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Do not use this company, i migrated to them on Friday 15th August on the max protected business package @�79.00 per month plus vat. I have tried to connect this morning only to be told by tech support that my account has been suspended due to high bandwidth useage, first of allbecause they suspect a virus and when i told them i knew about the useage they decide that its because my usage is detrimental to them. THIS form a company that actively promote the following in thier adverts...
Up to 8 Mbps* download speed
Up to 832 Kbps* upload speed
Unlimited downloads
Unlimited uploads
Unlimited UK based support via a Free-phone 0800 Number
Unlimited POP3 mail-boxes (@idnet.com)
Anti-spam & anti-virus email protection
Web-mail - access your email from any web browser
Unthrottled & unrestricted (i.e. no traffic shaping or port blocking)
One month contract
Free fast-track migration (within 3 working days with no downtime*)
Up to 8 free static IP address
Free dial-up account for back-up access (via an 0845 number)
No call charges
5GB web space
Priority given at the exchange over standard ADSL traffic
Enhanced support with money-back guarantee
SLA guaranteeing a response and fix within 8 hours or refund given
�79.00 per month excluding VAT (one month contract)
Does anyone know how of if i can take any kind of legal action as they clearly state UNLIMITED DOWNLOADS AND NO MANAGEMENT OR SHAPING
Edited by keefy (Tue 19-Aug-08 10:55:54)
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I suppose that is the downside of a monthly contract - it works both ways.
Did they breach the contract terms during your contracted term?
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After 4 days into a monthly contract they have disconnected my service, if that isn't a breach i am not sure what is !!!
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Register (or login) on our website and you will not see this ad.
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Check your Ts&Cs then to see what it says about detrimental usage and get some legal advice.
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Agreed - it is not clear, but the issue may be something like what the company feels is excessive amounts of traffic through the SMTP relay perhaps.
It may even just be a human error, and the persons broadband usage is fairly low - with so little detail to go on it is hard to know where everything stands. So legal advice is a good idea
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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By the mention of unlimited it is possible that the four days have been used to download 300GB of data and IDNet want to minimise their losses!
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The terms and conditions are pretty vague, however it has to be said that the md of Idnet has been on the phone, been incredibly pleasant refunded my money and i will get my months contract free of charge then migrate elsewhere. Shame it didn't work out but any users who want high b/w usage Idnet isn't the comany for you.
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Impossible to say, but seems they are letting them go
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband staff member. It may not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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How much did you download?
It all means nothing to anyone here unless we know that. You could be talking 50GB. 500GB. Or whatever the maximum possible in 4 days - without knowing your actual sync speed we can't know that either  .
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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An ISP can hardly complain if people use their unqualified unlimited service. I wish the ISPs that don't control the underlying costs were more up front with their package limitations. �79 for unlimited for a resold BT ADSL Max product can not be profitable.
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It will be up to a point, but that point has obviously been passed in this case.
Regards,
Steve
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From IdNet T &B Cs Acceptable use Policy:-
Engaging in any other activity that:
i. threatens the integrity and/or security of any network or computer system (including, but not limited to, transmission of worms, viruses and other malicious codes and accessing any device or data without proper authorisation);
ii. otherwise degrades or interferes with other users' use of a Service;
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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In reply to:
ii. otherwise degrades or interferes with other users' use of a Service;
That sounds like an unenforceable cop out (I know other ISPs use the same term). All usage of a shared resource impinges on other users.
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But surely can only degrade someone elses service IF they don't have the capacity/bandwidth and Idnet claim as of this morning that there are no problems in that department....
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approx 20 gb per day and sync speed was 8mb download speeds until yesterday were 800kbs in total
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I agree with you. I'm glad that IDNet have agreed to honour the contract for the month and will absorb the loss they will incur. It is their own fault for selling a product at an unsustainable price.
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That "800kbs in total" loses me a bit, but 4 days at 20GB if that's what you mean is high but not excessive in my opinion. That would be 600GB per month.
Whether that costs IdNet more than they want to pay is another question of course - which is exactly your complaint.
Certainly available cheaper with Entanet resellers on capped Home packages, and 570GB available on capped Office packages with the fast upload, still cheaper.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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Post deleted by Tacitus
Edited by Tacitus (Tue 19-Aug-08 12:46:04)
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Post deleted by keefy
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Post deleted by Tacitus
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"That "800kbs in total" loses me a bit,"
Sorry to clarify i was d/l from 2 different ftp's and was achieving speeds of approx 400kb/s from each one on the same line hth ;-)
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the insults I got .
