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Standard User glossywhite
(member) Sat 15-Aug-15 00:51:31
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Yes, he's my neighbour in Church Lane.


^ ha ha, Ray.

Yes, you know with all this chasing EE, I may as well have just got up out of my sofa, walked across the sitting room to the MDF and jumpered it myself, and then sat back down to watch TV wink

Edited by glossywhite (Sat 15-Aug-15 00:52:18)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 16-Aug-15 00:25:27
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kail:
I take it your neighbour across the street that got that email from BT is a BT customer? It would figure that their own customers get it first before other operators have a chance to roll it out. BT started blagging about faster speeds in our local area, then months later so did EE and hey presto I found myself on ADSL2+ long after everyone else. LLU services like Sky and TalkTalk were already running on the faster kit.
...
Does anyone else you know use EE off the same exchange, if so have you checked what service they get? or indeed any other providers. I would guess at the moment non-BT customers are getting what you get ADSL Max.
Quite amazing. The OP mentioned misinformation, and those quotes are full of it.

LLU services are completely independent of whether or not an exchange is WBC enabled. Hundreds of thousands of people were able to get ADSL2+ long before BT Wholesale introduced it anywhere, under the label WBC.

Second, at the point that BT Consumer can offer ADSL2+ so can every other BT Wholesale ISP, such as AAISP, Zen, IDNet, Entanet resellers and a hundred or so others.

Then of course there is Plusnet, which belongs to BT. That too belongs in the list.

Third - EE. Do you know how EE broadband is provided? Entirely and utterly by BT Wholesale. But not in the way that list works.

For the ones on the list the user is connected to BT Wholesale at the exchange, and at one of the twenty nodes (ten in the case of ADSL Max) dotted around the country the user's traffic is handed over to the ISP who then gets it back to their own routing system and out to the internet.

That doesn't happen with EE broadband. They don't have a routing system of there own. It stays in BT Wholesale until it is routed out into the wider internet. EE are just a selling organisation.

But!!!

BT Wholesale will only provide what EE asks and pays for. When your exchange became WBC enabled, all ISPs who wanted to had to trigger the upgrade of their customers to it from ADSL Max. The problem was that EE were slow! Just as they appear to have been with the OP's exchange.

Why did they (Orange) get out of their LLU and non-LLU provision? Because they weren't and aren't really interested in landline broadband. They are a mobile company and landline broadband is just a sideline. They were failing - with broadband customers leaving in droves before they sold their whole technical broadband operation to BT Wholesale and just kept the selling arm. They couldn't afford it and still invest enough in their mobile network. Just like O2 sold theirs to Sky.

Oh - and fourth.

If BT didn't let the other ISPs onto new WBC at an exchange at the same time as BT Consumer got onto it, all hell would break loose and Ofcom would go bananas!


The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Sun 16-Aug-15 01:11:25
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Quite amazing. The OP mentioned misinformation, and those quotes are full of it.

<snip>
Possibly THE most rational, fine grained and thoroughly explained post in this whole thread, if not the WHOLE FORUM.

Thank you, and I welcome you to the land of rational pedantics. We love you here smile

Edited by glossywhite (Sun 16-Aug-15 01:12:09)


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Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 16-Aug-15 12:44:59
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That doesn't happen with EE broadband. They don't have a routing system of their own. It stays in BT Wholesale until it is routed out into the wider internet. EE are just a selling organisation.
Not correct if you remember. EE did retain their own 'backhaul' (or whatever you like to call it) network where they do their authentication, throttling, aka TM, and whatever before they peer it off to the wider internet. So BTw must hand it off to EE somewhere.
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.18]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms OrangeRouter [192.168.1.1]
2 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 213.1.112.200
3 35 ms 39 ms 15 ms 213.1.117.45
4 14 ms 15 ms 15 ms 213.1.67.230
5 16 ms 15 ms 14 ms 87.237.20.136
6 17 ms 15 ms 15 ms bbc-linx.pr01.thdow.bbc.co.uk [195.66.224.103]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
10 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms 132.185.255.149
11 15 ms 15 ms 16 ms fmt-vip72.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.18]

Trace complete.
Steps 2-4 = BT. Step 5 = Orange Home

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Kail
(member) Sun 16-Aug-15 20:17:35
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
LLU services are completely independent of whether or not an exchange is WBC enabled. Hundreds of thousands of people were able to get ADSL2+ long before BT Wholesale introduced it anywhere, under the label WBC.
Yes your right, but I'm sorry again if I've been misunderstood but I was not linking LLU with ADSL2+. The OP does not have any LLU on his exchange so I should have left the LLU comment off the end and saved you all the typing. lol

I simply meant that (on my exchange) Sky and TalkTalk had LLU with faster connections before everyone else, Orange(EE) did as well for that matter before they opted to use BT Wholesale. I joined Orange just after they went back to BT wholesale so I never had my line switched off the BT system as I was already on it having switched from BT consumer. In fact I swapped to BT to avoid ending up on LLU and a 24 month TalkTalk Opal contract, my ISP was taken over by TalkTalk. That meant I was stuck on ADSL max along with everyone else using BT wholesale. A year or two later they upraded to WBC but not everyone got it at the same time, I got it about 4 months after a number of BT customers I know.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 20-Aug-15 15:22:32
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
Oh LOOK, I seem to have been upgraded to WBC, as I always maintained that I could, despite the EE staff telling me otherwise; either that or someone's run me a VERY long cable to the north, connecting me to B4RN ^_^

LOOK, and don't let EE bluff you - my exchange is EMCRANF, and it is a smallish rural exchange... here's the proof:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/697/20546058898_ce13c...
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 21-Aug-15 00:31:13
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
And the moral is never believe a word EE CS tell you until you research elsewhere for the truth wink. Well done!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 21-Aug-15 00:43:25
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
And the moral is never believe a word EE CS tell you until you research elsewhere for the truth wink. Well done!


Oh I don't. The majority of them gave me the scripted spiel, not knowing what on EARTH they were talking about. They didn't know they were talking to an electronics engineer who used to spend his teens reading BT "SIN" notes (I used to order them by the BOX LOAD) and making phone taps, FM bugs etc and also loop-disconnect detection circuits, DTMF decoders, building and taking apart PBX units, touring telephone exchanges, being given old rotary 706 dialphones and "Buttinski" high impedance test phones ("Chesilvale" brand), designing copper loop off-hook detection relays, ordering data sheets from "Teltone corporation" (USA), playing with telephone line simulators, running "175" and "17070" for HOURS, analysing every possible menu option and outcome, scanning phone networks for tone test numbers (1Khz etc), being given old Strowger uniselector racks as they were decommissioned... I bet most of the folk I talked to at EE weren't even BORN then, or were in nappies, LMAO laugh


I was also told I couldn't get "EE TV", and yet today when I called up, the girl suddenly said "Oh of course you can - you're ON-NET now" laugh

Facepalm doesn't even begin to explain it.

Edited by glossywhite (Fri 21-Aug-15 00:50:01)

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