Lag compensation ruining multiplayer

I've come here to express my horrendous multiplayer experience since first playing cod4 on consoles from release day, Up untill this very day, I have put up with lag compensation [censored] for years, I'm so tired of being knifed by people who are seconds ahead of me, I'm tired of shooting half a clip in someone and getting hitmarkers, I'm tired of shooting people and getting hitmarkers and they turn round and take me down in 2 shoots.

This happens to me in every multiplayer game, all cod games, BFBC2,BF3, A good ping is absolutely worthless.

Come play on a platform that isn't designed for world wide game lobbies, yes you guessed it PC. Stick to the elitist games to get the best experience (after you get drowned, teabagged, and slagged off).

Games that don't feel bad:

Tribes 2 (google tribesnext)
Counter Strike 1.6 (find a real server, don't use server browser it's been hacked to smithereens)
League of Legends (free DOTA game)
Starcraft 2 (haven't played it online but it looks nice )

I'll add more when I remember them.

In reply to a post by restarts:

I've come here to express my horrendous multiplayer experience since first playing cod4 on consoles from release day, Up untill this very day, I have put up with lag compensation [censored] for years, I'm so tired of being knifed by people who are seconds ahead of me, I'm tired of shooting half a clip in someone and getting hitmarkers, I'm tired of shooting people and getting hitmarkers and they turn round and take me down in 2 shoots.

This happens to me in every multiplayer game, all cod games, BFBC2,BF3, A good ping is absolutely worthless.

Tell me about it!

What's your Ping? Mine is below. I'm hoping to get interleaving applied at some point to try to get up to about 30 maybe. Probably won't help with host lag mind. I'm assuming interleaving will add latency even if there isn't much in the way of errors to be corrected.

Or should I say hoping.
.

If the game has a server browser, or allows invite only, try and build a group of friends with similar latency and play together.

If people have similar latency then lag compensation should not be an issue.

Pssst your live BQM is all red at present. Changed IP?

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

In reply to a post by restarts:

I've come here to express my horrendous multiplayer experience since first playing cod4 on consoles from release day, Up untill this very day, I have put up with lag compensation [censored] for years, I'm so tired of being knifed by people who are seconds ahead of me, I'm tired of shooting half a clip in someone and getting hitmarkers, I'm tired of shooting people and getting hitmarkers and they turn round and take me down in 2 shoots.

This happens to me in every multiplayer game, all cod games, BFBC2,BF3, A good ping is absolutely worthless.

Tell me about it!

What's your Ping? Mine is below. I'm hoping to get interleaving applied at some point to try to get up to about 30 maybe. Probably won't help with host lag mind. I'm assuming interleaving will add latency even if there isn't much in the way of errors to be corrected.

Or should I say hoping.
.

20ms ping interleaved, 10ms fastpath, You won't get upto 30ms, The best i can get it to is 25ms with my netgear router with different settings, And it still lags like [censored], Every match i put with this, It seems for a good experience you do need a 30ms+ ping.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Pssst your live BQM is all red at present. Changed IP?

No, I switched it off, Its back on now.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Pssst your live BQM is all red at present. Changed IP?

Ahh! That'll be the new router after the Babydaughtergate router incident!

Will have a fiddle with it, thanks.

Lag Compensation has made MW3 the worst online gaming experience i have ever had, what kind of dev is idiotic enough to make the game force the host to be at a disadvantage? I can understand them trying to remove any advantage but to basically make the game unplayable is unforgivable.

I have the PS3 version and patch 1.08 has made it even worse, last night i was walking forwards and just died, on the kill cam someone ran up to me and knifed me. I love being on Infinity but gaming wise it is the worst thing ive done, the pings are just too good and i am constantly the host.

Just like Black Ops the game runs nowhere near as good as it does on the Xbox 360 and normally over the years i have been a avid Playstation supporter and always had preference to buy all of my games for the P3 regardless.

But time and time again over the years the playstation has always lost out and the xbox 360 always seems to get the better versions,why this is is anyones guess considering the P3 is suppose to be the more powerful machine.

