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Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:40:22
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Moved house and have some questions.


[link to this post]
 
I'm an existing EE customer and moved house this week. My home phone has just been activated this afternoon, kept existing landline number as on same exchange. Does a '10 day stabilisation period' now apply for my broadband or is that for brand new customers only?
I'm curious as I'd like to have a fiddle with the master socket as my down speed is a lot lower than I was expecting for this address, 4.2 Mbps and I was expecting around 11 Mbps. I want to put my router direct to the test socket and see what that gives me...but not if it upsets something because of the 10 day thing.
There is an extension out of the bottom of the master with I don't really need and I think it may be effecting my throughput, there may also be the bell wire, it looks a pretty old split front master, older BT emblem. Also it is situated right next to the electricity meter box near the front door and unfortunately a leccy has run an electric cable in trunking box above the skirting board, right under the master socket from which the incoming phone cable passes behind to go into the master socket.

________________________________________________________________

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 03:25:29
Downstream Rate: 4843kbps
Upstream Rate: 1112kbps
Internet IP Address: _____________
Broadband Username: [email protected]

Status
Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information
Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1112 (Kbps.)
Downstream 4843 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication
Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 6.0 dB 6.1 dB
Line Attenuation 21.6 dB 40.0 dB


Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.4 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 2398 45
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 4 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 5092 36
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 2392 73

Statistics
Received Cells 3117403
Transmitted Cells 277004


______________________________________________________________

BTW Performance Test shows this.

4 Mbps Max Achievable Speed
Download speed achieved during the test was - 4.18 Mbps
For your connection, the acceptable range of speeds is 1.2 Mbps-4 Mbps.
IP Profile for your line is - 4.27 Mbps

_______________________________________________________________
Address checker estimate before move on left. After activation/connection today figures on right. Big difference, I was expecting better speeds here, where now it seems I'm 2 Mbps slower than my previous address. Bit gutted really as thought might get 10-11 Mbps frown

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kl2jxa2zpim7m89/address%20...


Cheers, Dave

EE ADSL2+ 4.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up

Edited by GorillaWheels (Sat 07-Jun-14 20:08:30)

Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 18:54:00
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Re: Moved house and have some questions. *DELETED*


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by GorillaWheels
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Sat 07-Jun-14 19:06:07
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Re: Moved house and have some questions. *DELETED*


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by GorillaWheels


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Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sat 07-Jun-14 20:38:34
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
Although you are on the same Exchange, you may be on a different PCP Distribution Box, with distinctly different cable routes back to the Exchange, so probably different characteristics etc.

If you are certain you do not need that extra internal extension, then remove it.

Then carry out the Quiet Line Tests, 17070, Option 2, particularly at the NTE with the internal extensions etc unplugged; and then with the internal extensions reconnected, using one of its sockets, listening for any untoward noises, apart from possibly a very low-frequency hum.

If you doe hear untoward noises at the NTE, report that to your PHONE Supplier as a PHONE Fauklt, avoiding mentioning Broadband.

---------------------

If there are NO untoward noises at the NTE; but they are heard when using an extension, you have to try to find the cause etc.

---------------------

Only after you have the basic PHONE Line quiet, can you really tackle the more technical aspects.
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Sun 08-Jun-14 10:29:46
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Thanks eckiedoo. I knew I'd be on a different PCP, it's just the BT line checker now gives different, worse figures for all types of broadband than it did before the line was reactivated here.
Getting back to my original question, do you think I am classed as we being in a 10 day stabilisation period? If I am, doing a quiet line test in the test socket would of course mean me unplugging the phone line, will this matter is my concern?
I don't want to phone up and ask if someone here can answer my query.

Dave

EE ADSL2+ 4.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 08-Jun-14 11:05:30
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
The odd discon won't matter

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sun 08-Jun-14 18:12:08
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
I am not well enough acquainted to be able to say about the 10 day training period; but XRaySpeX has inated that yte odd full disconnection at the NTE does not matter; and he is significantly more experienced in that area.


If you are still concerned, try the QLT from one of your phone extension, so that the Broadband connection at the NTE is not disconnected.

If you do hear any untoward noise, disconnect each of your internal phone connections, seeing if that has any effect on subsequent QLTs, again still maintaining the Broadband/NTE connection.

This will help you locate any noise source on the internal extensions, that you can then attempt to sort out.

=========================

Alternatively if you can, disconnect all of the internal extensions, apart from the Broadband one; and note if there is any significant improvement on your Broadband speed and/or reliability.

If improvement does occur, then again, the problem is apparently in your internal extensions.

============================

That let's you make some progress, waiting for the 10 days to elapse;but keep in mind ARaySpeX' reassurance.
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Wed 18-Jun-14 00:34:50
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
QLT with corded phone was fine with a filter attached, without it there were no crackles or hisses, BUT I'm convinced I could hear music?? very, very faintly!

