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Standard User glossywhite
(member) Tue 11-Aug-15 22:54:48
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Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[link to this post]
 
Hello everyone. I am on exchange "EMCRANF", which CLEARLY states my number (which is with EE) **IS** WBC enabled, but EE don't seem to be able to make up their minds... YES/NO/MAYBE? Eh? Make up your MINDS, EE!

I have made a VERY clear request to EE:

ME: "Hello, I am on IPStream or 'adsl max', and because that is limited to 8Mbps, I wish to UPGRADE to WBC, which has a limit of ~17Mbps on my exchange"

EE dumbdumb: "But sir, your line can only support 7.5Mbps"

ME: "Er, noooo, you're reading that BECAUSE that is what I am getting NOW as my maximum, due to CURRENTLY being on a adsl max IPStream, which can't GO higher than 8Mbps, hence you (falsely) assume that is my limit, PERIOD" - idiot then tells me "But our site says you can get up to 11Mbps, but you can't as the test shows 7.5Mbps is what you are getting" Idiot is getting confused between CURRENT supported BRAS maximum, and POTENTIAL Max ***IF I WAS ON WBC*** (very arrogant little twerp WOULD NOT allow me to speak, after my calmly asking him MANY times to please ALLOW me the courtesy of explaining how I perceived it... ARGHH!!!!


This idiocy was bounced back and forth for about 10 mins, echoing around the empty void of the customer disservice advisor, who didn't seem to be able to comprehend SIMPLE LOGIC.

Anyhoo... I finally got through to a very charming, rational girl who told me "Yes, I can see your exchange IS WBC upgraded, it's OUR systems that are lagging behind". She put my order through, and PROMISED me "EE TV" (which is [AWFUL] anyway, as I have Roku - SUPERB) and then today they reversed that decision... [censored]? (and yes, I know I *was* "off-net" before WBC upgrade to my exchange)

Today some random Indian bod calls me with no clear purpose or direction, who then puts me through to someone else... you know the drill with these idiots, and then the poor bloke he puts me through to has NO IDEA why he is talking to me. Indian guy then keeps calling me back asking me "Did they give you a firm date for WBC upgrade?"


What THE?? Why are YOU asking ME? How about you tell ME You work for EE, numbnuts.

So, in short, (yes, this sounds like a rhetorical question) - are EE feeding me a line of BS, or am I actually able to GET WBC? BT Wholesale availability checker says this:


Additionally, they now tell me

BT BROADBAND AVAILABILITY CHECKER
Telephone Number 01536330XXX on Exchange CRANFORD
Featured Products

Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)

Downstream Range(Mbps)

Availability Date

WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 11 -- 6.5 to 15 Available
WBC ADSL 2+ Annex M Up to 11 Up to 1 6.5 to 15 Available
ADSL Max Up to 7.5 -- 6.5 to 8 Available
Fixed Rate 2 -- -- Available
Other Offerings
Copper Multicast -- -- -- Available
For all ADSL and WBC Fibre to the Cabinet (FTTC) services, the stable line rate will be determined during the first 10 days of service usage.

This line does not have left in jumpers.

Throughput/download speeds will be less than line rates and can be affected by a number of factors within and external to BT's network, Communication Providers' networks and within customer premises.

The Stop Sale date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2012; the Formal Retirement date for Datastream is from 30-Jun-2014.

If the End User wishes to migrate from their current Broadband supplier they will need to contact the Broadband supplier they want to take service from to arrange for the service to be migrated.

Note: Please note that postcode and address check results are indicative only. Most accurate results can be obtained from a telephone number check.
Thank you for your interest.




Thanks everyone

Edited by glossywhite (Tue 11-Aug-15 22:57:42)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 11-Aug-15 23:03:37
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Current stats from adsl modem are?

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Tue 11-Aug-15 23:04:52
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Current stats from adsl modem are?


If I can get my WG834G to actually fully LOAD the pages in Chrome, I'll paste them here in a minute or so, thank you smile


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Standard User glossywhite
(member) Tue 11-Aug-15 23:19:40
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Stats screenshot:

http://1drv.ms/1hwrVVw

Margin calc results:

http://www.coolwebhome.co.uk/calc/index.php?param=RG...