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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You didn't get any Bob, so you can rest easy :-)
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No problem. It was a joke really, just that the DELETE sequence started with your post in reply to one of mine.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain.
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probably but thats a breach as its a unlimited product and at �79 I think they been particurly fussy, as that pricepoint should reduce contention ratio low enough to support that kind of usage.
Back to the same old point, if an isp isnt prepared to support heavy usage then they should only be selling metered/capped/limited products.
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obviously not on every customer, it would be profiteable shared out amongst a number of customers assuming many lose below the average usage required for profitability. 1:1 not profitable defenitly, but something doesnt need to be 1:1 to be unlimited use.
Its no worse than selling a ipstream product for under �12 which some isps do.
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so approx 600 gig for the month, thats not that high then. Consider entanet allow 330 gig for a fraction of the price and a 8meg line on ipstream if pushed is capable of well over 2TB. Idnet taking the micky here.
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Go with Zen's max office product around �80 a month or so and they really dont care how much you download on that or even if you max it out 24/7.
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In reply to:
so approx 600 gig for the month, thats not that high then
A level of use achieved by perhaps 0.1% of broadband users, 2 Mbits/s flat out 24/7. I can see why they got rid.
Entanet's 300 GB/month is of course off-peak so somewhat misleading as a comparison. Try
Office Unlimited 2 Mbps 256 kbps Unlimited Unlimited £64.61
or
Office 180 up to 8 Mbps up to 832 kbps 180 GB 390 GB £64.63
for a valid comparison (ADSL24).
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Is irellevant tho.
They selling a 'unlimited use' broadband product at a pricepoint that should be sustainable. 600gig on a 7150 profile is not massive and far from 24/7 downloading.
We dont know how much of his usage was peak or off peak but given the limitations of what you can download because of speed, and the short time he did it I expect the majority of it was off peak. One thing for sure is if they kicking everyone off who uses only a 5th of the potential of a line then they have a very good markup on that package even at ipstream prices.
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In reply to:
I expect the majority of it was off peak
I doubt it, unless he happened to have a weekend in his 4 days the Entanet packages have 10 hours off-peak and 14 of peak time (and include uploads) so the comparison with a 24/7 download only IDnet account is misleading.
He would need to be pulling 2M 24/24 which as you know is unsustainable use for �70/month or whatever, which is why Entanet would sell the equivalent unlimited Max for �168/month (ukfsn).
They can price their products at a sensible level for sensible users, if a leased line wannabe takes the mick then I have no problem with them getting booted as the product is then still available for the rational majority.
Just charge �10/month + 50p/GB and all this nonsense goes away.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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Without passing judgement eitherway, assuming a constant 2Mbit/s in very basic terms (ignoring when he might be using it) it could be costing IDNet something like �400 per month (before VAT).
ta,
P.
Edited by deleted (Thu 21-Aug-08 11:07:54)
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skyfire- they shouldn't be selling an unlimited product, at a premium price, which the user appears to only be using at full speed for the equilvalent of 6 hours a day.
assuming your figure of 400 quid is right, its quite interesting to see your employers flogging "unlimited" usage broadband for the same sort of money this punter was paying.
if ISPs arent prepared to fully offer a truely unlimited product then the word should never appear in their literature. shame so many of them employ marketing numpties to write their websites and then cry when people take them up on their word and cane the connection 24/7. so simple to avoid.
---
BT Broadband, roughly 4mbit sync
4KM line / 54dB atten / 5dB SNR / Netgear DG834GT
Edited by orly (Fri 22-Aug-08 00:22:02)
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I'll own up to an "interest" first- I'm an IDNet customer.
But nobody has yet pointed out that the product the OP bought was a business product. Whilst I agree that, ideally, unlimited should mean exactly that, I think IDNet have some justification in not expecting a business product to be used 24/7, or even close, for heavy downloading.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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As I stated, I was passing no judgement - I was just providing information as the poster I replied to (in threaded view) implied there was a 'mark-up' being made on the level of usage described.
regards,
Phil.
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in his case yes, if you telling me every isp has 100% of their customers turning a profit I will say no chance.
The point I am making for �70 a month the average user per customer required for a 'overall' profit is significantly higher then say �20 month.
