsl/2/+ fibre in modem mode and fibre in ethernet mode

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EE unlimited Fibre 76

72meg sync
EE Brightbox 2 (Ethernet Mode) + Openeach ECI Modem


Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.

Standard User professor973
(experienced) Wed 12-Mar-14 19:13:54
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
Thanks.

Zen Home Talk Plus - Freeola Family Broadband.
http://speedtest.net/result/2690543838.png
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Wed 12-Mar-14 19:34:11
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ianph:
ask EE support to send you a brightbox 2 much much more reliable and also has 5ghz wireless

it supports adsl/2/+ fibre in modem mode and fibre in ethernet mode


That sounds good, I'll give that a try thank you.
Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Wed 12-Mar-14 23:31:02
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
Hi Robert

There's nothing to suggest the router is at fault specifically.

When apps/games are not connecting have you checked if the devices are still connected to the router and if the broadband is in sync?

Can you post the full ADSL stats from Advanced settings/Status and include the Time Connected?
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 05:24:32
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
Hi Robert

There's nothing to suggest the router is at fault specifically.

When apps/games are not connecting have you checked if the devices are still connected to the router and if the broadband is in sync?

Can you post the full ADSL stats from Advanced settings/Status and include the Time Connected?


I've not really checked that yet - however when I do lose connections to these games I try to load up google to check the internet itself is still going and that works out fine. Not sure about how to check if the broadband is in sync mind you.

As for my asdl status:


INTERNET
Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 13:58:58
Downstream Rate: 10403kbps
Upstream Rate: 1219kbps

This page shows information about your ADSL connection if applicable.

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1219 (Kbps.)
Downstream 10403 (Kbps.)
Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.9 dB 12.3 dB
Line Attenuation 12.8 dB 30.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.1 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 1374 12
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 5138 5
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 1216 7
Statistics
Received Cells 8230921
Transmitted Cells 1599837

Thanks for the response.
Standard User Ianph
(committed) Thu 13-Mar-14 08:09:55
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
error seconds look a bit high to me and also noise margin is a bit high and if that was at the standard 6db instead of 12db you would easily get 2-3meg more download speed

do you have any phone extensions/ alarms cables coming from the master phone socket?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EE unlimited Fibre 76

72meg sync
EE Brightbox 2 (Ethernet Mode) + Openeach ECI Modem
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 09:04:26
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ianph:
error seconds look a bit high to me and also noise margin is a bit high and if that was at the standard 6db instead of 12db you would easily get 2-3meg more download speed

do you have any phone extensions/ alarms cables coming from the master phone socket?


In terms of our meg rating, we were at 7 before he came and it went up to that 10 after he changed the filter and they messed around but it's the reliability I'm after - at current we have the main phone plugged into it as well while the asdl is in what seems to be a separate part, like so:

http://i.imgur.com/0GbCNaD.jpg

I did end up with

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.1 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 1696 12
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 6206 5
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 1508 7

After 3 hours this morning, but I was trying to set the DNS server to a certain IP, which lead to completely negating browsing so I just reverted it to obtain from ISP which may have caused the majority of that.
Standard User Ianph
(committed) Thu 13-Mar-14 09:13:29
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
could you also post the attenuation and noise margin figures too please

best way to show those figures is right after a reboot of the router, power down router > leave for 30 secs > power back on and then obtain all of the stats and post them here

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EE unlimited Fibre 76

72meg sync
EE Brightbox 2 (Ethernet Mode) + Openeach ECI Modem
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 09:19:24
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
Just these numbers?

Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.7 dB 12.1 dB
Line Attenuation 12.8 dB 30.5 dB

Restarted only 20 minutes ago to see how it went.
Standard User Ianph
(committed) Thu 13-Mar-14 09:50:11
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
i really think its best to ring EE and ask for a brightbox 2 tell them your sure the box is faulty and this happens on various devices that are connected to the router, be persistent smile

also looking at the noise margin figures it looks like EE have set the 12db because of the disconnections to maintain stability, please monitor those figures on the downstream to see if they drop and keep an eye on the times of day if it does drop

best of luck,

EDIT may be worth setting one of these up for a day or 2 TBB Broadband Quality Monitor dont reset the router during this time as the monitor is unable to follow changes to the IP

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EE unlimited Fibre 76

72meg sync
EE Brightbox 2 (Ethernet Mode) + Openeach ECI Modem

Edited by Ianph (Thu 13-Mar-14 09:53:24)

Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 11:05:01
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ianph:
EDIT may be worth setting one of these up for a day or 2 TBB Broadband Quality Monitor dont reset the router during this time as the monitor is unable to follow changes to the IP
Giving the monitor a shot ends up with 100% packet loss, unfortunately I feel like the 'pinging' it tells you how to unblock on the other routers but not the BrightBox is enabled and I don't see any options anywhere to allow it.