Edited by glossywhite (Tue 11-Aug-15 23:48:39)

Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Tue 11-Aug-15 23:54:43
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Looks like adsl2+ will give you big boost.

If EE wont understand then time to move

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Tue 11-Aug-15 23:57:16
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
Looks like adsl2+ will give you big boost.

If EE wont understand then time to move


Ah brill smile

My question was, though, am I correct in thinking my exch *IS* WBC enabled, and they're talking out of their socks? "EMCRANF"

Thank you. smile
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 00:13:38
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
It look that way based on checker at least

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Wed 12-Aug-15 00:16:21
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by MrSaffron:
It look that way based on checker at least


Ah, so they ARE confused, and misleading me? Sounds about right for EE.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Aug-15 01:09:10
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Your line is capable of 18-19 Meg on ADSL2+.

The BT Checker says you can get WBC ADSL2+ at Cranford, so you can, from any BT-based ISP incl. EE. Tho' SamKnows, the normal bible of exchange capabilities, does not show WBC, but they are occasionally out-of-date.

The EE Checker, https://broadband.ee.co.uk/packages , also confirms that lines on your exchange can get ADSL2+, e.g. this property near exchange (which will probably be faster than you as I don't know your postcode):
Great news, we can offer you our 20GB capped broadband service. But because of where you live, we are unable to offer you EE TV.

This is what is available at your address:
X, Church Lane Cranford Kettering Northamptonshire, NN14 4AE Landline Number: NOT ENTERED

Broadband
10.0 - 19.5Mb/sec
Estimated download speed range*

From £24.95 per month
EE still consider your exchange "Off-Net" for historical reasons, so you will only be offered 20 GB limited usage at a price premium of £15 over "On-net" exchanges.

Have you looked in your EE Member's Centre for what it offers under "Change my Package"?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Wed 12-Aug-15 01:15:20)

Standard User glossywhite
(member) Wed 12-Aug-15 01:25:10
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Your line is capable of 18-19 Meg on ADSL2+.

The BT Checker says you can get WBC ADSL2+ at Cranford, so you can, from any BT-based ISP incl. EE. Tho' SamKnows, the normal bible of exchange capabilities, does not show WBC, but they are occasionally out-of-date.

The EE Checker, https://broadband.ee.co.uk/packages , also confirms that lines on your exchange can get ADSL2+, e.g. this property near exchange (which will probably be faster than you as I don't know your postcode):
Great news, we can offer you our 20GB capped broadband service. But because of where you live, we are unable to offer you EE TV.

This is what is available at your address:
X, Church Lane Cranford Kettering Northamptonshire, NN14 4AE Landline Number: NOT ENTERED

Broadband
10.0 - 19.5Mb/sec
Estimated download speed range*

From £24.95 per month
EE still consider your exchange "Off-Net" for historical reasons, so you will only be offered 20 GB limited usage at a price premium of £15 over "On-net" exchanges.

Have you looked in your EE Member's Centre for what it offers under "Change my Package"?


Hello smile

EE told me I will get *unlimited* bandwidth, absolutely guaranteed it, as I've had that since day 1 (4+ years) - I pushed that point VERY hard, and made them re-iterate it about 6 times - YES, she said.

EE talk a load of cr** - they do so by default, and don't know what they're doing BY DEFAULT. I told them "Hey, 20GB? It's not 2004 any more ya know".


Call me "old fashioned", but was always of the opinion that people should STICK to what they promise, ya know, being a matter of honour and all that. Mind you, honour means nothing these days, lies is the default position - ANY lies to part the stupid customer with THEIR cash (our PERSONAL property, the money, and the company doesn't have a RIGHT to it).

These people make me fume.

Edited by glossywhite (Wed 12-Aug-15 01:29:19)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Aug-15 01:39:36
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
I can only report what EE offers new custs at your exchange, There's no guarantee that your legacy unlimited usage will continue if you upgraded with EE. It would be a new contract.

Have you checked you own circumstances in the EE Checker and in your EE Member's Centre?

PS: There was no need to quote the whole of my post. You were not referring to it and it swamps your points. Just saying.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Wed 12-Aug-15 01:43:57
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Yes, whole-post quoting is a pet dislike of mine, sorry that I've done that. They kept saying, as CS always do to customers, it's "impossible" to allow the unlimited rate... but then someone says "nonsense, I promise you'll get it". She's put it in my notes, so they'd be wrong not to honour it. LONG TIME customers should be rewarded, surely, otherwise I've zero incentive to remain with them.