So it depends when they using their traffic, and it depends on the proportion of heavy users, granted on the more expensive product its more likely users will be heavier but it also means the isp can support a high average. I remember another thread I was involved in and a price point around �70 or �80 (cant remember which) supported an average usage of 128 gig month on ipstream. However this argument is moot as the isp is in the wrong even if he used 2.4TB.
All these complaints wouldnt exist if ofcom put their foot down enforcing isps to honour what they sell or dont sell such packages.
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well the product supports an average usage over 120gig month, the OP had used 80gig at the point of cutoff, if they expect all their customers to use less than 80 gig then that is quite a markup. The markup is even larger if you consider that they wont all be using that much.
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Funnily enough, my feeling was the exact opposite
Why shouldn't businesses shuffle data between branches 24/7 ?
John.
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Depends on the size of the business... I'd expect those with a few sites and comparatively small amounts of data to move around during "office hours" to use an ISP- if they're big enough to have multiple sites and a need to shuffle gigabytes of data around 24/7 to be into leased lines...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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So Bill are you saying that i can only use my line during office hours or its just that you would only expect me too, maybe i should disconnect the router at 5.30pm every day? Maybe its because of people like you that the ISP'S manage to wriggle out of anything! If BMW advertised the speed of say an M3 was 155mph and you only managed to get 130mph out of it i guess you would say well never mind the speed limit is only 70mph in the UK anyway.
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Where did I say anything like that? I would assume that ISPs price their products on the basis of the expected usage profile (why do you think some define peak and offpeak periods?), and for a business product they'd expect the most demand to be around office hours, and bulk downloading not to form a significant proportion of the traffic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Assumption ..i think thats where you are going wrong, Idnet have a blatant advert that unlike most other isp's clearly say there is no FUP however they then do start to create if you download too much. I didn't sign up for a business account that said i had to d/l what i need to during office hours i signed up for a product that was clearly offering a truly unlimited service end of !!!!
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In reply to:
clearly say there is no FUP
Where?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB!
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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Exactly !!!!!!!
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Maybe if that's the case they should take a leaf out of Newnet's book and state clearly that the unlimited part only applies during normal business hours.
Regards,
Steve
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overnight backups would be just one reason for businesses to have heavy off-peak use, also if they trade a lot with other time zones eg West Coast USA or East Asia there will be a steady flow of inbound email around the clock.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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For the size business that uses an ISP rather than its own internet links, I doubt that even backup and email runs to gigabytes/day...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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I've seen people trying to do full backups every night from an office server to a remote site. That's the contents of the hard drive daily. Bad idea.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade. |
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Well, I must admit that I was assuming a bit of sense and only incremental backups being performed over ADSL... 
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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This post looks fun - can I join in? 
A while back I had my line restricted temporarily for going over the 'limit' on an unlimited connection - but at least in my case the ISP clearly linked to their FUP on every related page.
I agree with you - no matter what the circumstances (business/personal/peak/off-peak), if a FUP was not made clear, they have no right causing problems over bandwidth. I know I'd be pretty p***ed off if I had specifically signed up because it was truly unlimited, yet ended up being restricted in some way.
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Moving more than you have to does seem pretty daft, to say the least... but unlimited means unlimited. In any other market, products have to be unambiguously advertised (even my 'unlimited' texts on my phone contract are actually advertised in the small print as '3000 per month'), yet ISPs seem to get away with this con all the time.
I fully agree with the previous comments about Ofcom putting their foot down and fixing this [censored] awful mess once and for all.
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Not sure who I'm replying to here, if anyone. Just making the following points :-
It is likely that the OP would have stated in his post that he had this legitimate reason for the usage from Friday to Monday inclusive, even if it was a once-off to take a full initial backup, these being necessary quite frequently as well as incremental ones anyway.
Wasn't the problem his downloads though? Maybe he needed to download his earlier backups and incremental data created using his previous ISP, and kept screwing up the recovery onto his disc system.
If that were the case IDNet would indeed be in breach of contract. But I think it somewhat unlikely.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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Apart from one mention of ftp, the OP has been a bit coy about what sort of data was being downloaded, so it's impossible to judge the rights and wrongs on that basis
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In actual fact what they do say on the product in question is:-
"Unthrottled & unrestricted (i.e. no traffic shaping or port blocking)".
That technically means that there are or may be other throttles or restrictions imposed.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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It is also in the FAQs that uploads are not counted even where there are usage allowances.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain. |
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The OP didn't mention uploads 
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB! |
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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In reply to:
because it was truly unlimited
doesn't exist, AFAIK.