Thanks for your help I'll give getting the BB2 a try.
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Mar-14 12:24:13
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Ianph] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Ianph:
i really think its best to ring EE and ask for a brightbox 2 tell them your sure the box is faulty and this happens on various devices that are connected to the router, be persistent smile
No hope of that! EE only supply the Bright Box 2 router to customers on high speed 76 Mbps fibre broadband connection. £26.00 a month
+ £15.40 landline rental UP TO 76Mb/sec. Includes £10.00 a month discount for EE, T-Mobile and Orange mobile customers in our network area.

https://broadband.ee.co.uk/home.do

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps unlimited. Sync 15282 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Mar-14 12:42:05
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Just these numbers?
No, useless on their own!

Everything you posted last time; full stats + Time Connected:.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 12:46:26
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Just these numbers?
No, useless on their own!

Everything you posted last time; full stats + Time Connected:.


;D stats reset when I did router so didnt have anything to show really -

Past 3 hours have been better than before, no disconnections so far.

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 03:48:52
Downstream Rate: 10583kbps
Upstream Rate: 1227kbps

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)
Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1227 (Kbps.)
Downstream 10583 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.6 dB 12.3 dB
Line Attenuation 12.8 dB 30.5 dB

Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.1 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 246 1
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 684 0
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 222 1

Statistics
Received Cells 2859485
Transmitted Cells 832062

Edited by Yiyas (Thu 13-Mar-14 12:47:12)

Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Mar-14 13:00:09
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
Have you configured the Brightbox router correct?

My EE Bright Box router settings for WBC 21CN ADSL2+ connection...

BROADBAND SETTINGS

This page provides advanced settings to connect to your EE Broadband service.

Broadband Type: ADSL

Broadband Username:
Broadband Password:

Protocol: PPPoA
VPI/VCI: 0/38
Encapsulation: VC MUX
Internet IP Address: Dynamic
IP Address:
Subnet Mask:
DNS IP Address: Manual
Primary DNS: 193.36.79.101
Secondary DNS: 193.36.79.100
Connection Type: Always Connected
Idle Time (minutes): 0 (minutes)
Authentication Protocol: CHAP
MTU (576~1500): 1500

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps unlimited. Sync 15282 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 13:06:22
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
Have you configured the Brightbox router correct?

My EE Bright Box router settings for WBC 21CN ADSL2+ connection...


BROADBAND SETTINGS

This page provides advanced settings to connect to your EE Broadband service.

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband Username
Broadband Password

Protocol PPPoA
VPI/VCI 0/38
Encapsulation VC MUX
Internet IP Address Dynamic
IP Address
Subnet Mask
DNS IP Address Obtain from ISP
Primary DNS
Secondary DNS
Connection Type Always Connected
Idle Time (minutes) 0
Authentication Protocol CHAP
MTU (576~1500) 1492

Seems pretty much the same to me - they also set it up like this over the phone last time so there shouldn't be anything with it.
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Mar-14 13:20:36
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
In reply to a post by E7er:
Have you configured the Brightbox router correct?

My EE Bright Box router settings for WBC 21CN ADSL2+ connection...


BROADBAND SETTINGS

This page provides advanced settings to connect to your EE Broadband service.

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband Username
Broadband Password

Protocol PPPoA
VPI/VCI 0/38
Encapsulation VC MUX
Internet IP Address Dynamic
IP Address
Subnet Mask
DNS IP Address Obtain from ISP
Primary DNS
Secondary DNS
Connection Type Always Connected
Idle Time (minutes) 0
Authentication Protocol CHAP
MTU (576~1500) 1492

Seems pretty much the same to me - they also set it up like this over the phone last time so there shouldn't be anything with it.
Note, I have entered the EE DNS manual and use MTU: 1500 we are now on the BT network, we did use 1492 for Orange LLU in the past. wink

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps unlimited. Sync 15282 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Mar-14 13:25:55
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
Have you configured the Brightbox router correct?
How can OP not have configured it correctly? If he had he wouldn't be syncing nor authenticating, yet he obviously is.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Mar-14 13:32:41
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Past 3 hours have been better than before, no disconnections so far.
Just as you had no discons in previous 13 hrs. stats:
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Perhaps the discons you did experience are entirely down to the game servers you are using? So no fault of the Brightbox or EE's connection.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 13-Mar-14 13:35:36)

Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 14:25:03
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Past 3 hours have been better than before, no disconnections so far.
Just as you had no discons in previous 13 hrs. stats:
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Perhaps the discons you did experience are entirely down to the game servers you are using? So no fault of the Brightbox or EE's connection.