Edited by glossywhite (Wed 12-Aug-15 01:47:17)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Aug-15 04:27:31
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
She's put it in my notes
How do you know? Were you standing by her? Have you ever known EE CS to keep records of previous calls so that next time you call you don't have to go through the same old rigmarole? Unheard of!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 09:46:56
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Remember they are going by what their own system tells them, not what they can find out for themselves and call centre staff are not paid enough to be experts, the good ones soon leave for better paid jobs.

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Administrator MrSaffron
(staff) Wed 12-Aug-15 09:49:46
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
Actually yes, cold call from Sky with an offer a year or two ago, said I said 'sounds interesting can you make a note on the account and I'll call you back on the number I know to confirm it is really Sky for security purposes'

The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Wed 12-Aug-15 16:36:38
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: MrSaffron] [link to this post]
 
I was talking specifically about EE, from experience.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Wed 12-Aug-15 21:57:38
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
Ah, so they ARE confused, and misleading me? Sounds about right for EE.
Surely this should be easy to sort out, locate your BT Openreach cabinet, check with your Neighbours ask if they have WBC ADSL2+ or fibre broadband. EE are only going by the information they have obtained.

BT Openreach checker Are you in a superfast area?


BT Broadband Availability Checker also gives your cabinet number.

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps unlimited. Sync 15282 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box 1 ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 01:02:30
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
Ah, so they ARE confused, and misleading me? Sounds about right for EE.
Surely this should be easy to sort out, locate your BT Openreach cabinet, check with your Neighbours ask if they have WBC ADSL2+ or fibre broadband. EE are only going by the information they have obtained.

BT Openreach checker Are you in a superfast area?


BT Broadband Availability Checker also gives your cabinet number.


The thing which piqued my interest in the first place, was the neighbour directly opposite me - a friend - telling me "Oooh guess what? Our ADSL speed SHOT up to 14.8Mbps, after an email from BT".

This fact didn't escape me, and was CLEARLY explained to "Everything's Elusive", multiple times smile

The new EE Logo: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5620/20524875705_2201...

Edited by glossywhite (Thu 13-Aug-15 01:18:39)

Standard User Kail
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 02:11:13
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Hope this helps.

I put the line...
when is EMCRANF exchange going to be upgraded
...into google (quick link to search here) and among the 1st six results is, this thread, a pdf from BTOpenReach saying EMCRANF is getting FTTC in the calender year of 2015 and zen internet confirming/repeating what BT OpenReach say.

EE upgraded my line mid-contract to ADSL2/2+ last year then emailed me a few months later that they had done so. When it first switched over it didn't go much faster but the line has had problems. I understand they where moving people away from ADSL max, am I right that BT Wholesale don't sell the product to new customers anymore where WBC is available?
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 02:51:52
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kail:
Hope this helps.

I put the line...
when is EMCRANF exchange going to be upgraded
...into google (quick link to search here) and among the 1st six results is, this thread, a pdf from BTOpenReach saying EMCRANF is getting FTTC in the calender year of 2015 and zen internet confirming/repeating what BT OpenReach say.

EE upgraded my line mid-contract to ADSL2/2+ last year then emailed me a few months later that they had done so. When it first switched over it didn't go much faster but the line has had problems. I understand they where moving people away from ADSL max, am I right that BT Wholesale don't sell the product to new customers anymore where WBC is available?


That PDF states FTTP, not FTTC. Thanks, although I don't get your point.

Edited by glossywhite (Thu 13-Aug-15 04:00:33)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Aug-15 04:38:14
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
FTTP is not ADSL2+. Nor don't it pull ADSL2+ along with it.

It is easy to check! I have given OP 2 ways of finding out what EE will supply there, without even speaking to them, but he hasn't reported back what they say.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User E7er
(knowledge is power) Thu 13-Aug-15 11:21:05
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
The thing which piqued my interest in the first place, was the neighbour directly opposite me - a friend - telling me "Oooh guess what? Our ADSL speed SHOT up to 14.8Mbps, after an email from BT".