Phil
MaxDSL - goes as fast as it can and doesn't read the line checker first.
MaxDSL diagnostics
Are your kids pirates ? Limewire, Bearshare, Kazaa, BitTorrent, eMule are all tools of the trade.
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I appreciate that 'unlimited' doesn't actually exist in the real world... but that's not what the ISPs would have you believe when trying to rope punters into long, expensive contracts.
It should do exactly what it says on the tin. 'Should' being the key word. A shame really... it seems there are a LOT of bitter customers out there...
-----
Glad to not have the same problems as OP, but sympathetic nonetheless.
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In reply to:
doesn't exist, AFAIK.
Oh, it exists alright... if you're prepared to pay for it.
And that, I think, is the point that many heavy downloaders don't seem to grasp...
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bill
[email protected]
Be Who You Are and Say What You Feel Because Those Who Mind Don't Matter and Those Who Matter Don't Mind.
Be wary of PDBB!
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The author of the above post is a thinkbroadband moderator but it does not constitute an official statement on behalf of thinkbroadband.
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We do - we're a 24/7 call centre with remote offices all connected on ADSL lines that maintain constant VPN connections to the central office.
The VPN connections transfer a fair bit of data round the clock!
Adam
UKFSN HOME 30
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On sign up, a customer would read this in the T&Cs:
Acceptable Use Policy
You also agree to abide by the rules and guidelines set out in the IDNet Acceptable Use Policy (as available and amended from time to time)
The AUP is available on a link from the same page as the T&Cs.
I don't like the use of the term unlimited either, and with WBC coming, I hope it will be dropped as the potential for even larger bandwidth usage is significant. However, I do feel that the information was there to be read by the OP. I know I read both the T&Cs and the AUP before signing up myself.
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A lot of bitter customers ?Almost as many people wanting a lunch they don't pay full price for
Its somewhat naive to believe that the removal of the 'unlimited' from advertising will somehow solve the problem of people at the top end of the broadband downloading competition, and give larger limits. It will not.
All that will happen is that hard caps will be put on the download limits, and everyone over that will be throttled or charged (the 1% who go over the top) and the other 99% of us won't notice or care.
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In reply to:
All that will happen is that hard caps will be put on the download limits, and everyone over that will be throttled or charged (the 1% who go over the top) and the other 99% of us won't notice or care.
Exactly. Nobody can possibly complain about that.
Unlimited should mean what it says, especially on a premium-priced product, even if unlimited use of it would make a huge loss for the ISP. That is their problem for an invalid pricing structure.
Was it free or just cheap flights if you bought a Hoover vacuum cleaner? That cost Hoover millions, but there was no way they could get out of the contracts with the customers. So why should OfCom and the ASA let ISPs?
IDNet's only get-out is the one-line sub-clause in their T & Cs banning use that adversely affects other users. I doubt if the OP's usage did that! That would only come about if many users did it at roughly the same time.
Bob: BT Broadband >> Prodigynet >> Newnet Lite.
Purple Cloud for email, web space and domain.
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some isps have a cap and still throttle so I dont think 99% will stop moaning if thats the case. It would depend on how low the cap is set and if they throttled whilst within the cap.
For a �15 broadband product that has a burst speed of 8mbit on ipstream I would call a 10 gig usage limit reasonable providing there is no form of protocl based traffic shaping whatsoever and the customer can use that 10 gig how they pleased.
An isp can apply in cap one of 2 ways, either set a cap that is profiteable (would be a very low cap), or set a cap that isnt profitable if fully utilised but is profiteable on an overall basis with lighter users subsidising it. The former is typical on PAYG type products.
Personally I find zens products better than BTs even tho they higher priced and appear to be lower capped, when in fact zens 50gig cap beats BTs 40gig FUP'd unlimited product. Lower quality capped products such as entanets adsl1 packages are still better than fake unlimited products as you know your limits with no protocol based shaping.
aaisps products are probably the best available on ipstream, their peak caps are premium priced but dont suffer congestion and again with no protocol based shaping, their off peak is very generous. So it is entirely possible to offer a capped product and have a happy customer base, the problem is it requires a bit too much honesty for some exec's liking. I have no problem with unlimited products as long as the isp honours them, if someone downloads 2tb then they should be prepared to write of the loss.
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correct, ukonline have that same clause as well, its unlimited but they say they will take action if other customers are affected by high usage. Luckily for ukonline customers that clause to have not be needed to come into affect.
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