Once again though, as soon as my partner is home and we both try to use anything the house of cards falls flat. I also read for one man he had to reset his router every 2-3 hours to avoid constant disconnection to play ESO. Since I've not had issues at LAN parties I'd say it's not the game's fault they cant handle 2 from the same place but instead either the router, the line or the provider's fault. I don't doubt I don't lose signal, but rather it can't be deciphered that X data goes to X computer while Y data goes to Y computer or that the router itself is simply overwhelmed by 2 (!!) computers requiring traffic at the same time, an issue that netalyzr thinks there is as well, and such that data is neither received or transmitted - which leads lost packets, of which the WinMTR program believes I get 15-40% of between the computer and the router.

Once again, after the returning issues I'm getting this:

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 05:27:59
Downstream Rate: 10583kbps
Upstream Rate: 1227kbps

Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.8 dB 12.3 dB
Line Attenuation 12.8 dB 30.5 dB
Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.1 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 341 10
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 1016 7
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 310 7

Whether or not this signifies anything I dont know.

Edited by Yiyas (Thu 13-Mar-14 14:31:03)

Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Thu 13-Mar-14 15:31:09
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
Your WinMTR results don't show a problem.
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Thu 13-Mar-14 16:01:52
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
Your WinMTR results don't show a problem.
I would have thought that packet loss over 5% would have been a huge issue, and WinMTR suggests it's at least 15% at all times does it not?

Gave EE a ring today and they messed up a bit but ended up in contact with an indian woman who was a lot easier to understand and just made me reset to factory settings and changed 'things on their side' again - however, the light at the end of the tunnel, she said they'd send through another router if the issue continues over the next two days.
Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Thu 13-Mar-14 22:52:30
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
I would have thought that packet loss over 5% would have been a huge issue
Yes
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
and WinMTR suggests it's at least 15% at all times does it not?
No
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Fri 14-Mar-14 04:58:04
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
I would have thought that packet loss over 5% would have been a huge issue
Yes
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
and WinMTR suggests it's at least 15% at all times does it not?
No
What does the 'loss' mean then? When it sends 300 and receives 200 that's not packets lost?
Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Fri 14-Mar-14 07:54:28
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
What does the 'loss' mean then?
Responses not received.
In reply to a post by Yiyas:
When it sends 300 and receives 200 that's not packets lost?
Not necessarily, and in your case, no.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Mar-14 10:20:13
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
It would help our understanding if you were to explain your negative responses.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Fri 14-Mar-14 10:53:48
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Hi, if you load up a screenshot from the OP and describe why you think there is packet loss to the destination, then I can maybe offer a more relevant explain. Thanks
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Mar-14 11:36:57
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
You're very helpful!

I'm just trying to understand this and all I see at step 1 is 18% loss, 45% loss, .. That reads a loss to me! If something is lost up to the router it can never get to any destination. If that's not a loss what is it? Just don't reply as you've been doing that it's not a loss! Make a positive effort!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Fri 14-Mar-14 12:32:08
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
all I see at step 1 is 18% loss, 45% loss, .. That reads a loss to me! If something is lost up to the router it can never get to any destination. If that's not a loss what is it? Just don't reply as you've been doing that it's not a loss!
I think I already explained it represents a lack of response received back from the router, not packet loss to the router. This is known because MTR shows there is no packet loss to immediately subsequent hops and the destination. If it's still not clear (I am trying actually) let me know and I can explain differently.
Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Fri 14-Mar-14 15:27:38
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
Righto I think I get where you're pointing - just looking for a why/cause really. Do you think the router itself is simply incapable of handling repeated pinging or is it filtering them out in some sort of way due to it's EE firmware perhaps? I did look about to see how I could flash the old Sky router we still have here - but due to it's make there were no solutions I could find. It also isn't a wireless problem as the results are identical whether on lan or wan.

Edited by Yiyas (Fri 14-Mar-14 15:28:29)

Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Fri 14-Mar-14 16:12:17
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
Like I said, it is not a problem and not causing your issues.