This fact didn't escape me, and was CLEARLY explained to "Everything's Elusive", multiple times smile

The new EE Logo: https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5620/20524875705_2201...
From you reply to my post it's obvious you don't have WBC ADSL2+ or FTTC superfast broadband in your area. frown

And these two quick easy checks below confirm it...

BT Broadband Availability Checker This also gives your street cabinet number.

BT Openreach checker Are you in a superfast fibre broadband area?

EE broadband WBC 20 Mbps unlimited. Sync 15282 kbps Downstream, 1276 kbps Upstream. thinkbroadband/SpeedTest
Bright Box 1 ADSL2+ wireless N Router supplied by EE/Orange
BT Business Hub 2Wire 2700HGV v2 ADSL2+ Dual SSID wireless Router
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 13:49:42
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade) *DELETED*


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
Post deleted by glossywhite
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 14:04:01
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
Eh?
The first link confirms categorically that I *DO* have WBC ADSL2+ in our village.

Edited by glossywhite (Thu 13-Aug-15 15:20:08)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Thu 13-Aug-15 22:39:36
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: E7er] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by E7er:
From you reply to my post it's obvious you don't have WBC ADSL2+ or FTTC superfast broadband in your area. frown
Not true! What are you talking about? Have you read this thread rather than repeating yourself with links that have already been reported upon? There is every evidence that ADSL2+ is present at OP's exchange. I'll remind you:
  • The BT Checker that you keep banging on about.
  • EE's own checker on their BB sales site.
  • Probably the Op's own EE Member's Centre but he won't confirm.
  • The neighbour's remark about getting 14 Meg after getting a email from BT, which you even quote.
Too many cooks!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC

Edited by XRaySpeX (Thu 13-Aug-15 22:45:19)

Standard User Kail
(member) Thu 13-Aug-15 23:58:27
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
That PDF states FTTP, not FTTC. Thanks, although I don't get your point.
FTTP, oh. I must have read along the wrong line.

The point I was trying to make is they clearly have planned upgrades for your exchange. Given my experience with my exchange and the unannounced upgrade from ADSL max, you may well get the same at some point. Although don't hold your breath.

You appear to be on a market 1 exchange with only BT Wholesale on it. Among others, my exchange had Orange (prior to EE rebranding) as in LLU before they reverted to using BT Wholesale so I think they still consider my exchange as on their network. That might make a difference, maybe not.

I know I started with I hope this helps, but it doesn't really does it, sorry. frown
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 00:03:42
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
In reply to a post by E7er:
From you reply to my post it's obvious you don't have WBC ADSL2+ or FTTC superfast broadband in your area. frown
Not true! What are you talking about? Have you read this thread rather than repeating yourself with links that have already been reported upon? There is every evidence that ADSL2+ is present at OP's exchange. I'll remind you:
  • The BT Checker that you keep banging on about.
  • EE's own checker on their BB sales site.
  • Probably the Op's own EE Member's Centre but he won't confirm.
  • The neighbour's remark about getting 14 Meg after getting a email from BT, which you even quote.
Too many cooks!


LOL!

I appreciate the help, but we can all be happy here, no need for a rift between any of us really, they probably got as confused as I was feeling, the other day, LOL.

My "membercentre" & "Everything Elusive" customer (dis)service + an Indian guy from tech support ALL confirm my order is going through now. The nice Indian chap even said to me tonight "It looks like you CAN get WBC after all" (well, yeah...) and he continued "... and once you're connected, we'll try and get you onto EE TV too, after all".

My perpetual persistence and re-iteration of facts seems to have paid off. The BTWS avail'ty checker also says "There is an open order on your line which is due to complete by 20-Aug-2015.".

So much for all this "Oh but Sir, you can't get WBC or EE TV"... blahblah haha. Well, I should be grateful, at least they've now resolved it and been courteous about chasing me up 3-4 time a day to let me know. I pity ANYONE going through this tedious process.

