True or false?

In reference to gimmegimmegames.com/2013/01/creator-of-fxaa-gives-his-2-cents-on-th...:

�If PS4 has a real-time OS, with a libGCM style low level access to the GPU, then the PS4 1st party games will be years ahead of the PC simply because it opens up what is possible on the GPU. Note this won�t happen right away on launch, but once developers tool up for the platform, this will be the case.

As a PC guy who knows hardware to the metal, I spend most of my days in frustration knowing damn well what I could do with the hardware, but what I cannot do because Microsoft and IHVs wont provide low-level GPU access in PC APIs. One simple example, drawcalls on PC have easily 10x to 100x the overhead of a console with a libGCM style API.�

Key word: "If"

Let me put that in bold: If

Now lets capitalise that: IF

And now an underline for effect: IF

Game devs have been crying for lower level access for years, and each generation of console there is a claim they will get as close to as possible access. Yes you've guessed it, it's all a load of hype and tosh.

I'm no coder so can you explain a bit more?

Sorry...EXPLAIN


Edit: underlined it

Edited by mrnelster (Sat 26-Jan-13 10:29:10)

All this talk about low level api = they want to be able to call every single process by hand.

What happens at the moment is you feed it some information, and the renderer goes away looking at it and then determines how best to display it.

This is where graphics devs want the power to only demand what they want from the hardware.

Simple issue really, but do you really think think Sony/Microsoft/AMD/Nvidia will let some any idiot damage their image with a poorly produced product that runs so bad through the net (when they do QA, they don't test graphic quality as far as I know).

So as console manufacturers see them as muti media products (even more so next gen) a certain amount of access will always be reserved for other things?

Also, I was always under the impression it is only a small amount of developers which want this low level access? Because it makes it much more difficult and time consuming to develop the game.

The problem with low level access is that any variation in the hardware (whether it's through upgrades, changes in design, imperfections etc) could render the program unusable or for it to crash.

Developers would end up having to code stuff for different revisions, hardware and whatnot - which would be like going back to MS-DOS days...

API are designed to protect against these sort of problems...

Thanks for the explanation.

Yeah i understood every word .

Dont care what is under the hood as long as if its a major improvement over todays ageing consoles.

Theirs no doubt that you will see a improvement, if we dont see anything at E3 this year then its unlikely that the new consoles will come this year.

In reply to a post by time2die:

Yeah i understood every word .

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Why didn't you say True or False then?

Anyway I've told you, dudes like us are too good looking to understand computers. We're all about mopeds and shandy bass.

Ooooosh!

It would also require a lot more testing of the application - and they are bad enough as it is!

Shaaaaaaaatingggggggggggggg

If they don't come this year I'm going to upgrade and get a New Sega Dreamcast like me matey mrnelster.

Not me its Levi Stay-press and Crombies red hanky and all............Oh yeah and me white spats on me feet.

And me new romantic Cossack trousers with a 1000 pleats and a mega quilted frilly shirt [pirate style] and me red pixie boots..........Those were the days.......

Bring back the 70s and mid eighties........Those were the decades and the best time of my life.

I know it was a bit after your time mrnelster me old matey,yours was more brill cream and rock around the clock .

Spook popped out just as the Spice Girls formed so he wont have a clue what the hell we going on about,he is more than likely upside down again in his Cave.

Wasn't this what happened on the 1st Xbox, some developers used low level access and was great until the Xbox 360 came out and suddenly they couldn't run under emulation and there was a lot of bad feeling on the xbox forums about it.

As for the PC I remember the DOS days with game having huge lists of graphics and sound drivers and being asked to pick the one that was closest to your one and you hoped it worked.

DirectX was one thing that Microsoft did do right by acting as a layer between software and hardware.

I honestly can't see why devs would want to do this, first patch from a hardware manufacturer or to the operating system and chances are that game stops working.

The steam forums would be up in arms....

Isn't it all about consoles though (ie, fixed hardware)? Not PCs, which are a [censored] to run in the best circumstances.

You big girl's blouse. I have no idea what most of that stuff is but I do know what frilly means. Also, I remember Adam Ant. Stand and deliver! Your money or your wife. Yeah, I was a bit deaf so...

I remember the Old Spice girls. Very dramatic. Always liked the beach too.

[Now, back to me cave to do some serious hanging.]

Something may not work if there was an upgrade (or a new machine came out).

Yeah, I got that from what was said above thanks to you and others who actually have some understanding on this subject.

Hey Spooky........If next generation consoles get released this year you in or what ?

Be good to give you a good old whipping online .....

If I haven't fallen off me perch and killed meself then yeah, I'm in. I'll probably buy both consoles like you. I'll wait and see what they can do and what kind of (deliverable) power they have under the hood. It might be the end of my PC gaming days as I know them.

Tweety pie had a perch

I want key board and mouse support instead of stupid little controllers

Yeah, that's something I hadn't considered. It's been a long time since I controlled any kind of FPS with a controller. That honour would go to Quake 2 on the original PS. My little sister and I would share the controller, with her doing the movement I think and me the aiming and shooting!

"I Tawt I Taw a Puddy Tat."

In reply to a post by Lt_Swan:

I want key board and mouse support instead of stupid little controllers

How would a keyboard and Mouse work with a home console which normally takes a central role under the television,have you tried playing a game with a mouse and keyboard on your lap or some portable mini desk you have to wheel into the front room every time you want to play a game.

Not only would the place start looking cluttered and a mess the mrs would not be to happy either,if you want to play games with key/mouse then go back to PC gaming and sit in your office.

I remember when the dreamcast came out and i played with a keyboard and mouse set up with Quake 3 Arena,i had to go to staples and buy some portable small office desk on wheels and a chair to go with it just so i could use the key/mouse set up.

I myself think nothing beats key/mouse set up for gaming,apart from driving games,but to introduce this for a standard practice for consoles would be foolish and useless.

Edited by time2die (Tue 29-Jan-13 13:44:43)

It only has to be an option for those that want to use it
At least sony could try and make controllers for man size hands

Sony are Japanese and they have tiny little hands but I take your point mate.

Again Swanny i could not see many people switching to Mouse/keyboard combination even if they did support it

Edited by time2die (Wed 30-Jan-13 15:18:05)

In reply to a post by time2die:

Sony are Japanese and they have tiny little hands,put i take your point and they should produce a variety of controllers.

Again Swanny i could not see many people switching to Mouse/keyboard combination even if they did support it

Well I would

So tell me your typical set up giving the fact Sony let you use a mouse and keyboard combination with the new playstation 4.

So where would you keep your p4 and how would you play it given the fact you need a nice flat surface for a mouse,without some portable wheel around desk the only way possible to play this p4 would be lying on the living room carpet,even then you are going to have to have a mouse mat or some sort of flat board or something.

Add to the fact both the mouse/ keyboard would have to be wireless and you have another debate regarding those people that prefer wired connections.

I just can not see a logical way that this can work on a gaming console unless you rig it up like a PCM in a spare room or office.

Definitely has to be wired connections. Maybe I'll keep my PS3 for dvd play back and put the PS4 in the spare room in front of a monitor, I can sit at the desk up there

I'm thinking of it as a cheap PC

Trouble is Sony have removed the ability to use Linux with it, so you'll be limited to what you can do with it...

As long as I can play BF4 that's ok

In reply to a post by time2die:

Sony are Japanese and they have tiny little hands.....

And feet.