It's probably by design. You can see how the router responds to a standard ping by opening Cmd prompt in Windows and running: ping -n 100 192.168.1.1

Edited by vimto_girl (Fri 14-Mar-14 16:12:59)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 15-Mar-14 00:28:02
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
it represents a lack of response received back from the router
What can it be that the PC is sending to the router which the router is failing to respond to that is not destined for the WAN?

I've done your 100 x ping to a BrightBox and get:
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 0ms
and as for the ping onto the WAN:
Reply from 212.58.246.104: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.104: (bbc.co.uk)
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 12ms
Nothing discarded there in either!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 15-Mar-14 00:36:51)

Standard User vimto_girl
(member) Sat 15-Mar-14 00:45:19
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
What can it be that the PC is sending to the router which the router is failing to respond to that is not destined for the WAN?
I don't understand your point. The router doesn't need to return a response for the packet to reach its destination. That's how there is no packet loss to the destination.

In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I've done your 100 x ping to a BrightBox and get:
Reply from 192.168.1.1: bytes=32 time<1ms TTL=64

Ping statistics for 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 0ms, Maximum = 1ms, Average = 0ms
and as for the ping onto the WAN:
Reply from 212.58.246.104: bytes=32 time=12ms TTL=54

Ping statistics for 212.58.246.104: (bbc.co.uk)
Packets: Sent = 100, Received = 100, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 11ms, Maximum = 15ms, Average = 12ms
Nothing discarded there in either!
So? How do you know the OP won't have similar results?

Edited by vimto_girl (Sat 15-Mar-14 00:45:56)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sat 15-Mar-14 00:57:19
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: vimto_girl] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
The router doesn't need to return a response for the packet to reach its destination.
Well then, if the router doesn't need to return a response, what is it that the OP's WINMTR prog is reporting as lost when no response is to be expected as you say? Are you trying to say the router responds randomly to packets that pass through it? Could it be something to do with the TCP Receive Window?
In reply to a post by vimto_girl:
So? How do you know the OP won't have similar results?
We'll just have to wait and see smile.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Sat 15-Mar-14 01:01:30)

Standard User Yiyas
(newbie) Fri 21-Mar-14 18:11:30
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Right what happened guys:

Phoned up EE 5 times, having to do a line test each time each time they told me the line was fine from their end so I figure it has to be something in my house / my side. Various jerking around between them I had to let them change settings, wait two days, take off the filter, wait two days, get a new filter, wait a week, take off the filter, wait two days, more settings changed, wait two days...

However upon phoning them one day and getting shrugged off effectively I phoned again straight after and by getting a female EE person the second time she tells me there's a problem with the line exchange and they already knew about it - of which her colleague seemed to ignorant to tell me 5 minutes ago while telling me to go buy a plug in phone (not wireless) to check the quality of the landline. She said they'd send out a guy to go fix it in the coming days and they'd phone us back over it.

So 2 days after that the internet cuts out properly with no websites, no gaming, nothing for about 5 minutes. Comes back up and it works perfectly and has since with no visible issues as of yet.

Overall I'd say the female operators are far nicer than the males, since they're all Indian the females are much clearer to hear and louder to hear too. The first woman I talked to was very willing to just send out a router if the problem persisted while the second very easily identified the issue during the line test they do each time I phoned.

The fact that every time I phoned up, save the last, they said the line looks perfect to them really put me off.

Netanalyzr tells me all is green with "Network buffer measurements (?): Uplink 2900 ms" being the only red flag now while downlink is considerably better at 400ms, WinMTR still shows the packet loss so that was a red herring for this problem.

Thanks for everyone's help chipping in - if it wasn't for them saying the line was fine several times I wouldn't have wasted everyone's time here! I imagine the line isn't flawless but it's certainly better and it can now cope with the two of us playing games at the same time.
Standard User sully1311
(learned) Sun 04-May-14 10:12:01
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Re: EE BrightBox unreliable / disconnections / packets lost?


[re: Yiyas] [link to this post]
 
Bit late to the party but I had a similar problem to yours with the Brightbox

Do BBC News videos work properly? Mine would work for a few seconds, buffer then say content currently not available. Your Youtube problems sounds exactly like mine too, making it impossible to watch videos. My PS3 would also sign out from the PlayStation Network without reason.

Have you got another router? I changed my router and now router/internet is perfect! So it must of been a Brightbox problem.
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