Edited by glossywhite (Fri 14-Aug-15 00:04:31)

Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 00:18:09
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
FTTP is not ADSL2+. Nor don't it pull ADSL2+ along with it.
Your right, I was trying to point on that the exchange is in line for an upgrade, and I thought it said FTTC not FTTP. So if they are upgrading the exchange it is possible ADSL2+ is in pipeline just not any time soon. Although "calender year 2015" is pretty vague and with a yearly time stamp if the date slips it could be a very long wait for anyone wanting it.
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
It is easy to check! I have given OP 2 ways of finding out what EE will supply there, without even speaking to them, but he hasn't reported back what they say.
I'd go with the BT checker as the EE one just doesn't tell you the whole story. If I put my details into the BT checker it says that ADSL Max, ADSL2/2+ and Fibre are all available (but only the slower 40/10 offering). On the EE checker it is only offering ADSL2/2+ at 5.5-15Mbps and says they will email me when fibre is available if I leave my address in the box. It tells you what they will sell you but not what is on your cabinet. Fibre is temporarily unavailable according to the BT checker but at least it tells me it is available, well some of the time, just not now.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 00:22:32
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kail:
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
FTTP is not ADSL2+. Nor don't it pull ADSL2+ along with it.
Your right, I was trying to point on that the exchange is in line for an upgrade, and I thought it said FTTC not FTTP. So if they are upgrading the exchange it is possible ADSL2+ is in pipeline just not any time soon. Although "calender year 2015" is pretty vague and with a yearly time stamp if the date slips it could be a very long wait for anyone wanting it.
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
It is easy to check! I have given OP 2 ways of finding out what EE will supply there, without even speaking to them, but he hasn't reported back what they say.
I'd go with the BT checker as the EE one just doesn't tell you the whole story. If I put my details into the BT checker it says that ADSL Max, ADSL2/2+ and Fibre are all available (but only the slower 40/10 offering). On the EE checker it is only offering ADSL2/2+ at 5.5-15Mbps and says they will email me when fibre is available if I leave my address in the box. It tells you what they will sell you but not what is on your cabinet. Fibre is temporarily unavailable according to the BT checker but at least it tells me it is available, well some of the time, just not now.


What? lol.

How do you figure "So if they are upgrading the exchange it is possible ADSL2+ is in pipeline just not any time soon.", when it's been CLEARLY repeated that ADSL2+ **IS** enabled? I live in a small village - how is my direct opposite neighbour getting 14.8Mbps if the ADSL2+ upgrade hasn't happened yet?

Does anyone actually absorb written statements of actual fact, and take them into account, when replying on this forum? Wow...


Someone mentioned "Too many cooks" - yes, AND HOW.

>_<

Edited by glossywhite (Fri 14-Aug-15 00:29:26)

Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:03:00
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
What? lol.

How do you figure "So if they are upgrading the exchange it is possible ADSL2+ is in pipeline just not any time soon.", when it's been CLEARLY repeated that ADSL2+ **IS** enabled? I live in a small village - how is my direct opposite neighbour getting 14.8Mbps if the ADSL2+ upgrade hasn't happened yet?

Does anyone actually absorb written statements of actual fact, and take them into account, when replying on this forum? Wow...


Someone mentioned "Too many cooks" - yes, AND HOW.

>_<
I was replying to XRaySpex on the matter of identifying what is available. But at the same time drawing a parallel with my own experience of being stuck on ADSL Max for years. There is no need to be rude about it, I'm only trying to help as are others.

I know your exchange is enabled for WBC you cut and pasted the BT checker results that tell us that. I may be a bit tired and not fully explaining things so I'll try again... My exchange had been upgraded to WBC for some time when I got my free EE upgrade to ADSL2+. I did not request it, it just happened one day near to the time my local exchange was upgraded to fibre, they were trying to migrate ADSL max users to ADSL2/2+. The statement, "So if they are upgrading the exchange it is possible ADSL2+ is in pipeline just not any time soon." was meant to indicate that and what happened to me. Not any time soon meaning they might be too busy with the FFTP/C upgrade. Sorry for any misunderstanding I hope that is clearer.

I take it your neighbour across the street that got that email from BT is a BT customer? It would figure that their own customers get it first before other operators have a chance to roll it out. BT started blagging about faster speeds in our local area, then months later so did EE and hey presto I found myself on ADSL2+ long after everyone else. LLU services like Sky and TalkTalk were already running on the faster kit.

Without baggering EE your service will eventually be upgraded as ADSL max will be retired, if you wait long enough. With no competition on your exchange that might be a lengthy wait as BT are not under pressure to provide faster and faster services to anyone, unless they ask for it. Ofcom has tried to get exchanges opened up to competition but in such a small place it doesn't look like anyone else has moved onto your exchange. Does anyone else you know use EE off the same exchange, if so have you checked what service they get? or indeed any other providers. I would guess at the moment non-BT customers are getting what you get ADSL Max.