Now my Playstation 3 never gets a look in and gathers dust faster than the Nintendo Wii,have not played much of MW3 the last few weeks but in all honestly it runs as sweet as a nut just like Black Ops did.

Time and time again my friend who has the Playstation versions complained about it,only when he came to my house and played the xbox 360 version did he realise just how bad the playstation version he was playing was compared to the 360 counterpart.

I never thought it would be my 360 that hugged the limelight but it does and its really the only console i play apart from the odd exclusive game like Uncharted 3 that my playstation 3 actually gets used.

As I think you know, I've been posting in Fibre today to try to get more info on the interleaving controls on FTTC.

It won't make a massive amount of difference, but getting my ping to 35-40 rather than 9-10 would be a start. It has dramatically reduced my attention to MW3. I'm now only playing online for co-op and private matches with friends, but the code is applied to that aswell. The only difference being I can choose the people I play with so as not to exacerbate the problem. It killed BF3 for me on the spot I'm afraid.

If you are anything like me you will get massively frustrated with listening to people talk about 20 kills and 1 death, knowing full well as we do that the connection acieved that score, not the player. Getting them to admit it is another matter.

I hope this gets sorted as I have a ps3 and the reason for getting infinity was for gaming. Bt even say on the adverts "get the edge"! X box otherwise I guess.

For those with low latency FTTC, does the lag compensation mess you up when playing against other low latency users?

Any sign of acceptance of an issue by developers?

Any one on Virgin Media seeing the same, or is latency not so low to be an issue with faster cable products. Surprised that soem Be users never complain, as they have 9 to 15ms latency very often, but perhaps not enough upstream to get picked as the host I guess.

My friend whilst on Be, was always host for MW2 on pc. Hardly heard any complaints from him about MW2, he still swears by that game as the best fps so far.

I probably have an average delay of one second. If you shoot somebody inside a building, you die, then the replay will show him exiting the building and shooting you! My accuracy in survival mode is slightly over 30%. Online it is less than 9%. You can blame someone for being slow against human competition, but that doesnt alter their accuracy. My line wasn't good at 0.5 mbps with a 25ms ping on ADSL. It's much worse now on 38/10 with a 9-10ms latency.

I don't know if it's the compensation code or just poor matchmaking. But the only response I have seen from the developer is that the slower the latency, the bigger the advantage that player has. Getting acgame on a console with similar latencies is random at best. Even mercenary TDM suffers and that doesn't allow parties, sonthat doesn't say much for the matchmaking.

Sounds like someone has a decent Brain then Gzero hey !

In reply to a post by Gzero:

My friend whilst on Be, was always host for MW2 on pc. Hardly heard any complaints from him about MW2, he still swears by that game as the best fps so far.

Is he mental in the face?

Console or PC?

No issues here on fastpath FTTC. BFBC2, BF3 & source games are very smooth (PC).

No issues on the PC and I haven't seen a single complaint from anyone else. It might be worse on the console but I think some just use it as an excuse.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

No issues on the PC and I haven't seen a single complaint from anyone else. It might be worse on the console but I think some just use it as an excuse.

You could try googling and you will find plenty of debate. To the gamers who are suffering the effects, whatever the cause, that is a deliberately incitive statement.

You could be constructive and show a little empathy for fellow gamers, or alternatively keep your pointless opinion to yourself.

Some, not all. Google isn't proof, you should be providing it yourself.

I find it a tad unfair that you choose to view problems of this nature with zero tolerance,perhaps if it was on the other foot and you had similar problems then i doubt you would have the same attitude.

I am sure restarts and a few others would rather come on here saying how great his connection and lag problems were instead of the usual scenario.

There is nothing worse than being a passionate gamer who gets some of his excitement out of his or her life to be lumbered with rubbish online issues.

10 years ago it may not have mattered so much as there was not much thought put into online console gaming,now most people like myself look at the online aspects of a game first and the single player second.

