Reaction time, latency and broadband - how fast is fast?

There's a cool video clip of a robotic hand playing the 'rock, paper, scissors' game against a human opponent and winning every single time. They say we puny humans can barely compute response times between 30-60 milliseconds let alone respond in this time-frame but this robot can do it in just 1ms and to us, mere apes, it looks instantaneous.

So, I got to thinking what about gaming online and that old chestnut, latency or lag? Appreciably, those experiencing poor connections realise there is more to a bad connection than just how fast a packet of data travels to and from one host to another - the response time - and many of us know what it's like playing at pings of 150ms or higher or playing against others who are rubber banding like crazy online, so how fast do we really need our connections to be, seeing as how most of us are not exactly gifted with robotic reaction speeds ourselves?

I know Timey struggles to even light a fag these days and his eyes are shot, marbles all rolling about on the floor everywhere and Nels has chronic RSI through doing so much housework so can't move his fingers like he used to. Swanny's not exactly a spring chicken these days either so if you add our pathetically slow individual reaction times and factor in all the other routes of added latency, the monitor, wifi (controller), computer/console, router and then out into cyberspace how fast do you need it to be to make a difference I'm wondering?

Seems like 100ms of network latency is good enough for most no?

Great find SPOOK.

I couldn't even tell what flipping shapes it was making until it went in to slow motion.

I've got to be honest though mate, I think setting a datum point for latency (for gaming purposes at least) might be a misnomer. The difference between any given latencies is the important metric.

If I play split screen or with two consoles linked "intefnally" via the home router, the results are always balanced whoever I play. If I play the same people online the difference is always pronounced. Now here's the interesting bit. If we play online with seperate consoles, in the same room, wirelessly to the same router, one always thrashes the other. Why?

My take on it is that only one console can be host, and on a fast fibre low latency connection (99 times out of 100) it will always be one of us, but only one. Therefore one suffers host compensation, the other doesn't.

My take on it is that only one console can be host, and on a fast fibre low latency connection (99 times out of 100) it will always be one of us, but only one. Therefore one suffers host compensation, the other doesn't.

So basically you are saying don't go for a fibre Super fast connection and stick with a Bog standard ADSL .

Thanks for ruining my future online play of Killzone Shadowfall if this is the case,I'm telling you now if i experience the same online woes as yourself mate and I'm guessing there is no reason that i won't then I'm going back to my basic ADSL connection if it effects online gaming in the way you say it does for you.

You sure its not just something wrong your end,there are plenty of people with Fibre on here that don't seem to have the same issues isn't there.

Oh looked what just dropped through the Letterbox��Cod Ghosts�..Playstation 4 version ,[pitty blockbusters has stopped taking in any trade ins as this based on reviews would have remained in the wrapper and traded.

Edited by time2die (Tue 05-Nov-13 11:37:18)

Yeah that was so exciting i could not contain myself and had a little Sex wee in my pants��..Not

Dr Spook your getting more and more weird as the weeks go by��What the heck does this have to do with Gaming or is it just this Old Fella just not seeing it.

Anyway Matey keep up the good work and keep posting these weird videos to keep your twin brother mrnelster happy

Yeah that was so exciting i could not contain myself and had a little Sex wee in my pants pull ups�

So basically you are saying don't go for a fibre Super fast connection and stick with a Bog standard ADSL .

No, because then you lose the benefits of high bandwidth.

But just be aware that if you have a very low latency like mine (9ms on average) you become heavily dependant on the quality of the matchmaking system. There are likely more and more low latency connections about, but the matchmaking system won't wait long enough to populate a whole game with them. Consolers don't have the options PC gamers have to see latency, just silly green bars.

Try reading all of this Magoo. I know what your attention span is like these days!

Thanks i got bored after the first paragraph i haven't got a week to read all that,besides the mrs is still at work and she needs to read it out because there are to many 3 letter words and over for my liking

Edited by time2die (Tue 05-Nov-13 17:33:43)

Pull ups���Aint got any of them .

Anymore giant sized videos we can download at your suggestion reference Killzone so i can use up all my bandwidth for 1 minute videos

Man nappies!