On believing EE, I've learned to humor them when one of them says something inaccurate, they are in truth hopless. You know what BT wholesale says you should get for each service, I would believe that (within reason). EE customer services don't seem to know very much at all, support often used to ask me what my speed was, I would say don't you know, apparently not.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:08:18
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Glad you got it sorted and EE have come to their senses with a reality-check.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:16:09
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
"Without baggering EE your service will eventually be upgraded as ADSL max will be retired, if you wait long enough. With no competition on your exchange that might be a lengthy wait as BT are not under pressure to provide faster and faster services to anyone, unless they ask for it. Ofcom has tried to get exchanges opened up to competition but in such a small place it doesn't look like anyone else has moved onto your exchange. Does anyone else you know use EE off the same exchange, if so have you checked what service they get? or indeed any other providers. I would guess at the moment non-BT customers are getting what you get ADSL Max."

** Yes, I know it will; sometime between now and the 20th of August, as has been confirmed over the last 24hrs by *3* EE staff.

Why should I wait? I am taking them at their word ... LOOK:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/20528110336_37e3...
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:18:20
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Glad you got it sorted and EE have come to their senses with a reality-check.


Thank you my friend smile. So am I smile

This thread is becoming a little messy, lots of misinformation, misunderstanding and muddle (I don't know why - it's VERY simple, people are just more interested in saying their piece than READING other people's).
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:22:07
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
I have already shown the the EE checker does confirm that ADSL2+ is available from EE for certain addys near the OP's exchange. If one addy can get ADSL2+ then all can (unlike fibre).

The EE checker is a sales tool, unlike the BT checker, and will not offer that which cannot be currently fulfilled, such as fibre at full cabs. However that doesn't occur with ADSL2+ nowadays as exchanges are rarely full.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:25:08
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
I have already shown the the EE checker does confirm that ADSL2+ is available from EE for certain addys near the OP's exchange. If one addy can get ADSL2+ then all can (unlike fibre).

The EE checker is a sales tool, unlike the BT checker, and will not offer that which cannot be currently fulfilled, such as fibre at full cabs. However that doesn't occur with ADSL2+ nowadays as exchanges are rarely full.


Yep. That should be obvious to most people. What you don't know about broadband, ain't worth knowing, I seem to have worked out by now. You're ADSL tech KING, my friend - I've seen you around the net, and your breadth and depth of broadband and router knowledge is astounding!

laugh
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:42:30
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
If you think this thread is messy, you should see some of the others wink.

Yes, it should have been so straightforward to confirm you can get ADSL2+ at Cranford, w/out all the false trails we have been led up.

BTW: Are you being capped to 20GB usage or can you take your legacy unlimited usage with you?

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:45:07
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
Thank you for you kind words. Have a nice night!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 02:49:29
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
If you think this thread is messy, you should see some of the others wink.

Yes, it should have been so straightforward to confirm you can get ADSL2+ at Cranford, w/out all the false trails we have been led up.

BTW: Are you being capped to 20GB usage or can you take your legacy unlimited usage with you?


3 people have confirmed that I won't be capped, because there's a note on my account, put there last March when I questioned the £10 charge for going over 20GB, that states "If customer goes over 20GB, he shall not be charged", which is a result of my bringing to their attention that I SIGNED UP for UNLIMITED, and so it shall stay that way... and they agreed. I had the charges refunded, a few months free service thrown in, and never had ANY "over usage" charges since. Indian gentleman from the ambiguously named "technical dept", told me last night that I would be going onto WBC anyway, and WBC isn't capped, as it's ON-net (apparently).

Meh, whatever. Beyond caring now.

Edited by glossywhite (Fri 14-Aug-15 02:52:45)

Standard User Kail
(member) Fri 14-Aug-15 10:41:30
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by glossywhite:
** Yes, I know it will; sometime between now and the 20th of August, as has been confirmed over the last 24hrs by *3* EE staff.