I know i certainly would not have bought all the COD games if there was no online mode,granted some classic games like bioshock.Uncharted to name but a few don't need multiplayer and that acceptable when they are quality products.

So may be have a little consideration for other that do not have the best online capabilities as yourself !

Edited by time2die (Wed 08-Feb-12 18:37:47)

Every since I moved to FTTC this has been a right pain on MW3 on the Xbox 360, i have to actively avoid being the host because I get my [censored] kicked by anyone on the other team that has anything other that 4 green bars..

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Some, not all. Google isn't proof, you should be providing it yourself.

I think I'll stick to discussing it with people slightly higher on the evolutionary scale if thats ok with you? If I wanted to reason with a monkey I'd go to the zoo.

It's interesting to hear it happens to people on both consoles. Sort of adds creedance to the argument that it is a coding issue and not a platform one.

What latency do you normally get?

Just as I thought, you don't have an argument or any proof so you turn to silly insults. Nice.

Mr Saffron is barking up the correct tree. The trouble is finding enough people to play with the same latency to prove anything convincingly.

I get picked as host 99/% of the time. On numerous occasions if I run and find a member of the other team immediately, the first couple of kills are virtually free, 2 bullets doing the job. After that it reverse completely and a whole clip won't kill most of the opposite team.

It almost seems like your connection is monitored for a few seconds before the code decides your average latency and then applies the appropriate correction factor. That may not be what is happening of course, but it feels like it.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

Just as I thought, you don't have an argument or any proof so you turn to silly insults. Nice.

No. The insult is you accusing people of making excuses. As T2D said, if thd boot was on the other foot. If it isn't happening to you then you must be right, right?

Try it this way round:

1. Think
2. Speak

I suggest that you look at the definition of the word some.

Edited by Zadeks (Wed 08-Feb-12 19:10:03)

As you yourself stated that you hadn't heard anybody else complaining, your "some" appears quite specific.

It pops up from time to time as an excuse in-game. It's very easy to blame the game/netcode.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

It pops up from time to time as an excuse in-game. It's very easy to blame the game/netcode.

There you go again. It's not affecting you so it must be an excuse.

The developers have stated it themselves, the higher the latency the bigger the advantage. That's the whole point in matchmaking in the first place. If you don't understand how it works dont judge other people.

Yes, his favourite saying is "he knows". Then I remind him he has only died twice between the 20 odd killstreak he was just on... during this time he alt tabs to check on tf2 trading to see if any random has made him an offer. Yes he is mental and constantly telling me how much buds are worth.

Well considering he'd reply to you with "u mad?", I'm not sure the above statement is true.

Sure they have, Nice of you to provide a link to backup your claim.

Fix 1.07 for MW3 - did this help anyone?

http://callofduty-8-modernwarfare-3.com/modern-warfa...

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3-pc/...

Putting the low latency, high bandwidth users at a disadvantage is poor coding in my book. Yes compensation to level the field, but ssems it may have gone too far, and poor server browser/matching make it worse.

P2P is the enemy of gaming. Dedicated servers all the way.

Dedicated servers don't make a single bit of difference, Lag compensation is also used in dedicated servers.

In general.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

P2P is the enemy of gaming. Dedicated servers all the way.

In reply to a post by Zadeks:

In general.

Dedicated servers all the way. In general?

Care to elaborate?

Users often have poor connections.

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

Mr Saffron is barking up the correct tree. The trouble is finding enough people to play with the same latency to prove anything convincingly.

I get picked as host 99/% of the time. On numerous occasions if I run and find a member of the other team immediately, the first couple of kills are virtually free, 2 bullets doing the job. After that it reverse completely and a whole clip won't kill most of the opposite team.

It almost seems like your connection is monitored for a few seconds before the code decides your average latency and then applies the appropriate correction factor. That may not be what is happening of course, but it feels like it.

Why not make your self not connectable so you don't get picked as host.

Apart from being picked as host, I can't think why low latency would make things worse (when hosting).

If you are host then your latency is zero and your real latency is just added to the clients, which may mean that having more latency means even more lag compensation as the clients will be lagging more.