When I took the master socket front off I was surprised to see the extension socket wiring coming from the front plate and not from within the socket going out the bottom.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/1vbriqjb6sg3dwi/master%20s...

If I completely remove the extension wiring seen there, will the front plate socket still work because it is connected to the phone line via the test socket?
I didn't want to take them all out as I haven't got a tool to put them back in again.
I have removed wires 3 & 4 just leaving 2 & 5 and the broadband speed has risen from 4.2 to 7.2 Mbps which is great. I will remove them all if they are purely for the extension, I'm going to connect my phone & router just at the master socket,

Dave

EE ADSL2+ 4.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up

Edited by GorillaWheels (Wed 18-Jun-14 00:43:38)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Jun-14 02:07:50
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GorillaWheels:
When I took the master socket front off I was surprised to see the extension socket wiring coming from the front plate and not from within the socket going out the bottom.
That's how it should be. That way you can isolate the master socket from the extension wiring and any interference from them. If you remove the extension wiring and reassemble the master it will still work as it should and go straight thro' to the test socket. That's how it was originally installed.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Wed 18-Jun-14 07:31:03
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
Morning GW
As XRaySpeX has already confirmed, you are taking your phone system back to how BT installed it, so no problems there.

Before removing that phone extension wiring, make sure that you retain the ability to make EMERGENCY Calls, particularly 999, readily and quickly.

Your mobile/cell phone or other device might not handle them; and you wouldn't want to be trying to connect a corded phone to the NTE in such situations.

Regarding the quiet music, try the QLT at other times, particularly both when the weather is bad; and if you have a drought! Those extremes help to expose weaknesses in the wiring.

If you think it or other noises problematic, report them to your PHONE PROVIDER, avoiding mentioning Broadband.

I note that your DOWNSTREAM Attenuation of 40 db is relatively high, suggesting that you are on a relatively long line in terms of copper; and it may have some aluminium wiring which worsens the situation.

On 24 db Down Att, I was getting 14 to 15 Mbps. (Recently moved on to FTTC, getting 35 to 36 Mbps, on a 40/10 contract, old and new with EE.)

As well as posting an updated set of stats, I suggest you also do the BRAS Test at-
http://windows.mouselike.org/be/?DoAction=BrasChecker

If you have not used this before, it may say initially that it can't do it (as opposed to not recognising your phone number). Just carry on, ignoring that message.

If it works, particularly note the Cabinet Number at the top; and the (Copper) Distance to the Exchange, posting those with your other new stats.

Occasionally one or t'other or both of those items are missing.

That information is very useful, if you should wish to go on to FTTC/VDSL.

Having the Cabinet Number, locate it; and try to find the wiring route from it to your house - a bit difficult if underground as mine is - and it takes about 250 Metres to cover a straight-line distance of 50 Metres, with the recently-installed FTTC adding another 50 Metres.
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Wed 18-Jun-14 17:37:27
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks XRaySpeX, I shall remove the extension wiring later tonight.

EE ADSL2+ 7.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Wed 18-Jun-14 18:37:13
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
Evening eckiedoo

My latest router stats are as follows, extension wiring still in till later.


Internet

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 18:21:12
Downstream Rate: 8371kbps
Upstream Rate: 1107kbps

Status

Configured Current
Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information

Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1107 (Kbps.)
Downstream 8371 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication

Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.7 dB 7.4 dB
Line Attenuation 21.7 dB 40.0 dB


Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 3172 282
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 30596 261
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 1114 184

Statistics

Received Cells 7020589
Transmitted Cells 775782

Bras check gave:
Data For: 01229******
Exchange: BARROW-IN-FURNESS (LCBAR)
BT Recorded Line Length to Exchange (m): 1990
BE LLU: Not Activated
Real Error: No BE LLU - (Check if exchange is full)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/rgcxvtb8bhkgpfy/route%20to...

This shows my house on the right and the path to pcp 64 on the left approx. 265 metres. My line comes into the house from the pole, yellow dot, and I assume goes underground to pcp 64.

GW (Dave)

EE ADSL2+ 7.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Wed 18-Jun-14 19:28:58
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
Evening Dave

Thanks for that posting.

Present
The ratio of your UP Attenuation to your DOWN Attenuation appears to be typical, about 1:2.

My ADSL Distance from my Exchange is 1286 Metres, compared to your 1990 Metres, so generally the slower speeds, particularly Download are not unexpected.

I note that like myself, you are on ADSL2+.

As you have been through the QLT, it is unlikely that you would see much improvement.

Regarding the Extension Wiring, you now have a good idea of what you should consider, if tackling it in any way.