Why should I wait? I am taking them at their word ... LOOK:

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5670/20528110336_37e3...
Glad you've got a date for it so you should have some idea of when. The address on that pic is the telephone exchange, you live there? wink

20th August is not that far away, hope they keep to it.
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 14-Aug-15 19:47:47
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Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
Yes, he's my neighbour in Church Lane.

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Sat 15-Aug-15 00:51:31
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
Yes, he's my neighbour in Church Lane.


^ ha ha, Ray.

Yes, you know with all this chasing EE, I may as well have just got up out of my sofa, walked across the sitting room to the MDF and jumpered it myself, and then sat back down to watch TV wink

Edited by glossywhite (Sat 15-Aug-15 00:52:18)

Standard User RobertoS
(elder) Sun 16-Aug-15 00:25:27
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by Kail:
I take it your neighbour across the street that got that email from BT is a BT customer? It would figure that their own customers get it first before other operators have a chance to roll it out. BT started blagging about faster speeds in our local area, then months later so did EE and hey presto I found myself on ADSL2+ long after everyone else. LLU services like Sky and TalkTalk were already running on the faster kit.
...
Does anyone else you know use EE off the same exchange, if so have you checked what service they get? or indeed any other providers. I would guess at the moment non-BT customers are getting what you get ADSL Max.
Quite amazing. The OP mentioned misinformation, and those quotes are full of it.

LLU services are completely independent of whether or not an exchange is WBC enabled. Hundreds of thousands of people were able to get ADSL2+ long before BT Wholesale introduced it anywhere, under the label WBC.

Second, at the point that BT Consumer can offer ADSL2+ so can every other BT Wholesale ISP, such as AAISP, Zen, IDNet, Entanet resellers and a hundred or so others.

Then of course there is Plusnet, which belongs to BT. That too belongs in the list.

Third - EE. Do you know how EE broadband is provided? Entirely and utterly by BT Wholesale. But not in the way that list works.

For the ones on the list the user is connected to BT Wholesale at the exchange, and at one of the twenty nodes (ten in the case of ADSL Max) dotted around the country the user's traffic is handed over to the ISP who then gets it back to their own routing system and out to the internet.

That doesn't happen with EE broadband. They don't have a routing system of there own. It stays in BT Wholesale until it is routed out into the wider internet. EE are just a selling organisation.

But!!!

BT Wholesale will only provide what EE asks and pays for. When your exchange became WBC enabled, all ISPs who wanted to had to trigger the upgrade of their customers to it from ADSL Max. The problem was that EE were slow! Just as they appear to have been with the OP's exchange.

Why did they (Orange) get out of their LLU and non-LLU provision? Because they weren't and aren't really interested in landline broadband. They are a mobile company and landline broadband is just a sideline. They were failing - with broadband customers leaving in droves before they sold their whole technical broadband operation to BT Wholesale and just kept the selling arm. They couldn't afford it and still invest enough in their mobile network. Just like O2 sold theirs to Sky.

Oh - and fourth.

If BT didn't let the other ISPs onto new WBC at an exchange at the same time as BT Consumer got onto it, all hell would break loose and Ofcom would go bananas!


The indispensable man or woman passes from the scene, and what happens next is more or less the same thing as was happening before.
My broadband basic info/help site - www.robertos.me.uk. Domains, site and mail hosting - Tsohost.
Connection - AAISP Home::1 80/20. Sync 57584/13846kbps @ 600m. - BQM
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Sun 16-Aug-15 01:11:25
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
Quite amazing. The OP mentioned misinformation, and those quotes are full of it.

<snip>
Possibly THE most rational, fine grained and thoroughly explained post in this whole thread, if not the WHOLE FORUM.

Thank you, and I welcome you to the land of rational pedantics. We love you here smile

Edited by glossywhite (Sun 16-Aug-15 01:12:09)

Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Sun 16-Aug-15 12:44:59
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
That doesn't happen with EE broadband. They don't have a routing system of their own. It stays in BT Wholesale until it is routed out into the wider internet. EE are just a selling organisation.
Not correct if you remember. EE did retain their own 'backhaul' (or whatever you like to call it) network where they do their authentication, throttling, aka TM, and whatever before they peer it off to the wider internet. So BTw must hand it off to EE somewhere.
Tracing route to bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.18]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms OrangeRouter [192.168.1.1]
2 13 ms 12 ms 12 ms 213.1.112.200
3 35 ms 39 ms 15 ms 213.1.117.45
4 14 ms 15 ms 15 ms 213.1.67.230
5 16 ms 15 ms 14 ms 87.237.20.136
6 17 ms 15 ms 15 ms bbc-linx.pr01.thdow.bbc.co.uk [195.66.224.103]
7 * * * Request timed out.
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 19 ms 17 ms 17 ms ae0.er01.telhc.bbc.co.uk [132.185.254.109]
10 16 ms 17 ms 16 ms 132.185.255.149
11 15 ms 15 ms 16 ms fmt-vip72.telhc.bbc.co.uk [212.58.244.18]

Trace complete.
Steps 2-4 = BT. Step 5 = Orange Home

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User Kail
(member) Sun 16-Aug-15 20:17:35
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: RobertoS] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by RobertoS:
LLU services are completely independent of whether or not an exchange is WBC enabled. Hundreds of thousands of people were able to get ADSL2+ long before BT Wholesale introduced it anywhere, under the label WBC.
Yes your right, but I'm sorry again if I've been misunderstood but I was not linking LLU with ADSL2+. The OP does not have any LLU on his exchange so I should have left the LLU comment off the end and saved you all the typing. lol

I simply meant that (on my exchange) Sky and TalkTalk had LLU with faster connections before everyone else, Orange(EE) did as well for that matter before they opted to use BT Wholesale. I joined Orange just after they went back to BT wholesale so I never had my line switched off the BT system as I was already on it having switched from BT consumer. In fact I swapped to BT to avoid ending up on LLU and a 24 month TalkTalk Opal contract, my ISP was taken over by TalkTalk. That meant I was stuck on ADSL max along with everyone else using BT wholesale. A year or two later they upraded to WBC but not everyone got it at the same time, I got it about 4 months after a number of BT customers I know.
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Thu 20-Aug-15 15:22:32
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: Kail] [link to this post]
 
Oh LOOK, I seem to have been upgraded to WBC, as I always maintained that I could, despite the EE staff telling me otherwise; either that or someone's run me a VERY long cable to the north, connecting me to B4RN ^_^

LOOK, and don't let EE bluff you - my exchange is EMCRANF, and it is a smallish rural exchange... here's the proof:

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/697/20546058898_ce13c...
Standard User XRaySpeX
(eat-sleep-adslguide) Fri 21-Aug-15 00:31:13
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: glossywhite] [link to this post]
 
And the moral is never believe a word EE CS tell you until you research elsewhere for the truth wink. Well done!

1999: Freeserve 48K Dial-Up => 2005: Wanadoo 1 Meg BB => 2007: Orange 2 Meg BB => 2008: Orange 8 Meg LLU => 2010: Orange 16 Meg LLU => 2011: Orange 20 Meg WBC
Standard User glossywhite
(member) Fri 21-Aug-15 00:43:25
Print Post

Re: Who do I believe at EE? (ordered WBC upgrade)


[re: XRaySpeX] [link to this post]
 
In reply to a post by XRaySpeX:
And the moral is never believe a word EE CS tell you until you research elsewhere for the truth wink. Well done!


Oh I don't. The majority of them gave me the scripted spiel, not knowing what on EARTH they were talking about. They didn't know they were talking to an electronics engineer who used to spend his teens reading BT "SIN" notes (I used to order them by the BOX LOAD) and making phone taps, FM bugs etc and also loop-disconnect detection circuits, DTMF decoders, building and taking apart PBX units, touring telephone exchanges, being given old rotary 706 dialphones and "Buttinski" high impedance test phones ("Chesilvale" brand), designing copper loop off-hook detection relays, ordering data sheets from "Teltone corporation" (USA), playing with telephone line simulators, running "175" and "17070" for HOURS, analysing every possible menu option and outcome, scanning phone networks for tone test numbers (1Khz etc), being given old Strowger uniselector racks as they were decommissioned... I bet most of the folk I talked to at EE weren't even BORN then, or were in nappies, LMAO laugh


I was also told I couldn't get "EE TV", and yet today when I called up, the girl suddenly said "Oh of course you can - you're ON-NET now" laugh

Facepalm doesn't even begin to explain it.

Edited by glossywhite (Fri 21-Aug-15 00:50:01)

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