Of course if you see this when playing as a client then I suppose adding some may help equal things out.
If you have a wired lan, are into network geekery and can boot a PC into linux (live cd may do) then you could add some latency with some funky routing and netem.

In reply to a post by restarts:

Dedicated servers don't make a single bit of difference, Lag compensation is also used in dedicated servers.

True, but depending on the game high pingers can be excluded automatically, or admins can kick them.

In reply to a post by legume:

In reply to a post by restarts:

Dedicated servers don't make a single bit of difference, Lag compensation is also used in dedicated servers.

True, but depending on the game high pingers can be excluded automatically, or admins can kick them.

Which is basically the point.

Console gamers don't have those options, which is why they rely on the developers to address poor matchmaking issues etc.

Andrew's post linked to Infinity Ward's patch to adjust lag compensation code issues for low pingers. Treyarch denied there was a problem and said the code had always been the same. Both companies said they would rather you got into "any game", than have to wait ten minutes for the "right game. A little consistency is required.

If you are going to struggle against high pingers in every game, why be penalised when hosting. It's the only game that you will not be at a disadvantage. Why put the host at a disadvantage to eleven other players? Is that fairer than eleven other players not being able to kill only one player, the host?

It's plainly a nonsense approach.

In reply to a post by MrSaffron:

Fix 1.07 for MW3 - did this help anyone?

http://callofduty-8-modernwarfare-3.com/modern-warfa...

http://forums.electronicarts.co.uk/battlefield-3-pc/...

Putting the low latency, high bandwidth users at a disadvantage is poor coding in my book. Yes compensation to level the field, but ssems it may have gone too far, and poor server browser/matching make it worse.

Your link to the Electronic Rts forum had some interesting stuff toward the end. I haven't played BF3 since a couple of weeks after release so I might give it a go again and see. I've heard about the "double kill" type event, where the server realises the discrepancy and awards a kill to both players. That has to better than the continual deaths and respawns on the old system. I'm not overly confident mind.

As for MW3, the 1.07 patch may have worked a little. It has become marginally playable, but it's still pretty pointless for a proactive player such as myself. Taking objectives is still virtually impossible and camping or sniping really isn't my bag.

This is where counter strike used to have very good netcode. It felt right when playing and gave low ping players an advantage. Most people have adsl or better now rather than mostly being on modems in the early days of counter strike , people only get high ping by joining server that are a long distance away or using a cheapo ISP. Compensating to even things up for high ping players is a waste of time and ruins game play.

In reply to a post by darkhorizon472:

This is where counter strike used to have very good netcode. It felt right when playing and gave low ping players an advantage. Most people have adsl or better now rather than mostly being on modems in the early days of counter strike , people only get high ping by joining server that are a long distance away or using a cheapo ISP. Compensating to even things up for high ping players is a waste of time and ruins game play.

I couldn't agree more. If it actually worked I wouldn't mind but it is clearly flawed.

As I say, why move the issue onto the guy who is paying for the quality connection, which gives the rest a buttery smooth experience?

Because.... is it ok to rip into stupid PLAY NOW matching making of a certain mw2? If so that is what I would accuse of being the reason behind this stupid reasoning, to appease the masses with dumbed down features.

For the Playstation generation

In reply to a post by Gzero:

Because.... is it ok to rip into stupid PLAY NOW matching making of a certain mw2? If so that is what I would accuse of being the reason behind this stupid reasoning, to appease the masses with dumbed down features.

Absolutely. That's my theory anyway.

This is just rediculous, Last night i tried playing mw2, And switched it off after a few games, Getting mowed down by 3 bar players, When i have 4bars, Not getting chance to react, Going through my bullets and knifing me, Stuttering 1 on 1 incounters because lag comp over compensates tenfold, Every match is like this, My days of buying games is way behind me, I'm not going to support companys, That are not supporting me.

Might want to check the battlelog forums.

BF3 on the PC is known to be rather poor for multiplayer netcode.