Silly bu*gger that he is.

Sigh. Yeah. I understand you Mr Nelster I really do. Shame some of these other simple minded folk don't and need yet another reminder.

Not naming any names eh Timey?

Well. I hope the more people who get faster fibre connections the better matchmaking gets - meaning MrNels and co. won't suffer so much and we can all see a level playing field, especially if I'm gonna get a PS4 meself one day.

Yeah. You still get a millisecond response time in the PC browser stats so that's one reason why it's SUPERIOR to all you consoleys.

Yeah. Check out my low latency skills dude. See how I can like get killed in 10 milliseconds flat! Woo. Takes at least twice that time on console.

Note to Timey who seems to miss the point everytime: the robot is super 133t. Geddit? He kick ur ass. N00b!

Note to Timey who seems to miss the point everytime: the robot is super 133t. Geddit? He kick ur ass. N00b!

Problem here Spook I'm not connecting to a online game with a Robot am i,just a load of dumb asses who think its amusing for me to listen to there head banging music blasting in the background,or there screaming kids and Barking dogs��.

unless you have 3/4 mates to get together then when i think about it why do i need a gaming headset for chat as a hardly ever chat to anyone because they are all so dam childish .

Well, you've gotta point. Can't argue with that.

In reply to a post by SPOOKish:

Yeah. You still get a millisecond response time in the PC browser stats so that's one reason why it's SUPERIOR to all you consoleys.

I can live with being a consoley (Toady thinks they come from a special place ). Lets just hope the guys picking up the Xbox One don't end up as consolees.

It never fills me with confidence when developers aren't allowed to talk openly. Skip to the end for the Gestapo tactics.

I have bt infinity 80mb and connect at the full profile but don't have such a low latency as mrnelster roughly a 28 ping so don't suffer from the issues described even when i am host.

In reply to a post by mrnelster:

It never fills me with confidence when developers aren't allowed to talk openly. Skip to the end for the Gestapo tactics.

Wow. That's a good long article isn't it? I should've followed your advice and skipped straight to the end. I'm stuck halfway down without the will to carry on. And I'm hungry! My (amply sized) belly is growling and wants to be fed despite the fact I fed it a little while ago.

Anyhow, I wonder how long is the single player campaign for COD:Ghosts then? Might be worth picking up if it's any good. I wouldn't wanna play online with it I don't think. Not unless they've made it more like Battlefield!

Non-disclosure agreements about unreleased hardware or software are common. When I worked as a software engineer, we had a prototype of the next generation hardware in our lab, disguised as the current generation. We were not allowed to say or do anything that even alluded to its existence, so release notes alluding to patches for the new version of the operating system it ran were out of the question. If someone came into the room who was not signed into the NDA, we were supposed to switch off immediately.

The NDA for that hardware was longer than my employment contract.

That may be, but how strictly it is enforced can change dependant on market conditions or a change in opinion from their target demographic. Right now Sony have the momentum and can sit back and let developers talk openly. Microsoft are no strangers to marketing and if they had something, there would surely be no hesitation in letting us all know about it.

The smart move would be to reinforce the claims they have made on future performance, so as to reassure those loyal to the Xbox brand. But that would require confidence in the developers to actually believe that potential. I don't get that feeling with any of the articles I have read to date.

As I say, it doesn't have to be a deal breaker. Playing your favourite exclusive at a lower resolution, is better than not playing it at all. But you do have to wonder how Microsoft is being advised on strategy, or indeed whether that advice has changed recently?

Especially with stuff like this flying about.

I dont take kindly to this kind of stuff, the issue is I dont think microsoft will be fined or anything, aside from the bad press they will get away with it. So they will try the same stunt again in future as well.

In the past we have also seen PC footage used to show off current gen games as well.

In reply to a post by Chrysalis:

I dont take kindly to this kind of stuff, the issue is I dont think microsoft will be fined or anything, aside from the bad press they will get away with it. So they will try the same stunt again in future as well.

In the past we have also seen PC footage used to show off current gen games as well.

Yeah Battlefield 3 on Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 being the prime example