------------

Future
As your line comes from that pole, further away from you, then the effects of that extra distance, looks around 2 times 50 Metres and say 5 metres for the pole height, this could have quite an effect on FTTC/VDSL if you head that way.

Particularly if the FTTC Cabinet is placed any significant distance away from the PCP, about 50 metres in my case.

Also minimise the distance within your house etc.

Edited by eckiedoo (Wed 18-Jun-14 19:30:26)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Jun-14 21:30:39
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: eckiedoo] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by eckiedoo:
you wouldn't want to be trying to connect a corded phone to the NTE in such situations.
Why not? You can connect any phone to the master socket, via a filter if necessary in conjunction with the router. The extension wiring has no bearing on calling 999.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 18-Jun-14 21:34:36
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by GorillaWheels:
extension wiring still in till later.
You won't gain much if at all. You line is capable of about 9 Meg.

BT Recorded Line Length to Exchange (m): 1990
Your attn. indicates your line is about 2.9 km. I've never believed that checker.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Wed 18-Jun-14 23:14:28
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Agreed, XraySpeX

BUT if like mine, the Master Socket is at the back of a cupboard, immediately under and hidden by a shelf, with much junk obstructing access ...
Standard User obroad
(newbie) Thu 19-Jun-14 11:02:31
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
As someone else has pointed out already that looks to me like a "by the book" installation which should help a lot, the extension connects to the removable plate so when you use the test socket you are directly connected to the incoming line. The test socket is a perfectly good phone socket.

Personally I'm a fan of faceplate filters, the ones that screw onto the front of the master. They eliminate the need for plug-in micro-filters, and provide a clear demarcation between voice and broadband service. The newer VDSL ones have terminals for a broadband extension too.

The only real reason for not buying one would be if you can swing a free one as part of installation work?
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Fri 20-Jun-14 00:26:38
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Just removed extension wiring from master socket front plate. Ever so slight increase in sync speed, like you predicted XRaySpeX.
Although out of the socket it is still in place above skirting board for now, all painted in and bracket/clipped in place, really couldn't be bother ripping it all out.
You say my line capable of about 9 Meg, well I've just got 7.44 Meg, i'm quite happy, much better than 4.2.

Broadband Type: ADSL
Broadband State: Connected
Internet State: Connected
Time Connected: 00:27:23
Downstream Rate: 8526kbps
Upstream Rate: 1112kbps


Line Status --- SHOWTIME
Link Type --- Fast Path
Operation Mode Automatic G992.5(ADSL2+)

Data Rate Information

Stream Type Actual Data Rate
Upstream 1112 (Kbps.)
Downstream 8526 (Kbps.)

Defect/Failure Indication

Operation Data Upstream Downstream
Noise Margin 5.9 dB 5.8 dB
Line Attenuation 21.7 dB 40.0 dB


Indicator Name Near End Indicator Far End Indicator
Output Power 12.8 dBm 0.0 dBm
Fast Path FEC Correction 0 0
Interleaved Path FEC Correction NA NA
Fast Path CRC Error 165 0
Interleaved Path CRC Error NA NA
Loss of Signal Defect 0 0
Fast Path HEC Error STR 880 0
Interleaved Path HEC Error NA NA
Error Seconds 77 0

Statistics

Received Cells 1174642
Transmitted Cells 212122

EE ADSL2+ 7.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Jun-14 02:10:27
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
You say my line capable of about 9 Meg, well I've just got 7.44 Meg, i'm quite happy, much better than 4.2.
I was talking Sync speed. You gained just 150K. More likely from timing than the work you did.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 20-Jun-14 02:28:40
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
For fastest Sync speed always resync during daylight not at midnight. Then you'll get the 9 Meg grin.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User GorillaWheels
(regular) Sun 22-Jun-14 15:52:18
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Thanks for the daylight resync advice, just did resync at 3.30pmish and got a sync speed of 8983kbps so yes, there's the 9 meg you predicted smile Also noted my downstream line attenuation increased by .5 to 40.5 with that resync.

EE ADSL2+ 7.2 Mbps down / 0.92 Mbps up

Edited by GorillaWheels (Sun 22-Jun-14 16:23:56)

Standard User eckiedoo
(committed) Sun 22-Jun-14 18:41:21
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Re: Moved house and have some questions.


[re: GorillaWheels] [link to this post]
 
During my 2 years on ADSL2+, June 2012 to June 2014, I noted the following

123 Sets of Readings, taken generally during "daylight" hours.

Downstream Attenuation
24.0 Lowest/Best
24.5 Average and Median
25.5 Highest/Worst

Downstream Speed
19,015 Best
17,841 Average
17,959 Median
15,968 Worst

The Speed Best & Worst do not necessarily coincide with the Attenuation Best and Worst.
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